A very serious thread about race relations

[Dogmaphobe]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

 

[sealybobo]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do! I'm so sick of hearing that we have yet to have the national discussion.

It's like this. Do the Jews and Germans need to rehash WW2? What's your advice to them? Get over it and move on.

One thing we have to deal with is whites who won't hire blacks. We can talk all we want if whites won't hire blacks we have a problem talking won't solve.

Anyways, let's stop talking about race. Where do you live? If it's a poverty place move. Do you take school seriously?

Are things really that bad? What are your personal experiences? Most of us only see race on the news and here. In our real lives things are normal.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

I doubt that you have read ANY history books. You are just a simpleton forever stuck in the acting-out phase in your life.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

"You guys"? I am an individual who thinks as an individual, and expresses my opinions as an individual.

I realize that is an alien concept to you, but you should try it some time. .

...and yet, you parrot the same exact same talking points as thousands of other old white men who consider themselves to be "above" racism, but think that everything was just fine back before black people started whining about how much it sucks for them.

You're not a unique snowflake. I've heard your arguments before - in fact, I've read them in history books.

I doubt that you have read ANY history books. You are just a simpleton forever stuck in the acting-out phase in your life.

Blah, blah blah. You've already proven your ability to get flustered and start lashing out with insults. We're all so impressed.

I'm open to the possibility that my conclusions are false. But you haven't yet given me any reason to believe that they are.

 

[Markle]

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

But this was different? How?

 

[ricechickie]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

Yeah, I am interested. I don't know how to implement something on a wide scale. I only know what I've tried to do:

1. Meet many different kinds of people, make friends, listen to their experiences.

2. Look for common ground over differences.

3. Be a good neighbor.

4. Assume the best in individuals until they prove you wrong.

5. Stop putting expectations on people based on their race, religion, sexuality....

 

[Markle]

I agree Marty, I had a class on this and so many things that we do without knowing it are in the subconscious part of the brain...
I once saw a show on Donahue in the early 90's I think..
And their were families of the skin heads ( I think they called themselves ) anyway, little children screaming hate to anyone not white, gays, ect while holding up bibles while their dumb ass parents cheered them on.

The parents Donahue interviewed were uneducated and dumb as a doorknob.

You mean like this? A group who supported petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama.

 

[ricechickie]

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

Yes, agreed, but there should be a Step One for each side of this argument. That's how effective communication works. For example, Step One could be (a) to reject any notion that criticism of blacks is racist on its face, AND (b) an admission that old fashioned, ignorant, bigoted racism does indeed still exist and must be culturally eradicated.

Those are the biggest impediments I see in this, among others.
.

Criticism of black individuals isn't racist. Criticism of the black community might not be meant as racist, but it does not help anyone. If someone identifies with a group, and that group is criticized en masse, they are going to be defensive.

As a woman, if I hear, "Women have a real problem with......" I am not going to take it kindly.

Works (or should I say, doesn't work) for political affiliation as well.

 

[ricechickie]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I don't mean to make a trite response. But, respect has to be earned.

And it is earned by proving we deserve it. Showing we've worked hard to educate ourselves, maintaining and doing a good job, showing that we are honest and trustworthy, treating others with respect, and so on. There is no magic to it.

Except, that simply "demanding" respect, or acting tough, is stupid; it doesn't work. And it shouldn't. Again: respect has to be earned. Then, respect will be given, and it will be genuine.

I disagree. You don't have to feel respect for a person, but everyone you encounter should be treated with a minimum standard of decency. Respect is part of that.

 

[Markle]

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing..

 

[petro]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

Respect is never gained through accusations and blame.

 

[Markle]

Are you guys under the impression that everything was hunky-dory with race in this country before everyone started talking about it?

Hunky-dory? Nope.

But it was far better prior to petulant former President Barack Hussein took office than when he left. Worst since the 60's.

Shameful although that was one of his goals.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Are you guys under the impression that everything was hunky-dory with race in this country before everyone started talking about it?

Hunky-dory? Nope.

But it was far better prior to petulant former President Barack Hussein took office than when he left. Worst since the 60's.

Shameful although that was one of his goals.

You don't interact with black people very often, do you?

 

[Coyote]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

It may be that there is a desire for improved race relations under the surface for some, I just don't see it.

I don't see a connection between these behaviors and anything that could be construed as constructive.
.

Maybe when people stop broad brushing "the other"....there will be improvement. When we realize we can sit down, share a meal, have a conversation about our kids...and realize we're not so different after all. It comes down to basic respect for each other.

I heard this guy on Ted Talks I think....really impressive....
A black man's quixotic quest to quell the racism of the KKK, one robe at a time

 

[Zander]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

 

[Zander]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

MmmmHmmm

Now let's all sing Kumbya!!

(and pray for an alien invasion!)

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

MmmmHmmm

Now let's all sing Kumbya!!

(and pray for an alien invasion!)

Yeah, it'll never happen. That's the point.

 

[Zander]

Human race = important
White race, black race, etc., = distraction.

It may take an Alien invasion for us to realize we're all in this together.....

People will only "realize" that we're all in this together until people start treating other people like we're all in this together.

MmmmHmmm

Now let's all sing Kumbya!!

(and pray for an alien invasion!)

Yeah, it'll never happen. That's the point.

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time brother, one bite at a time.