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You are citing only half of Trump's promise of a wall. When he asked who will pay for the wall, what did you shout? And when he asked again, what did you shout even louder? And when, like an old time sawdust floored tent preacher, he primed you a third time, what did you screech at the top of your lungs? THAT's the half of the promise you seem to now think is not worth remembering...the lie part!Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
I find you sympathetic, practical. And I sort of agree with you. But if it was “only” money, no it would already be in place. US sends Marsquake equipment cross the solar system - if a wall was an urgent matter money would be there?Is this really about money?Trump can get Mexico to pay for it by implementing a tax on "remittances" when foreigners send money out of the US to their home country. We need that money spent here creating jobs and paying taxes. So a small tax can be easily justified. It won't only pay for the wall, but for foreign aid as well.Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
He promised Mexico would pay for it . Y’all keep ignoring that major fact .
Screw it, let the whole damn world pay for it, by a fee in visas. $30.00 per head times 45 million a year, it wouldn't take long to pay for all border security.
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Shit don't build itself. The fees can be used to fund an effective visa tracking system as well. That would address the other 40% of illegals.
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kyzr, I think you are being led down the garden path with all these 'possible' proposals of payments in dribbles. If I borrow $5000 from you and pay you back $5.00 a week, you'll hardly notice the repayment of the bundle you put down.You are citing only half of Trump's promise of a wall. When he asked who will pay for the wall, what did you shout? And when he asked again, what did you shout even louder? And when, like an old time sawdust floored tent preacher, he primed you a third time, what did you screech at the top of your lungs? THAT's the half of the promise you seem to now think is not worth remembering...the lie part!Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
The game isn't over until its over. Trump can still make Mexico pay for the wall by adding a tax on "remittances" for money sent out of the US to other countries. That tax could pay for the wall and cover all foreign aid. Why won't they add that tax and save tons of money? We just gave Mexico $10b to cover stopping and holding illegals. We need to get more cost conscious.
That wall - tearing it down, symbolically ended the Cold War. You know I am right. The wall it self was not more than a local Phenomena. Utterly disgraceful and tragic. But what it represented was much more.Alright.Well, it’s a matter of definition now, isn’t it? This wall was built by a communist dictatorship. In to the west or out from the east?Purpose of the Berlin Wall was to keep people out. Their leaders told them so.
How many were sneaking in versus sneaking out?
It’s pretty obvious today. But no free democratic country was advocating for that wall to be built.
It was “sold” as a protective measure by those who built it.
Point here is that e v e n if a wall serve a purpose you have to take in to account the signal it sends. And then weight it’s practical value to that.
It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
Tell that to the E. Germans who died trying to cross it. Walls work, commies, not so much.
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Yeah... but doesn’t your reasoning lead to a more surgical effort?That wall - tearing it down, symbolically ended the Cold War. You know I am right. The wall it self was not more than a local Phenomena. Utterly disgraceful and tragic. But what it represented was much more.Alright.Well, it’s a matter of definition now, isn’t it? This wall was built by a communist dictatorship. In to the west or out from the east?
It’s pretty obvious today. But no free democratic country was advocating for that wall to be built.
It was “sold” as a protective measure by those who built it.
Point here is that e v e n if a wall serve a purpose you have to take in to account the signal it sends. And then weight it’s practical value to that.
It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
Tell that to the E. Germans who died trying to cross it. Walls work, commies, not so much.
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I think the word you're looking for is "deterrent", where we've built adequate barriers, traffic has been cut by as much as 95%. It is an effective "deterrent" period end of story.
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No idea about those numbers - but let’s say it does. Then perhaps the wall should be constructed. But it seems right now to be very exaggerated (the stress, like n o w before Christmas). Right now it seems to be more of a symbol than that of practical value.Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
Ain't gonna stop athletic tunnelers and swimmers.
The coyotes who help migrants cross into remote areas of Arizona and Texas will starting charging $5000 to go through a tunnel instead of crossing a desert. And the the drug cartels will build the tunnels because they need them to move drugs into the U.S.
A better solution would be something along the lines of the Marshall Plan: Instead of spending billions to build "steel slats" as Duh Donald now calls it, use the money to get crime and the cartels under control IN country, in Central America. Fucking A, if we can invade Iraq and Afghanistan, we can sure as hell send troops into Honduras and Guatemala and help the people of those countries STAY home instead of fleeing crime and coercion and worse.
A slat wall and enforcing e-verify would be cheaper than a Marshal Plan. We want good jobs here, not in Guatemala and Honduras. Besides, who wants the "plato o plomo" decision when that much largess is at stake. I'm a "good fences make good neighbors" kind of guy.
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You don't understand just how much the final cost of the wall is going to be.
It's estimated for a final cost up to $70B according to ...Fox Noise: Trump's border wall -- how much it will actually cost according to a statistician
And guess what idiot? The misery and murders in Central America will continue and expand and then guess who's going to have to go in and fix it because they're going to start using tunnels and boats to get here?
You have never known desperation and fear for your life, you lily-livered pussy.
So you think a fucking fence is going to fix the problem.
.
.
.
So you're admitting the wall will work and force the illegals to use alternative methods to try to get here. BTW even the 70 billion is less than illegals are costing us every year.
.
kyzr, I think you are being led down the garden path with all these 'possible' proposals of payments in dribbles. If I borrow $5000 from you and pay you back $5.00 a week, you'll hardly notice the repayment of the bundle you put down.You are citing only half of Trump's promise of a wall. When he asked who will pay for the wall, what did you shout? And when he asked again, what did you shout even louder? And when, like an old time sawdust floored tent preacher, he primed you a third time, what did you screech at the top of your lungs? THAT's the half of the promise you seem to now think is not worth remembering...the lie part!Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
The game isn't over until its over. Trump can still make Mexico pay for the wall by adding a tax on "remittances" for money sent out of the US to other countries. That tax could pay for the wall and cover all foreign aid. Why won't they add that tax and save tons of money? We just gave Mexico $10b to cover stopping and holding illegals. We need to get more cost conscious.
I find you sympathetic, practical. And I sort of agree with you. But if it was “only” money, no it would already be in place. US sends Marsquake equipment cross the solar system - if a wall was an urgent matter money would be there?Is this really about money?Trump can get Mexico to pay for it by implementing a tax on "remittances" when foreigners send money out of the US to their home country. We need that money spent here creating jobs and paying taxes. So a small tax can be easily justified. It won't only pay for the wall, but for foreign aid as well.He promised Mexico would pay for it . Y’all keep ignoring that major fact .
Screw it, let the whole damn world pay for it, by a fee in visas. $30.00 per head times 45 million a year, it wouldn't take long to pay for all border security.
.
Shit don't build itself. The fees can be used to fund an effective visa tracking system as well. That would address the other 40% of illegals.
.
Europe has no plan for immigration, I... well subject for another thread maybe.No idea about those numbers - but let’s say it does. Then perhaps the wall should be constructed. But it seems right now to be very exaggerated (the stress, like n o w before Christmas). Right now it seems to be more of a symbol than that of practical value.Ain't gonna stop athletic tunnelers and swimmers.
The coyotes who help migrants cross into remote areas of Arizona and Texas will starting charging $5000 to go through a tunnel instead of crossing a desert. And the the drug cartels will build the tunnels because they need them to move drugs into the U.S.
A better solution would be something along the lines of the Marshall Plan: Instead of spending billions to build "steel slats" as Duh Donald now calls it, use the money to get crime and the cartels under control IN country, in Central America. Fucking A, if we can invade Iraq and Afghanistan, we can sure as hell send troops into Honduras and Guatemala and help the people of those countries STAY home instead of fleeing crime and coercion and worse.
A slat wall and enforcing e-verify would be cheaper than a Marshal Plan. We want good jobs here, not in Guatemala and Honduras. Besides, who wants the "plato o plomo" decision when that much largess is at stake. I'm a "good fences make good neighbors" kind of guy.
You don't understand just how much the final cost of the wall is going to be.
It's estimated for a final cost up to $70B according to ...Fox Noise: Trump's border wall -- how much it will actually cost according to a statistician
And guess what idiot? The misery and murders in Central America will continue and expand and then guess who's going to have to go in and fix it because they're going to start using tunnels and boats to get here?
You have never known desperation and fear for your life, you lily-livered pussy.
So you think a fucking fence is going to fix the problem.
.
.
.
So you're admitting the wall will work and force the illegals to use alternative methods to try to get here. BTW even the 70 billion is less than illegals are costing us every year.
.
All expenditures, federal, State and local total almost 140 billion a year. Illegals are almost twice as likely to us the social safety net as citizens or legal immigrants. You can't have open borders and huge social programs at the same time. Europe is learning that lesson the hard way and we're starting to. Of course the commies never include the cost to the country when calculating the cost of the wall. That doesn't take into account the human costs.
.
Yeah... but doesn’t your reasoning lead to a more surgical effort?That wall - tearing it down, symbolically ended the Cold War. You know I am right. The wall it self was not more than a local Phenomena. Utterly disgraceful and tragic. But what it represented was much more.Alright.It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
Tell that to the E. Germans who died trying to cross it. Walls work, commies, not so much.
.
I think the word you're looking for is "deterrent", where we've built adequate barriers, traffic has been cut by as much as 95%. It is an effective "deterrent" period end of story.
.
"Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
Illegals are KILLING and RAPING thousands of Americans. We can build a wall to keep them out or carpet bomb them back to the stone age, which would you prefer?
They are not.
That is a lie.
Perpetrators of Sexual Violence: Statistics | RAINN
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.
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Europe has no plan for immigration, I... well subject for another thread maybe.No idea about those numbers - but let’s say it does. Then perhaps the wall should be constructed. But it seems right now to be very exaggerated (the stress, like n o w before Christmas). Right now it seems to be more of a symbol than that of practical value.A slat wall and enforcing e-verify would be cheaper than a Marshal Plan. We want good jobs here, not in Guatemala and Honduras. Besides, who wants the "plato o plomo" decision when that much largess is at stake. I'm a "good fences make good neighbors" kind of guy.
You don't understand just how much the final cost of the wall is going to be.
It's estimated for a final cost up to $70B according to ...Fox Noise: Trump's border wall -- how much it will actually cost according to a statistician
And guess what idiot? The misery and murders in Central America will continue and expand and then guess who's going to have to go in and fix it because they're going to start using tunnels and boats to get here?
You have never known desperation and fear for your life, you lily-livered pussy.
So you think a fucking fence is going to fix the problem.
.
.
.
So you're admitting the wall will work and force the illegals to use alternative methods to try to get here. BTW even the 70 billion is less than illegals are costing us every year.
.
All expenditures, federal, State and local total almost 140 billion a year. Illegals are almost twice as likely to us the social safety net as citizens or legal immigrants. You can't have open borders and huge social programs at the same time. Europe is learning that lesson the hard way and we're starting to. Of course the commies never include the cost to the country when calculating the cost of the wall. That doesn't take into account the human costs.
.
But the focus on the concept of a wall? Prone to fail, the longer the worse. Why not enforce strong points where needed? Keep flexible? This wall is gaining too much attention duento it’s symbolic value.
The commies won't fund the manpower to do that either. Their border security talk is all bullshit, they have no interest in securing the border. Personally I don't think you have a clue what it takes to secure a 2000 mile border. I'm assuming you have no military experience.
That's bullshit. Your "statistician" is a college professor who frequently appears on PBS, CBS, the BBC and other leftwing broadcasters. She's a hack, in other words. And how does a degree in statistics make you qualified to determine the cost of a construction project?Trump promised us a wall, and he knows how important it is to keep voters motivated. DHS wants the wall. In video clips we see how it does stop all but the most athletic climbers. If you saw the 6,000 member caravans going to Tijuana to get into the US any way they can, you'd know that the new wall is really needed. We can't afford open borders.
Ain't gonna stop athletic tunnelers and swimmers.
The coyotes who help migrants cross into remote areas of Arizona and Texas will starting charging $5000 to go through a tunnel instead of crossing a desert. And the the drug cartels will build the tunnels because they need them to move drugs into the U.S.
A better solution would be something along the lines of the Marshall Plan: Instead of spending billions to build "steel slats" as Duh Donald now calls it, use the money to get crime and the cartels under control IN country, in Central America. Fucking A, if we can invade Iraq and Afghanistan, we can sure as hell send troops into Honduras and Guatemala and help the people of those countries STAY home instead of fleeing crime and coercion and worse.
A slat wall and enforcing e-verify would be cheaper than a Marshal Plan. We want good jobs here, not in Guatemala and Honduras. Besides, who wants the "plato o plomo" decision when that much largess is at stake. I'm a "good fences make good neighbors" kind of guy.
You don't understand just how much the final cost of the wall is going to be.
It's estimated for a final cost up to $70B according to ...Fox Noise: Trump's border wall -- how much it will actually cost according to a statistician
And guess what idiot? The misery and murders in Central America will continue and expand and then guess who's going to have to go in and fix it because they're going to start using tunnels and boats to get here?
You have never known desperation and fear for your life, you lily-livered pussy.
So you think a fucking fence is going to fix the problem.
.
.
.
The commies won't fund the manpower to do that either. Their border security talk is all bullshit, they have no interest in securing the border. Personally I don't think you have a clue what it takes to secure a 2000 mile border. I'm assuming you have no military experience.
If the border fence was a Toll fence the Dems would have built it already.
Spare yourself further embarrassment by avoiding more of you idiotic posts.I don’t have the energy to over-repeat myself. Please, the Berlin Wall had only local impact. It surrounded West Berlin. We can agree of its purpose, however that was not the open and official stand point of those who built it.Alright.Well, it’s a matter of definition now, isn’t it? This wall was built by a communist dictatorship. In to the west or out from the east?Purpose of the Berlin Wall was to keep people out. Their leaders told them so.
How many were sneaking in versus sneaking out?
It’s pretty obvious today. But no free democratic country was advocating for that wall to be built.
It was “sold” as a protective measure by those who built it.
Point here is that e v e n if a wall serve a purpose you have to take in to account the signal it sends. And then weight it’s practical value to that.
It was built to stop East Germans from escaping to freedom.
No one, other than a few idiots, wanted to go from freedom to communist slavery.
I don’t know if this is worth it.
The wall served a purpose. Pretty obvious too. But it wasn’t presented as that, get it? They didn’t tell East Germans that they would be kept inside. They said this wall was - protection.
We know history. It’s not that. The wall went to pure symbolic action- it was all it did. The number of people, the drama, suffering is utterly marginal. That wall had no effect at all on a grand scale, order than that of symbol. An iron curtain.
It was more than symbolic - if the Berlin Wall had not been built, East Germans would have left in droves. They risked getting shot to get out of there and many of them died trying, and it sure as hell wasn't to keep anybody out. Our proposed wall is the reverse, it is only one part of an overall solution to reduce illegal immigration and the flow of illegal drugs and anything else into the US. What makes this whole thing so vexing is that the democrats voted for that wall 12 years ago, but now that Trump wants it they're voting against it.
So, with that said - the real practical use of any such installation might be more about sending signals than creating a long term change.
Why oh why dew DemonRats want illegal rats stealing into this country? The fucking Berlin Wall kept people in! Escaping was hard. How many DemonRats want to escape the USA?
The Berlin Wall is a fraction of what Trump wants to build .
Building a wall at the populated areas is fine . Building a wall in the middle of nowhere is a waste .
"Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
That's a tomato/tomahto argument. But the East Berliners BELIEVED it was to keep decadence out, just like you believe it will keep druggies and rapists out."Nobody has the intention of building a wall." - GDR head of state Walter Ulbricht, East Berlin, June 15th 1961
A few month later, in August 1961 he thanked the labour force for erecting this wall.
It’s purpose; protecting eastern Germany from western spies, insurgents and intrusion of undesirable elements.
A wall is always going to have two sides. Perhaps the actual, acute need for a wall, in reality, isn’t that desperate? More like a political trophy of some kind?
The Berlin wall was to keep people from getting out, not getting in.
