Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

[Sherlock Holmes]

 

[Shusha]

There ya go again, telling people with whom you disagree, what they "really mean" to say, the arrogance.

The point of disagreement is the clarity or lack of clarity in the language used. Gipper's claim was that most of the people on this board are "Zionists" which he defines as "those who support genocide". But none of us support genocide. Its a contradiction. So, we either have to clarify the meaning of "Zionist" or clarify the meaning of "genocide".

 

[gipper]

The problem is that you use the word "genocide" but what you really mean is "any action Israel takes to respond to violence committed against Israeli sovereignty and Israeli citizens".

You guessed wrong. Zionist!

 

[rosends]

You want people to step "in line with the way" Zionists use it ! You want to lie, want to pretend that Zionism is non-threatening to Arabs and Palestinians and pretend that any difficulties that befall them are absolutely nothing to do with Zionism - a lie.

Tell me who is "authorized" to give this deceptive "official" definition? who constitutes the decision makers as to what Zionism means and does not mean?

Relying on Zionists to define for us what "Zionism" means is like relying on Nazis to define what "Nazism" means, the defendants at Nurnberg even tried that in their own defense, it didn't end well for them.

Zionism includes the entitled demand that Zionist be given control over what people can and cannot say, it is insidious and the many hysterical posts about this here from some Jews, proves how seriously they take this ability to control the narrative.

So an American cannot define "American." That's a job for a Russian. Why should the world let Americans define that word? Everyone else should have the right to say what an American is but an American shouldn't!

 

[rosends]

I have spent plenty of time in the Middle East and studied the region's history for over sixty years.

Your opinion of what the "mass understanding of the word" may be different than mine but it's still just your opinion.

How would you have described Zionist for Shusha and what do you think the "mass understanding" of the word Zionist is?

Thanks,

Someone who believes in the right for Jews to have national autonomy. But that's pretty useless among those who have studied Zionism because true students of it understand the wide range of sub-concepts. So those who try to use words precisely would speak if (for example) modern political Zionism as distinct from early modern political Zionism.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So an American cannot define "American." That's a job for a Russian. Why should the world let Americans define that word? Everyone else should have the right to say what an American is but an American shouldn't!

The point you are clearly struggling with, is that these are labels applied to sets of attributes, not "definitions".

There's no universally agreed standard definition for "democracy" or "liberal" or "socialism" these are labels and "Zionism" is no different.

This is why we have "democracy in the United States" and "democracy in Australia" these are both democracies but they are applied to different attributes in different countries.

A state like Israel with it's colonial and terrorist roots, its obsession with "Jewish", it's desire to expand territorially, it's refusal to apply laws equitably between Jew and non-Jew, it's tendency to build walls and erect checkpoints and shoot kids and arrest people but never charge them, steal people's homes and so on - are all self made, Israel and the Israelis have made Israel what it is today and the state was created to embody Zionism, that was the goal.

So like it or not, the Israelis built a state by pursuing a Zionist agenda not a democratic agenda, not an egalitarian agenda, not a liberal agenda a Zionist agenda the state is what they wanted it to be!

It is the pursuit of a Zionist ideal that has produced the Israel we see today, you want to "define" Zionism by removing all of the unpalatable truths and creating a sterile inoffensive "definition", you seek to decouple the offensive, unjust, bigoted aspects of Israeli life from the term "Zionism" that's what this is all about, deception.

Israel today is the PRODUCT OF ZIONISTS so therefore ZIONISM is the ideology that created and now characterizes the state of Israel as created by ZIONISTS pursuing a ZIONIST IDEAL.

Nazi was the ideology that characterized the Third Reich, it was not the pedestrian and bland definition the Nazis would use in daily discourse or in polite company, the "real" Nazism must include the Third Reich bad ideas as well as any good.

Israelis cannot self govern, I'm afraid this is a serious assessment and sooner or later more and more people will come to recognize this, it is an example of failure, ineptitude at best and bigot hateful racism at worst.

So stop polishing a turd, accept that the state's ideological foundations are THE CAUSE OF PROBLEMS and stop blaming Arabs and Palestinians and Orthodox Jews and so on and so forth, Jews created the mess so Jews must fix it or witness the state get obliterated - their choice - the state as it stands today is unsustainable if they can't get along with your neighbors then they're looking at a repeat of 600BC, just a matter of time.

 

[expat500]

The point you are clearly struggling with

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You'll never make much of an impression on a debating site when typing seven words all by yourself is all you're capable of.

If you make a contentious post expect to be challenged, don't be offended, don't call people names like antisemite, act like and adult - different people have different views, get over it and stop with the f*****g entitlement you hyper sensitive prima donna.

 

[expat500]

You'll never make much of an impression on a debating site when typing six words all by yourself is all you're capable of.

A debating site?

Coming from you?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Someone who believes in the right for Jews to have national autonomy. But that's pretty useless among those who have studied Zionism because true students of it understand the wide range of sub-concepts. So those who try to use words precisely would speak if (for example) modern political Zionism as distinct from early modern political Zionism.

FFS so lets have "early Nazism" and "political Nazism" and "early modern Nazism" hey? or shall we all just act like adults and just say "Nazism", this is all part of the turd polishing, the desire to control terminology so as to prevent the ideology from being spoken of in honest terms.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

A debating site?

Coming from you?