Abolish the Grand Jury

[blackhawk]

What would you replace it with?

That depends on what you want to accomplish.





"The Federal Rules strip grand jurors of their rightful control over the recordings of grand jury testimony, notes, and "any transcript prepared from those notes." Rule 6(e) places all grand jury transcripts in the hands of the U.S. Attorneys Office, giving an awesome power to the government never known under the common law."


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I would want to make sure that there is sufficient evidence legally gathered to justify indicting someone and sending them on to a jury trial.

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


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That really doesn't answer my question of what you want to replace it with. If you want to abolish the Grand Jury fine then what?

 

[Contumacious]

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


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Invalid assumption based in your bigotry!

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"But as Stalin said about elections, it does not matter how people vote, it is those who count the votes who decide elections. Well this is the same nonsense. The rules have been inverted so ONLY the government has a right to indict anyone and they ALWAYS protect their own. This type of corruption should be expected. The Grand Jury is a joke when there is secret proceedings and no right to present both sides so the Grand Jury can be deaf, dumb, and blind. The Grand Jury was originally the people standing between the people and the government. To protect government, they simply changed the rule to ensure the government need not tell the Grand Jury the truth. What Stalin said about elections applies to Grand Juries. The Government can indeed indict a ham sandwich. They mean nothing if not even less."

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[Roadrunner]

What would you replace it with?

That depends on what you want to accomplish.





"The Federal Rules strip grand jurors of their rightful control over the recordings of grand jury testimony, notes, and "any transcript prepared from those notes." Rule 6(e) places all grand jury transcripts in the hands of the U.S. Attorneys Office, giving an awesome power to the government never known under the common law."


.

I would want to make sure that there is sufficient evidence legally gathered to justify indicting someone and sending them on to a jury trial.

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


.

The "exemption"????

How many juries and grand juries have you served on to assert "Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV."?

 

[Contumacious]

What would you replace it with?

That depends on what you want to accomplish.





"The Federal Rules strip grand jurors of their rightful control over the recordings of grand jury testimony, notes, and "any transcript prepared from those notes." Rule 6(e) places all grand jury transcripts in the hands of the U.S. Attorneys Office, giving an awesome power to the government never known under the common law."


.

I would want to make sure that there is sufficient evidence legally gathered to justify indicting someone and sending them on to a jury trial.

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


.

That really doesn't answer my question of what you want to replace it with. If you want to abolish the Grand Jury fine then what?

As the system is set up at this time , people are on their own , at the mercy of a bureaucrats. The grand jury system is merely a fraud..

There are no silver bullets.

Americans must again think and act as free people or we are doomed.

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[Contumacious]

What would you replace it with?

That depends on what you want to accomplish.





"The Federal Rules strip grand jurors of their rightful control over the recordings of grand jury testimony, notes, and "any transcript prepared from those notes." Rule 6(e) places all grand jury transcripts in the hands of the U.S. Attorneys Office, giving an awesome power to the government never known under the common law."


.

I would want to make sure that there is sufficient evidence legally gathered to justify indicting someone and sending them on to a jury trial.

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


.

The "exemption"????

How many juries and grand juries have you served on to assert "Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV."?

Excuse the fuck out of me dingle berry


How many fucking people do you know that would ask a Prosecutor if he was REALLY indicting pursuant to a valid law?

How many would demand to conduct their OWN investigation in order to to satisfy themselves that their fellow American is not going to irreparably injured by a bullshit indictment?!?!?!?!?!!?!?


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[Contumacious]

What would you replace it with?

That depends on what you want to accomplish.





"The Federal Rules strip grand jurors of their rightful control over the recordings of grand jury testimony, notes, and "any transcript prepared from those notes." Rule 6(e) places all grand jury transcripts in the hands of the U.S. Attorneys Office, giving an awesome power to the government never known under the common law."


.

I would want to make sure that there is sufficient evidence legally gathered to justify indicting someone and sending them on to a jury trial.

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


.

The "exemption"????

How many juries and grand juries have you served on to assert "Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV."?

Stop watching Oprah re-runs and read the literature that is out there.

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[percysunshine]

Grand Juries are a useful check in the system.

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It is obvious that all Grand Juries should be replaced by polls on USMB. It is the only way by which justice will ever be served.

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What 's the fucking difference?


/

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The difference is Grand Juries serve as a check in the system. They are not a guilt/innocence determination body, but a stop light process...green/yellow/red determination. The jurors are local, so if they screw up, the problem stays local.

The downside to not having a stop light system is that everything goes to a trial jury. On the surface, that does not seem to be a big issue, until one looks at the numbers. If every accusation, no matter how trivial, went to trial, there would be a docket which would go on for years before legitimate disputes and crimes would be heard. Which would raise due process issues.

The 6th and 14th amendments to the Constitution shape why a Grand Jury system exists in the first place.

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[Contumacious]

Grand Juries are a useful check in the system.

.

It is obvious that all Grand Juries should be replaced by polls on USMB. It is the only way by which justice will ever be served.

.

What 's the fucking difference?


/

.


The difference is Grand Juries serve as a check in the system.

That is the THEORY. It hasn't worked in that manner for a long long time.

They are not a guilt/innocence determination body, but a stop light process...

True. But Grand Jurors must be well informed individuals who are not dependent upon the government for their sustenance. People who are inquisitive and willing to question authority.




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[Katzndogz]

If the grand jury wasn't making the determination of sufficiency of evidence it would be made by a single judge.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

If the grand jury wasn't making the determination of sufficiency of evidence it would be made by a single judge.

I think they should just name me Grand Inquistor .

Or better yet, just go Judge Dredd style.I'll decide guilt and punishment on the fly.

 

[Roadrunner]

What would you replace it with?

That depends on what you want to accomplish.





"The Federal Rules strip grand jurors of their rightful control over the recordings of grand jury testimony, notes, and "any transcript prepared from those notes." Rule 6(e) places all grand jury transcripts in the hands of the U.S. Attorneys Office, giving an awesome power to the government never known under the common law."


.

I would want to make sure that there is sufficient evidence legally gathered to justify indicting someone and sending them on to a jury trial.

If true you are the exemption.

Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV.

Most Grand Jurors are government employees and or parasites dependent of government benefits. They are not going to question anything.


.

The "exemption"????

How many juries and grand juries have you served on to assert "Most Grand Jurors don't give a shit and want to rush home to watch TV."?

Stop watching Oprah re-runs and read the literature that is out there.

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OPRAH!!!

Give me a fuckin' break.

And admit you do not know the difference between exemption and exception.

 

[Contumacious]

If the grand jury wasn't making the determination of sufficiency of evidence it would be made by a single judge.

Like I said the system must be reformed.

Without OBJECTIVE laws corruption and injustice will continue.

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[SwimExpert]

WHAT IF....

Indictment rates are so high, because prosecutors don't bother taking an issue before a grand jury until they have enough evidence to demonstrate probable cause to justify the charges?

What if the grand jury is such an effective deterrent to frivolous charges prosecutors don't even dare waste their time?

 

[BlackSand]

If the grand jury wasn't making the determination of sufficiency of evidence it would be made by a single judge.

Like I said the system must be reformed.

Without OBJECTIVE laws corruption and injustice will continue.

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You only said what you said because you disagreed with the decisions the Grand Jury made.

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[elektra]

If the grand jury wasn't making the determination of sufficiency of evidence it would be made by a single judge.

Like I said the system must be reformed.

Without OBJECTIVE laws corruption and injustice will continue.

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I know I am jumping in maybe with the wrong comment, but this ain't about law, it's pure hate and politics, Obama is a race baiting ass with the newspapers and television on his sude

 

[percysunshine]

Grand Juries are a useful check in the system.

.

It is obvious that all Grand Juries should be replaced by polls on USMB. It is the only way by which justice will ever be served.

.

What 's the fucking difference?


/

.


The difference is Grand Juries serve as a check in the system.

That is the THEORY. It hasn't worked in that manner for a long long time.

They are not a guilt/innocence determination body, but a stop light process...

True. But Grand Jurors must be well informed individuals who are not dependent upon the government for their sustenance. People who are inquisitive and willing to question authority.




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I would propose that it depends on the local political environment. The local voters get what they vote for.

There is an old joke ... in Texas, a ham sandwich can get indicted by a Grand Jury. Take arch conservative of yore, Tom Delay. He was green light indicted for campaign finance fraud by a special hand picked GJ, and had his political career ruined. Several years later, he was cleared of all charges by a real jury.

Of course, the voters in Texas elect the people who select the Grand Jurors.

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[The2ndAmendment]

No. Abolish the Scientific Jury Selection System, that lets the Government cherry pick jurors that will act in the interest of the government (indict innocents citizens and not-indict guilty government agents).

How long are you going to ignore this post OP?

 

[Contumacious]

No. Abolish the Scientific Jury Selection System, that lets the Government cherry pick jurors that will act in the interest of the government (indict innocents citizens and not-indict guilty government agents).

That is the job of Constitutional Grand Jurors. Stand between the government and the people and ascertain that the government truly has a criminal case.

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[The2ndAmendment]

No. Abolish the Scientific Jury Selection System, that lets the Government cherry pick jurors that will act in the interest of the government (indict innocents citizens and not-indict guilty government agents).

That is the job of Constitutional Grand Jurors. Stand between the government and the people and ascertain that the government truly has a criminal case.

.

An admitted pro-constitution juror is eliminated by the "scientific" jury "selection" system. They should just randomly call 12 jurors from the voting list and make them take a simple arithmetic and vocabulary test to weed out retards.

 

[Contumacious]

No. Abolish the Scientific Jury Selection System, that lets the Government cherry pick jurors that will act in the interest of the government (indict innocents citizens and not-indict guilty government agents).

That is the job of Constitutional Grand Jurors. Stand between the government and the people and ascertain that the government truly has a criminal case.

.

An admitted pro-constitution juror is eliminated by the "scientific" jury "selection" system. They should just randomly call 12 jurors from the voting list and make them take a simple arithmetic and vocabulary test to weed out retards.

No, it wouldn't'

A Grand Juror should not be a government employee or someone who is dependent on government handouts. Hawaii has a different system because the Grand Jury can obtain Legal Advise from their own independent attorney ---not the prosecutor.


That would be good idea if the attorney panels is composed of attorneys who are not government supremacists or theocrats.

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