Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

[Shusha]

This is an interesting use of language, given that the slaughter of 41,000 people in Gaza and 98,000 injured (e.g. amputees, lost eyes, severe burns etc) is described by many Israel supporters here as "not genocide" then by what logic does the Oct 7th attack qualify as a "genocidal invasion" when the number of victims is 1,139?

Will you also explain what you mean by "Why, on October 8, did the international community not fulfill its primary guiding principle?" ?

You understand that there's no official body named "the international community" the only way countries do act as a body is through decisions made by the UN's members.

What did the UN fail to do on Oct 8th? other than apply and enforce sanctions on Israel which should have happened decades ago.

The primary guiding principles of the international community (meaning generally the combined leaders of the world's States), as articulated in various treaties and conventions, are: 1. Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity; 2. Peaceful resolution of conflict.

Hamas, the governing power in Gaza, violated these principles and committed a crime against humanity on October 7, 2023. Right?! We all agree on this, right?!

The international community should have responded immediately with one voice that they will not excuse or permit the commission of crimes against humanity perpetrated on any State. They should have stood with Israel and put pressure on Hamas to immediately return the hostages, surrender, renounce their goal to destroy Israel, and cease all hostilities. Backed up with boots on the ground supporting Israel.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Piss off, wench. We've all seen the videos of Jews blocking access to Gaza for convoys of trucks with food and medicine. You people are hateful.

Jews are upset that they have to feed the people who are attacking them? Outrageous!

How much food did we send to Germany while we were fighting the Nazis?

It must have been a lot, right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What is it with you people and lying? Israel is bombing refugee "safe zones," for crying out loud. They open fire on people trying to get aid from relief organizations. They use the sound of a baby crying to lure Palestinians into the open, then kill them. For two years prior to the start of the genocide, Israeli snipers shot the kneecaps of unarmed teenagers on the Gaza side of the border peacefully demonstrating against Israeli brutality. In the evenings, Jews would grab a lawn chair and a pair of binoculars and perch on nearby hilltops to cheer the snipers' "great shots" as they fired on unarmed human beings.

You people are sick and the whole world knows it.

What is it with you people and lying?

We're not lying, we're better at math and logic than the terrorist supporters like you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Now show a video of a muslim attacking Christians!

 

[Grau]

Don't expect that video to ever make it past the censors that run pro Israel MSM.

And don't expect "60 Minutes" to run anything about this either:

- "Ultra-Orthodox Jews seen spitting on Christian pilgrims in Jerusalem"

Ultra-Orthodox Jews seen spitting on Christian pilgrims in Jerusalem

East Jerusalem is home to several holy sites for Christians - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

EXCERPT "However, far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir downplayed the behavior, saying it did not amount to a "criminal act," according to the Times of Israel newspaper.

On Tuesday, Youssef Daher, coordinator of the World Council of Churches in Jerusalem, said Christians face “persecution” by Israeli extremist groups amid government inaction.

"We feel persecution against our community and religion,” Daher told Anadolu.East Jerusalem, which Israel occupied in 1967, is home to several historic and holy sites for Christians, including the Church of the Holy Sepulchre."CONTINUED



Thanks,

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This is an interesting use of language, given that the slaughter of 41,000 people in Gaza and 98,000 injured (e.g. amputees, lost eyes, severe burns etc) is described by many Israel supporters here as "not genocide" then by what logic does the Oct 7th attack qualify as a "genocidal invasion" when the number of victims is 1,139?

Will you also explain what you mean by "Why, on October 8, did the international community not fulfill its primary guiding principle?" ?

You understand that there's no official body named "the international community" the only way countries do act as a body is through decisions made by the UN's members.

What did the UN fail to do on Oct 8th? other than apply and enforce sanctions on Israel which should have happened decades ago.

then by what logic does the Oct 7th attack qualify as a "genocidal invasion" when the number of victims is 1,139?

Over 1100 victims in one day versus barely 100 a day? Is that logic?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The primary guiding principles of the international community (meaning generally the combined leaders of the world's States), as articulated in various treaties and conventions, are: 1. Sovereignty and Territorial Integrity; 2. Peaceful resolution of conflict.

There is no such body or principles. The nearest actual institution would be the UN and the UN charter.

Hamas, the governing power in Gaza, violated these principles and committed a crime against humanity on October 7, 2023. Right?! We all agree on this, right?!

Yes.

The international community should have responded immediately with one voice that they will not excuse or permit the commission of crimes against humanity perpetrated on any State.

Which countries do you think are members of the "international community"? Iran? Turkey? The UN has in fact acted many times since 1948 and called for Israel to comply with various decisions, it has refused and the USA has also vetoed resolutions.

As a result Israel's occupation and lawlessness has continued unabated for seventy five years and the actions that would have helped reduce tension and further conflict were never taken and so the causes of that tension and conflict continued and the unsurprising result is violence by a people who have been abandoned by the "international community".

If all legal and non-violent options have been tried and yet have also been thwarted, why is violence not at some point, an appropriate response to a brutal racist foreign occupation?

Jews resorted to terrorism during the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, were those people terrorist? should not all terrorist be held to the same standards?

Did you know that Jews in that ghetto used tunnels and underground dug out facilities in order to hide people and weapons form German forces?

They should have stood with Israel and put pressure on Hamas to immediately return the hostages, surrender, renounce their goal to destroy Israel, and cease all hostilities. Backed up with boots on the ground supporting Israel.

Which countries did not "stand by Israel" on Oct 8th?

Has Israel ever asked for other countries to provide "boots on the ground"?

What countries SHOULD do is stand by the UN as the global authority that defines law and order and respect the democratic process that is embodied in the UN.

Finally, please tell me, is destroying a political ideology, a regime, always wrong?

 

[Grau]

"Israel's Right Wing Netanyahu Government; not "the Jews", not "Israel" etc"

Sigh. You made a false claim, misinformation deliberately intended to demonize Jews, here:

(emphasis mine) I, correctly, called these lies out for what they are - blood libels. Then I commented about the primary source research which provides analysis of post-conflict non-combat deaths. You responded, claiming that you have read the primary source research on the subject matter. Here:

If you had actually read the primary source research on the subject, you would know that predicting future events and the circumstances which lead to post-conflict non-combat deaths is challenging. So I called you on it, here:

And, at your request, provided clarification, here:

If you have read the primary source material and the data, this would be an easy question to answer.

My entire point in all this is that you are repeating blood libels which have no basis in fact, and that you have not completed the research you claim to have.

Every one of your innumerable comments has been an evasive attempt to slander me as someone hostile to Jews therefore, in an attempt to make my criticisms clear, I was precise in stating that I condemn the crimes committed by Israel's Right Wing Netanyahu Government; not "the Jews", not "Israel" etc.

I even repeated precisely the specific individuals whose crimes and atrocities I was condemning each time as "I.R.W.N.G.; not the Jews', not Israel etc" so you would stop deliberately trying to demonize me as condemning "the Jews" and therefore.......
You guessed it:........................... an "anti Semite".
So, No, I did not make a false claim, misinformation deliberately intended to demonize Jews.

You commented some time ago that my use of "Netanyahu Regime" was hyperbolic and too strident.
I have since used "Netanyahu Government" in an attempt to tone down the rhetoric but your deliberate rhetorical ploy to misrepresent my sentiments as anti Semitic by intentionally substituting "the Jews" when I very clearly wrote "I.R.W.N.G." or "Israel's Right Wing Netanyahu Government"

Regarding the study I cited
I've read the same article I posted earlier for the 4th time and see nothing to indicate that anything I've written exaggerates the number of men, women, and children either killed or near death.

I'm not the one demonizing IDF or IRWNG. Their unusual disregard for human life and the Geneva Convention is what makes their behavior demonic:

Re: My entire point in all this is that you are repeating blood libels which have no basis in fact,

Oh, really?

It's neither "blood libel" nor "anti Semitic" when my estimates are based on fact:

- "The Israel Massacre Forces"
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-israel-massacre-forces-1.5962852

EXCERPT "The shooting on the Gaza border shows once again that the killing of Palestinians is accepted in Israel more lightly than the killing of mosquitoes"CONTINUED


- "Independent investigation details Israel’s deliberate targeting of civilians in Gaza"
Independent investigation details Israel’s deliberate targeting of civilians in Gaza


- "'Fire at every person': Israeli soldiers reveal they were ordered to shoot to kill in Gaza combat zones – even if targets may have been civilians"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fire-at-every-person-you-see-israeli-soldiers-reveal-they-were-ordered-to-shoot-to-kill-in-gaza-even-10223427.html

EXCERPT "The Israeli military deliberately pounded civilian areas in the Gaza Strip with incessant fire of inaccurate ordinance during last year’s war against Hamas and was at best indifferent about casualties among the Palestinian population."CONTINUED

-------------------------------------

The predictions I made are certainly fallible but based on both research and first hand experience in 3rd world war zones and fetid refugee camps.

If anything the death tolls I predicted are lower than those likely to occur if I.R.W.N.G. continues deliberately targeting civilians, blocking aid and bombing refugee camps during the cold Winter months.

Finally, You apparently haven't read where I have frequently praised all that is positive, ethical, creative and admirable about peace seeking and rational Jews and Israelis.

I am more alarmed by radical and bellicose nuclear powers than by radical and bellicose military weaklings.

The reason we discuss Israel here is because it's the "Israel - Palestine" section of the forum.

 

[Shusha]

...in an attempt to make my criticisms clear, I was precise in stating that I condemn the crimes committed by Israel's Right Wing Netanyahu Government; not "the Jews", not "Israel" etc.

You need to read your own words again, so here they are:

I promise you that Israel's genocidal Zionists are murdering Gaza's native residents as quickly as possible.

...Israel's genocidal Zionists are counting on; those quiet deaths from wounds, burns, disease, birth deaths, starvation, exposure and dehydration.

Finally, your dream of well over 1,000,000 men, women and children dying in Gaza is a near certainty once Winter comes and "mows the lawn" throughout Gaza's fetid refugee camps and frequently bombed "Safe Zones".

That is just ONE post, of many in this thread of discussion. You routinely use collective language or personalized language rather than specifically using "Israel's current government". (Though I do genuinely very much appreciate it when you do.) Just because you use it occasionally, does not mean you are absolved from the times you choose not to use it.

 

[Shusha]

Regarding the study I cited

You didn't cite a study. You cited an opinion piece. Actually, you cited an opinion piece about another opinion piece, about yet another opinion piece. None of which linked the primary source research. (Spoiler: there is actually primary source research. I've read it. I know what the research actually says, and what it does not say.)

I've read the same article I posted earlier for the 4th time and see nothing to indicate that anything I've written exaggerates the number of men, women, and children either killed or near death.

Yes. You have written another opinion piece which is now four times removed from facts and reality. And you have exaggerated, yet again. It's 1,000,000 now. But you "can't see" any exaggeration.

It's like a deliberate Game of Telephone.

 

[Grau]

You didn't cite a study. You cited an opinion piece. Actually, you cited an opinion piece about another opinion piece, about yet another opinion piece. None of which linked the primary source research. (Spoiler: there is actually primary source research. I've read it. I know what the research actually says, and what it does not say.)

Yes. You have written another opinion piece which is now four times removed from facts and reality. And you have exaggerated, yet again. It's 1,000,000 now. But you "can't see" any exaggeration.

It's like a deliberate Game of Telephone.

You wrote earlier:

Re: I've read it. I know what the research actually says, and what it does not say.)

You have repeatedly referred to " the research" but have cited nothing other you've "read the research" but can cite nothing that contradicts the sources I've cited.

In other words, you can find nothing that refutes the general estimates I've made.

To clarify what I've already written, I meant that as of about a year from now about 1 million Gazans will have died in the Gaza genocide from direct or indirect causes since 7 October 2023.

Put another way, by 7 October 2025 about 1 million Gazans will have died from direct and indirect causes resulting from the Gaza genocide.

I genuinely hope that my estimates are high.

 

[Grau]

You need to read your own words again, so here they are:



That is just ONE post, of many in this thread of discussion. You routinely use collective language or personalized language rather than specifically using "Israel's current government". (Though I do genuinely very much appreciate it when you do.) Just because you use it occasionally, does not mean you are absolved from the times you choose not to use it.

The term "Israel's genocidal Zionists" is still not the same as "the Jews", "the Israelis" etc because not all Jews are either Zionist or Israeli.

Re: Just because you use it occasionally, does not mean you are absolved from the times you choose not to use it.

It's more frequent that I attempt to be specific than just occasionally and I've never made generalized criticisms of "the Jews".

It's my general sentiment that most people are basically good or at least try to do the right thing. I honestly don't feel that the Jewish people are any different.

 

[Shusha]

To clarify what I've already written, I meant that as of about a year from now about 1 million Gazans will have died in the Gaza genocide from direct or indirect causes since 7 October 2023.

Put another way, by 7 October 2025 about 1 million Gazans will have died from direct and indirect causes resulting from the Gaza genocide.

Oh, you have been super clear about what you mean. I am not in any way disputing what you mean to say. You clearly mean to say what you say.

My point is that you are making it up. There is no rational basis to make this ridiculous prediction for the future. The existing research on direct and indirect causes of death during conflict and post-conflict contradicts your claim.

Did you care to point to some rational argument and evidence for predicting a death rate of half the population of Gaza in two years?

 

[Shusha]

The term "Israel's genocidal Zionists" is still not the same as "the Jews", "the Israelis" etc because not all Jews are either Zionist or Israeli.

You are clearly using "Zionist" as a collective noun to describe something. It is frequently used as a slur, or to separate "good" Jew from "evil" Jew. If you don't intend it that way, would you please describe the collective you intend to apply this noun to?

 

[Lisa558]

Oh, you have been super clear about what you mean. I am not in any way disputing what you mean to say. You clearly mean to say what you say.

My point is that you are making it up. There is no rational basis to make this ridiculous prediction for the future. The existing research on direct and indirect causes of death during conflict and post-conflict contradicts your claim.

Did you care to point to some rational argument and evidence for predicting a death rate of half the population of Gaza in two years?

I’m not sure what the antisemite you’re responding to said, since I have him on ignore, but I gather he predicted half the population of Gaza would be dead in two years.

1) If he is extrapolating from the current death rate, we could claim - IF the fighting were to continue for another two years, which it won’t - that a total of 1.5% of Gazans would be dead.

2) If he is claiming that half would be dead from the results of the war, where in ANY country following a war has half the population been dead?

Sounds to me like he’s making up claims due to his contempt for Jews.