Accurate history is dead in the USA...unless you educate YOURSELF!!!

[Liberty]

Jobs moved to china becuase of cheap labor and virtually no environmental regs.

ie increase profit.

my point is still valid, government and federal reserve chased out the corporations and simple jobs.

No it's not. Americans can't compete with an 88 dollar a month minimum wage. Then you have the Chinese government spending millions here so our government will subsidize teaching Chinese to take our jobs.

Then add in the Chinese government sponsored companies selling products below the cost of the products to drive competition out of business. This is how they do it. It has nothing to do with "taxes" and other Republican lies. I can't believe you guys still fall for that. You sit in front of the Internet. Go look stuff up. It's better to know the truth.

you can trace it all back to the federal government, if you can think past stage 1.

 

[bodecea]

I have a friend who is a Lt in the Air Force and he threw this up on facebook:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Franklin D. Roosevelt


How fucked up is that? Sigh...idiots are everywhere it seems.

Anyway, organized education is not education at all the more and more it seems like the only way one can learn truth is to study on your own...damn friggin sad and depressing if you ask me.

Oh well....when I think of the USA and the current society that dwells within and calls themselves "Americans" I think of an innocent person (representing American principles) being drawn and quartered by those who are indoctrinated by those who have power and control...

...yeah...Education is dead. Teach yourself, it's the only way now. Question with boldness everything you hear from everyone and especially self proclaimed "experts". Chances are its bullshit. First hand sources are the only way to know history now.

That's very interesting since it is Benjamin Franklin who said it. Of course, he WAS Air Force....

 

[bodecea]

That quote comes from Ben Franklin.

Benjamin Franklin - Wikiquote

yes, that is the point...it's sad that people...especially military officers think someone as terrible as FDR said such a good quote and the reason why I decided to share his ignorance with everyone on USMB. Also, posted it to use as an example to describe the ridiculously high amount of incorrect information that people spread. Ignorance begets ignorance.

Oh really?

 

[Liberty]

That quote comes from Ben Franklin.

Benjamin Franklin - Wikiquote

yes, that is the point...it's sad that people...especially military officers think someone as terrible as FDR said such a good quote and the reason why I decided to share his ignorance with everyone on USMB. Also, posted it to use as an example to describe the ridiculously high amount of incorrect information that people spread. Ignorance begets ignorance.

Oh really?

I am one of those "whack jobs" who when studying the great depression came to the conclusion that FDR and the new deal made it last longer, not to mention the blatant disregard for enumerated powers etc etc. So yeah, FDR was a shithead in my book.

 

[California Girl]

That quote comes from Ben Franklin.

Benjamin Franklin - Wikiquote

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

 

[theHawk]

Jobs moved to china becuase of cheap labor and virtually no environmental regs.

ie increase profit.

my point is still valid, government and federal reserve chased out the corporations and simple jobs.

No it's not. Americans can't compete with an 88 dollar a month minimum wage. Then you have the Chinese government spending millions here so our government will subsidize teaching Chinese to take our jobs.

Then add in the Chinese government sponsored companies selling products below the cost of the products to drive competition out of business. This is how they do it. It has nothing to do with "taxes" and other Republican lies. I can't believe you guys still fall for that. You sit in front of the Internet. Go look stuff up. It's better to know the truth.

If it has nothing to do with taxes then why do you keep blamming Republicans for those jobs lost?

 

[mdn2000]

We don't seem to learn very much from history anyway.
We keep screwing up in the same ways over and over.

We keep screwing up because human nature does not change, knowing history will not correct human behavior.

I have learned more of history on my own, of course its been thirty years since I was in school and even longer since I cared about school. Caring to learn makes a big difference.

Anyhow, first hand accounts, books by those who were there, lived in the times, not just one book, but many.

Taxes, fees, anything the government collects corrupts those in the government and makes an unstable environment for business, of course nothing is secure in China, China could nationalize everything over night, business in China is there to get rich overnight. They make millions moving the companies to China. Its all about the quick buck.

They dont care if the company collapses. The people dont care if the name of the company is destroyed because the Chinese use lead in toys for Mattel or Hot Wheels, the executive made his fortune making the deal to move the company, the deal to move was worth million dollar bonuses. The company can go under, it dont matter, the board of directors got rich.

Not to many people care to work or wait for money, they must have it all, now.

 

[editec]

History really doesn't help us much to decide how to go.

At best it helps us understand how we got where we are.

That being said if more people understood that lesson, we're likely be in much better shape deciding how to go.

I say likely because, well...tomorrow is promised to no man.

 

[mdn2000]

History really doesn't help us much to decide how to go.

At best it helps us understand how we got where we are.

That being said if more people understood that lesson, we're likely be in much better shape deciding how to go.

I say likely because, well...tomorrow is promised to no man.

Care to say that in English.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One of the saddest days of my life was when my youngest come home from UMD to tell me he learned that FDR was a Great President who saved the country.

Progressives have been lying and destroying our educational system for generations and it has to stop.

 

[dilloduck]

We not only can't agree on history. We can't even agree on the truth about today.Perhaps reality has become to hard and ugly and avoiding it by living fantasies and immediate gratification is too tempting to resist.

 

[editec]

History really doesn't help us much to decide how to go.

At best it helps us understand how we got where we are.

That being said if more people understood that lesson, we're likely be in much better shape deciding how to go.

I say likely because, well...tomorrow is promised to no man.

Care to say that in English.

Hmmmm...too philosophical for you?

How about a little folk wisdom instead

If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.​

 

[dilloduck]

History really doesn't help us much to decide how to go.

At best it helps us understand how we got where we are.

That being said if more people understood that lesson, we're likely be in much better shape deciding how to go.

I say likely because, well...tomorrow is promised to no man.

I think when people are trying to advocate a plan of action they tend to cherry pick a portion of history that appears to bolster their point INSTEAD of looking at moments in history as a combination of multiple factors.

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk
Cried, "Ho! what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up he spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope.
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen

John Godfrey Saxe

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I think when people are trying to advocate a plan of action they tend to cherry pick a portion of history that appears to bolster their point INSTEAD of looking at moments in history as a combination of multiple factors.

Agreed. Best history teacher I ever had opened my eyes to the idea that events are a combination of factors, not just names and dates and locations.

Take for example the ranting on FDR in this thread. A lot of folks forget that during the Great Depression you were seeing shanty towns in Central Park (called Hoovervilles), outright starvation in the Appalachians, and you had a little meteorlogical event called the Dust Bowl devestating the heartland. We came pretty close to losing everything here and people wanted action out of the Feds, or by God they'd find someone that would act. People were starting to head towards the OUTRIGHT facists and Communists as viable candidates for office.

So when you look at FDR and the New Deal, one thing you have to factor in is that if the Feds had refused to act, then the Federal Government would have been replaced by a government that would have acted. It happened in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America,.... it would have happened here. The Constitution persists to this day because of FDR.

 

[psikeyhackr]

How do you figure out what accurate history is?

How many different versions of accurate history are there?

Try finding how many Indians there were in North America before Europeans showed up? I have found a pretty wide variation in the estimates. So I have to wonder why it can't be narrowed down a lot more. Could it be that some people don't want accurate history?

So we are stuck with the first question.

History is merely the lies told by the winner. To hell with it.

psik

 

[Liberty]

How do you figure out what accurate history is?

How many different versions of accurate history are there?

Try finding how many Indians there were in North America before Europeans showed up? I have found a pretty wide variation in the estimates. So I have to wonder why it can't be narrowed down a lot more. Could it be that some people don't want accurate history?

So we are stuck with the first question.

History is merely the lies told by the winner. To hell with it.

psik

getting first hand sources of all sides and then using deductive reasoning is really the only way.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I think when people are trying to advocate a plan of action they tend to cherry pick a portion of history that appears to bolster their point INSTEAD of looking at moments in history as a combination of multiple factors.

Agreed. Best history teacher I ever had opened my eyes to the idea that events are a combination of factors, not just names and dates and locations.

Take for example the ranting on FDR in this thread. A lot of folks forget that during the Great Depression you were seeing shanty towns in Central Park (called Hoovervilles), outright starvation in the Appalachians, and you had a little meteorlogical event called the Dust Bowl devestating the heartland. We came pretty close to losing everything here and people wanted action out of the Feds, or by God they'd find someone that would act. People were starting to head towards the OUTRIGHT facists and Communists as viable candidates for office.

So when you look at FDR and the New Deal, one thing you have to factor in is that if the Feds had refused to act, then the Federal Government would have been replaced by a government that would have acted. It happened in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America,.... it would have happened here. The Constitution persists to this day because of FDR.

FDR was an EPIC FAIL. Stop lying about him and his imaginary greatness!

If you want to see what's effective in dealing with economic look at Harding and Coolidge.

Hoover and FDR were a decade long disaster and the sooner you stop lying the better off we'll all be

 

[Liberty]

Don't forget Wilson....*shiver*.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I think when people are trying to advocate a plan of action they tend to cherry pick a portion of history that appears to bolster their point INSTEAD of looking at moments in history as a combination of multiple factors.

Agreed. Best history teacher I ever had opened my eyes to the idea that events are a combination of factors, not just names and dates and locations.

Take for example the ranting on FDR in this thread. A lot of folks forget that during the Great Depression you were seeing shanty towns in Central Park (called Hoovervilles), outright starvation in the Appalachians, and you had a little meteorlogical event called the Dust Bowl devestating the heartland. We came pretty close to losing everything here and people wanted action out of the Feds, or by God they'd find someone that would act. People were starting to head towards the OUTRIGHT facists and Communists as viable candidates for office.

So when you look at FDR and the New Deal, one thing you have to factor in is that if the Feds had refused to act, then the Federal Government would have been replaced by a government that would have acted. It happened in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America,.... it would have happened here. The Constitution persists to this day because of FDR.

FDR was an EPIC FAIL. Stop lying about him and his imaginary greatness!

If you want to see what's effective in dealing with economic look at Harding and Coolidge.

Hoover and FDR were a decade long disaster and the sooner you stop lying the better off we'll all be

You're still failing to address the issues at the time Frank. Read up on the Dust Bowl, the Hoovervilles, and the situation in the Appalachians. Read up on some of the Right lenaing folks that were out and out Fascists and on the verge of public office. Or read up on the "Patriotic Americans", and I use that term loosely, that were advocates of Nazi Germany like Lindberg and Grandpappy Bush. Hell, read up on the Business Man Plot.

We came damn close to tossing the Constitution and appointing a Facist as President. It doesn't take a lot of nudging and you get a history where Lindbergh was a Fascist Dictator with popular support.

The New Deal, despite the other complaints you had, bought time and gave people the hope that the Feds were trying to do something. Without it the Constitution is tossed and America goes fascist and that's the end of that.

Did FDR have problems? Sure. The Japenese internment is senough to guarantee him a lot of rightful criticism as history looks back on him. But the New Deal bought time, and the fact the Constitution is still around and not in some trash bin someplace is due to FDR. You don't have to like it for the facts to be true Frank. That's just how it is.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Don't forget Wilson....*shiver*.

For the record, I've never once met a person that actually thought Wilson was a good President. By the time he left office he wasn't even that popular among his contemporaries. The Treaty of Versailles and his handling of the Great Influenze Pandemic, along with the epic failure of the League of Nations, secures him a spot on the failure list.