"Active Shooter" video game lets you be school shooter

[Marion Morrison]

Yeah, I think I'll wait for Half-Life 3 instead.

 

[OldLady]

Like I told G.T., I didn't spend a lot of time on it. I have read studies before but I realized I was going to find as many that say No as say Yes. There certainly is a body of research out there, if you are interested. I believe it is a larger issue, of tacit approval of gun violence by using it as entertainment which feeds a culture that has become increasingly violent.

Based on violent crime decreasing?

I took the time out to GIVE YOU THE DATA....

I knew you'd say that. I heard you. I am comparing our culture today to what I remember as a kid and what other posters here remember about bringing their guns to school for rifle practice after school and such. A school shooting was completely undreamed of. A mass shooting was unheard of until the UT Austin Clock Tower shooting in 1966. Gunned down a flock of student nurses, if I remember right. It was 18 years until the next one, at a McDonalds in California. Then they start happening with more regularity, every couple of years. Now they're happening every year or more than once a year. This year will probably be a red letter year, considering we've already had two and it's not even June yet.

You're right that the homicide rate now is comparable to when I started grade school. Where, then, are these mass shootings coming from? That is not a figment of my imagination. And they were not around in 1960.

It's not a figment of your imagination - the error, so to speak, in your reasoning is that you're using anecdotes and deciding that culture as a whole behaves this way.

Even if there were 100 school shootings a year, our culture does not "behave this way," that's still a very OUTLIER statistic from the norm.

If you didn't impose anecdotes on everyone, i.e. fallacy of over-generalization, you'd be able to see the clearer picture.

School shootings up - overall homicide down = less violent, per capita, as a culture.

You have been trying to convince me for two days now that we are less violent a culture than we were thirty or forty years ago. To what end, G.T. Where do we go from here? Is it simply to correct me? I have looked at the stats. You aren't wrong. I am still very concerned about the increasing mass shootings that are happening in places all over the country with more and more frequency and you are saying this is not a reflection of our culture? Whose or what culture is it, then, if not ours? It may be an outlier, but it is sure making itself felt all over the country. We can't ignore it and say we're fine because we're murdering less people now than we did in 1990. You are puzzling me.

If your family has 100, 000 people in it and 5 of them like to pee in public...


is the culture of your 100,000 person family one of public pissers?

It's a disturbed thing to say that our culture is one of mass shooters . .when not only are mass shooters less than the scenario I painted above ....but 5 in 100,000 would be ALL homicides....not just school shooters, which makes it even MORE heinous to try to paint this as a "thing of our culture."

its totally not, CLEARLY. Its the culture of a handful of jerkoffs out of 320 fuckin MILLION people....NOT of everyone else.

If it's not our culture, why are we coming up with GTA and Active Shooter and why is shooting people such a staple of the entertainment industry? What would you call it? Just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they aren't ours, G.T. We gotta own them and we gotta figure out what to do about them.

 

[Circe]

I believe it is a larger issue, of tacit approval of gun violence by using it as entertainment which feeds a culture that has become increasingly violent.

This is the question.

And would the game "Active Shooter" give permission to do it in real life. Do all the violent movies showing people driving on the sidewalks at 80 MPH give permission to do that. Certainly a lot of terrorists run over people on sidewalks now, but that may be quite separate from movie or game violence.

I'm hoping the school shootings are just a violent episode that may happen in a country, a sort of fashion. Like the anarchists assassinations and bomb throwings for some 40 years around 1900. Or the Red Summer of 1919 when there were so many riots (well --- and the 1960s, too!). The lynchings back in the 1870s. There are fashions, contagions for violence. People catch it.

Here's one that goes the other way --- serial killers. The number of novels and movies about male serial killers preying on beautiful young women has skyrocketed. They all compete to describe the goriest and most original and bizarre and horrible torture killings of the women. Why this should be so popular and entertaining, I don't know --- or which sex is reading and watching them more.

But the big serial killer era is long past, decades. There are very few such cases now. So the books and movies and games that feature this stuff are not causing more. Is it a sign of a degrading culture that uses this idea as mass entertainment? Sure! Is it causing people to go be serial murderers? Apparently not.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Based on violent crime decreasing?

I took the time out to GIVE YOU THE DATA....

I knew you'd say that. I heard you. I am comparing our culture today to what I remember as a kid and what other posters here remember about bringing their guns to school for rifle practice after school and such. A school shooting was completely undreamed of. A mass shooting was unheard of until the UT Austin Clock Tower shooting in 1966. Gunned down a flock of student nurses, if I remember right. It was 18 years until the next one, at a McDonalds in California. Then they start happening with more regularity, every couple of years. Now they're happening every year or more than once a year. This year will probably be a red letter year, considering we've already had two and it's not even June yet.

You're right that the homicide rate now is comparable to when I started grade school. Where, then, are these mass shootings coming from? That is not a figment of my imagination. And they were not around in 1960.

It's not a figment of your imagination - the error, so to speak, in your reasoning is that you're using anecdotes and deciding that culture as a whole behaves this way.

Even if there were 100 school shootings a year, our culture does not "behave this way," that's still a very OUTLIER statistic from the norm.

If you didn't impose anecdotes on everyone, i.e. fallacy of over-generalization, you'd be able to see the clearer picture.

School shootings up - overall homicide down = less violent, per capita, as a culture.

You have been trying to convince me for two days now that we are less violent a culture than we were thirty or forty years ago. To what end, G.T. Where do we go from here? Is it simply to correct me? I have looked at the stats. You aren't wrong. I am still very concerned about the increasing mass shootings that are happening in places all over the country with more and more frequency and you are saying this is not a reflection of our culture? Whose or what culture is it, then, if not ours? It may be an outlier, but it is sure making itself felt all over the country. We can't ignore it and say we're fine because we're murdering less people now than we did in 1990. You are puzzling me.

If your family has 100, 000 people in it and 5 of them like to pee in public...


is the culture of your 100,000 person family one of public pissers?

It's a disturbed thing to say that our culture is one of mass shooters . .when not only are mass shooters less than the scenario I painted above ....but 5 in 100,000 would be ALL homicides....not just school shooters, which makes it even MORE heinous to try to paint this as a "thing of our culture."

its totally not, CLEARLY. Its the culture of a handful of jerkoffs out of 320 fuckin MILLION people....NOT of everyone else.

If it's not our culture, why are we coming up with GTA and Active Shooter and why is shooting people such a staple of the entertainment industry? What would you call it? Just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they aren't ours, G.T. We gotta own them and we gotta figure out what to do about them.

There needs to be more real gun education. Shooting classes, gun safety classes, etc..

 

[G.T.]

Based on violent crime decreasing?

I took the time out to GIVE YOU THE DATA....

I knew you'd say that. I heard you. I am comparing our culture today to what I remember as a kid and what other posters here remember about bringing their guns to school for rifle practice after school and such. A school shooting was completely undreamed of. A mass shooting was unheard of until the UT Austin Clock Tower shooting in 1966. Gunned down a flock of student nurses, if I remember right. It was 18 years until the next one, at a McDonalds in California. Then they start happening with more regularity, every couple of years. Now they're happening every year or more than once a year. This year will probably be a red letter year, considering we've already had two and it's not even June yet.

You're right that the homicide rate now is comparable to when I started grade school. Where, then, are these mass shootings coming from? That is not a figment of my imagination. And they were not around in 1960.

It's not a figment of your imagination - the error, so to speak, in your reasoning is that you're using anecdotes and deciding that culture as a whole behaves this way.

Even if there were 100 school shootings a year, our culture does not "behave this way," that's still a very OUTLIER statistic from the norm.

If you didn't impose anecdotes on everyone, i.e. fallacy of over-generalization, you'd be able to see the clearer picture.

School shootings up - overall homicide down = less violent, per capita, as a culture.

You have been trying to convince me for two days now that we are less violent a culture than we were thirty or forty years ago. To what end, G.T. Where do we go from here? Is it simply to correct me? I have looked at the stats. You aren't wrong. I am still very concerned about the increasing mass shootings that are happening in places all over the country with more and more frequency and you are saying this is not a reflection of our culture? Whose or what culture is it, then, if not ours? It may be an outlier, but it is sure making itself felt all over the country. We can't ignore it and say we're fine because we're murdering less people now than we did in 1990. You are puzzling me.

If your family has 100, 000 people in it and 5 of them like to pee in public...


is the culture of your 100,000 person family one of public pissers?

It's a disturbed thing to say that our culture is one of mass shooters . .when not only are mass shooters less than the scenario I painted above ....but 5 in 100,000 would be ALL homicides....not just school shooters, which makes it even MORE heinous to try to paint this as a "thing of our culture."

its totally not, CLEARLY. Its the culture of a handful of jerkoffs out of 320 fuckin MILLION people....NOT of everyone else.

If it's not our culture, why are we coming up with GTA and Active Shooter and why is shooting people such a staple of the entertainment industry? What would you call it? Just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they aren't ours, G.T. We gotta own them and we gotta figure out what to do about them.

Whoa -

So you're willing to say that this millionth of a fraction of mentally ill idiots - speaks for our entire culture?

I just hope that you know how preposterous that actually is.

If one kid swears in my Kylie's kindergarten class, I wouldn't even call that 1 in 25 the "culture of the class," unfairly....let alone it being one in tens of millions.

This is not an accurate perspective, by any means, of the situation. It's actually quite crazy to think of it in those terms.


Even if 1% of our "culture" were homicidal school shooters, we'd have 3 million 200 school shooters. That broad-brush crap doesn't stand to reason.

 

[OldLady]

I knew you'd say that. I heard you. I am comparing our culture today to what I remember as a kid and what other posters here remember about bringing their guns to school for rifle practice after school and such. A school shooting was completely undreamed of. A mass shooting was unheard of until the UT Austin Clock Tower shooting in 1966. Gunned down a flock of student nurses, if I remember right. It was 18 years until the next one, at a McDonalds in California. Then they start happening with more regularity, every couple of years. Now they're happening every year or more than once a year. This year will probably be a red letter year, considering we've already had two and it's not even June yet.

You're right that the homicide rate now is comparable to when I started grade school. Where, then, are these mass shootings coming from? That is not a figment of my imagination. And they were not around in 1960.

It's not a figment of your imagination - the error, so to speak, in your reasoning is that you're using anecdotes and deciding that culture as a whole behaves this way.

Even if there were 100 school shootings a year, our culture does not "behave this way," that's still a very OUTLIER statistic from the norm.

If you didn't impose anecdotes on everyone, i.e. fallacy of over-generalization, you'd be able to see the clearer picture.

School shootings up - overall homicide down = less violent, per capita, as a culture.

You have been trying to convince me for two days now that we are less violent a culture than we were thirty or forty years ago. To what end, G.T. Where do we go from here? Is it simply to correct me? I have looked at the stats. You aren't wrong. I am still very concerned about the increasing mass shootings that are happening in places all over the country with more and more frequency and you are saying this is not a reflection of our culture? Whose or what culture is it, then, if not ours? It may be an outlier, but it is sure making itself felt all over the country. We can't ignore it and say we're fine because we're murdering less people now than we did in 1990. You are puzzling me.

If your family has 100, 000 people in it and 5 of them like to pee in public...


is the culture of your 100,000 person family one of public pissers?

It's a disturbed thing to say that our culture is one of mass shooters . .when not only are mass shooters less than the scenario I painted above ....but 5 in 100,000 would be ALL homicides....not just school shooters, which makes it even MORE heinous to try to paint this as a "thing of our culture."

its totally not, CLEARLY. Its the culture of a handful of jerkoffs out of 320 fuckin MILLION people....NOT of everyone else.

If it's not our culture, why are we coming up with GTA and Active Shooter and why is shooting people such a staple of the entertainment industry? What would you call it? Just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they aren't ours, G.T. We gotta own them and we gotta figure out what to do about them.

Whoa -

So you're willing to say that this millionth of a fraction of mentally ill idiots - speaks for our entire culture?

I just hope that you know how preposterous that actually is.

If one kid swears in my Kylie's kindergarten class, I wouldn't even call that 1 in 25 the "culture of the class," unfairly....let alone it being one in tens of millions.

This is not an accurate perspective, by any means, of the situation. It's actually quite crazy to think of it in those terms.


Even if 1% of our "culture" were homicidal school shooters, we'd have 3 million 200 school shooters. That broad-brush crap doesn't stand to reason.

G.T., I'm not the one who's crazy here. You can't just say a growing number of disturbed individuals in this country are not part of our culture. No, of course saying our culture has to own them doesn't mean everyone thinks like them or is disturbed or psychopathic like them. I know you personally didn't produce Cruz; neither did I. But he grew up right here in this US of A .

 

[OldLady]

I believe it is a larger issue, of tacit approval of gun violence by using it as entertainment which feeds a culture that has become increasingly violent.

This is the question.

And would the game "Active Shooter" give permission to do it in real life. Do all the violent movies showing people driving on the sidewalks at 80 MPH give permission to do that. Certainly a lot of terrorists run over people on sidewalks now, but that may be quite separate from movie or game violence.

I'm hoping the school shootings are just a violent episode that may happen in a country, a sort of fashion. Like the anarchists assassinations and bomb throwings for some 40 years around 1900. Or the Red Summer of 1919 when there were so many riots (well --- and the 1960s, too!). The lynchings back in the 1870s. There are fashions, contagions for violence. People catch it.

Here's one that goes the other way --- serial killers. The number of novels and movies about male serial killers preying on beautiful young women has skyrocketed. They all compete to describe the goriest and most original and bizarre and horrible torture killings of the women. Why this should be so popular and entertaining, I don't know --- or which sex is reading and watching them more.

But the big serial killer era is long past, decades. There are very few such cases now. So the books and movies and games that feature this stuff are not causing more. Is it a sign of a degrading culture that uses this idea as mass entertainment? Sure! Is it causing people to go be serial murderers? Apparently not.

Take a look at some of the research on violence in media and its affect on people. It's not hard to find.

 

[G.T.]

It's not a figment of your imagination - the error, so to speak, in your reasoning is that you're using anecdotes and deciding that culture as a whole behaves this way.

Even if there were 100 school shootings a year, our culture does not "behave this way," that's still a very OUTLIER statistic from the norm.

If you didn't impose anecdotes on everyone, i.e. fallacy of over-generalization, you'd be able to see the clearer picture.

School shootings up - overall homicide down = less violent, per capita, as a culture.

You have been trying to convince me for two days now that we are less violent a culture than we were thirty or forty years ago. To what end, G.T. Where do we go from here? Is it simply to correct me? I have looked at the stats. You aren't wrong. I am still very concerned about the increasing mass shootings that are happening in places all over the country with more and more frequency and you are saying this is not a reflection of our culture? Whose or what culture is it, then, if not ours? It may be an outlier, but it is sure making itself felt all over the country. We can't ignore it and say we're fine because we're murdering less people now than we did in 1990. You are puzzling me.

If your family has 100, 000 people in it and 5 of them like to pee in public...


is the culture of your 100,000 person family one of public pissers?

It's a disturbed thing to say that our culture is one of mass shooters . .when not only are mass shooters less than the scenario I painted above ....but 5 in 100,000 would be ALL homicides....not just school shooters, which makes it even MORE heinous to try to paint this as a "thing of our culture."

its totally not, CLEARLY. Its the culture of a handful of jerkoffs out of 320 fuckin MILLION people....NOT of everyone else.

If it's not our culture, why are we coming up with GTA and Active Shooter and why is shooting people such a staple of the entertainment industry? What would you call it? Just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean they aren't ours, G.T. We gotta own them and we gotta figure out what to do about them.

Whoa -

So you're willing to say that this millionth of a fraction of mentally ill idiots - speaks for our entire culture?

I just hope that you know how preposterous that actually is.

If one kid swears in my Kylie's kindergarten class, I wouldn't even call that 1 in 25 the "culture of the class," unfairly....let alone it being one in tens of millions.

This is not an accurate perspective, by any means, of the situation. It's actually quite crazy to think of it in those terms.


Even if 1% of our "culture" were homicidal school shooters, we'd have 3 million 200 school shooters. That broad-brush crap doesn't stand to reason.

G.T., I'm not the one who's crazy here. You can't just say a growing number of disturbed individuals in this country are not part of our culture. No, of course saying our culture has to own them doesn't mean everyone thinks like them or is disturbed or psychopathic like them. I know you personally didn't produce Cruz; neither did I. But he grew up right here in this US of A .

Our culture doesnt own them, our culture rejects them, kills or inprisons them, and not a single solitary human I've met endorses their behavior. Not 1.

I dont own my next door neighbor's kid's behavior and I damn sure dont own some nutjob shooter's in Florida.

My culture rejects school shooters.

 

[OldLady]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

 

[G.T.]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Yes, thats right. And we are a culture that embraces school shootings whole heartedly which is why all 0.000000097% of us perform them. Amen

 

[Circe]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Well, if you can do Donne, I know you can do Voltaire.

 

[Circe]

So did all those violent terrorists that flew planes into building and beheaded people, get influenced by violent video games?

Probably something else...............................................

 

[OldLady]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Yes, thats right. And we are a culture that embraces school shootings whole heartedly which is why all 0.000000097% of us perform them. Amen

Why is everyone acting as if only school shootings count now? Are the folks who died in Vegas grown up so it's their own problem?

These shooters are Americans and they are killing innocent Americans and we need to do something, G.T. We can't just say things are okay because the homicide rate is lower than it was 40 years ago. We can't just say things are okay because mass shooters are aberrant statistically. 10,000 plus people a year choose to murder with a gun. A lot more try but the ER saves them. What do we do?

 

[OldLady]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Well, if you can do Donne, I know you can do Voltaire.

Never heard of the guy.....

 

[OldLady]

I believe it is a larger issue, of tacit approval of gun violence by using it as entertainment which feeds a culture that has become increasingly violent.

This is the question.

And would the game "Active Shooter" give permission to do it in real life. Do all the violent movies showing people driving on the sidewalks at 80 MPH give permission to do that. Certainly a lot of terrorists run over people on sidewalks now, but that may be quite separate from movie or game violence.

I'm hoping the school shootings are just a violent episode that may happen in a country, a sort of fashion. Like the anarchists assassinations and bomb throwings for some 40 years around 1900. Or the Red Summer of 1919 when there were so many riots (well --- and the 1960s, too!). The lynchings back in the 1870s. There are fashions, contagions for violence. People catch it.

Here's one that goes the other way --- serial killers. The number of novels and movies about male serial killers preying on beautiful young women has skyrocketed. They all compete to describe the goriest and most original and bizarre and horrible torture killings of the women. Why this should be so popular and entertaining, I don't know --- or which sex is reading and watching them more.

But the big serial killer era is long past, decades. There are very few such cases now. So the books and movies and games that feature this stuff are not causing more. Is it a sign of a degrading culture that uses this idea as mass entertainment? Sure! Is it causing people to go be serial murderers? Apparently not.

I know. LOL I remember when we were kids, there were always the ones who wanted to look under the rock for that slimy ugly slug. Vampire and Zombie and serial murder afficianados remind me of that.

 

[G.T.]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Yes, thats right. And we are a culture that embraces school shootings whole heartedly which is why all 0.000000097% of us perform them. Amen

Why is everyone acting as if only school shootings count now? Are the folks who died in Vegas grown up so it's their own problem?

These shooters are Americans and they are killing innocent Americans and we need to do something, G.T. We can't just say things are okay because the homicide rate is lower than it was 40 years ago. We can't just say things are okay because mass shooters are aberrant statistically. 10,000 plus people a year choose to murder with a gun. A lot more try but the ER saves them. What do we do?

I never said anybody killing anybody was ok.

Its not. Zero murders are ok.


But the murders that do happen dont give you license to blame a culture that is, as an absolute fact, is less violent one. That doesn't compute, not statistically....not reasonably, not even emotionally because less people dying makes me happier than I would be if more people were (obvious tautology).

No matter how many murderers copy the means of 'killing by assualt rifle' because these already would-be murderers saw it and got the idea to do it that way.....it still doesnt support the claim that its our culture because there are


LESS KILLERS.

 

[OldLady]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Yes, thats right. And we are a culture that embraces school shootings whole heartedly which is why all 0.000000097% of us perform them. Amen

Why is everyone acting as if only school shootings count now? Are the folks who died in Vegas grown up so it's their own problem?

These shooters are Americans and they are killing innocent Americans and we need to do something, G.T. We can't just say things are okay because the homicide rate is lower than it was 40 years ago. We can't just say things are okay because mass shooters are aberrant statistically. 10,000 plus people a year choose to murder with a gun. A lot more try but the ER saves them. What do we do?

I never said anybody killing anybody was ok.

Its not. Zero murders are ok.


But the murders that do happen dont give you license to blame a culture that is, as an absolute fact, is less violent one. That doesn't compute, not statistically....not reasonably, not even emotionally because less people dying makes me happier than I would be if more people were (obvious tautology).

No matter how many murderers copy the means of 'killing by assualt rifle' because these already would-be murderers saw it and got the idea to do it that way.....it still doesnt support the claim that its our culture because there are


LESS KILLERS.

No. Less killed.
Intentional homicide demographics are affected by changes in trauma care, leading to changed lethality of violent assaults, so the intentional homicide rate may not necessarily indicate the overall level of societal violence.[3]
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The increasing mass shootings bear me out. I don't give a shit WHAT you call it--if you don't like "culture," call it something else--but this country is producing more people that go out and spray bullets at innocent crowds of people and a steady stream of people who solve their various problems by shooting one another.

I'll admit I needed to simmer down a bit when I first heard of this. I have listened to you. Now YOU try listening to me. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend we all don't own this problem. You can't say we're fine because WE. ARE. NOT.

 

[G.T.]

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

Yes, thats right. And we are a culture that embraces school shootings whole heartedly which is why all 0.000000097% of us perform them. Amen

Why is everyone acting as if only school shootings count now? Are the folks who died in Vegas grown up so it's their own problem?

These shooters are Americans and they are killing innocent Americans and we need to do something, G.T. We can't just say things are okay because the homicide rate is lower than it was 40 years ago. We can't just say things are okay because mass shooters are aberrant statistically. 10,000 plus people a year choose to murder with a gun. A lot more try but the ER saves them. What do we do?

I never said anybody killing anybody was ok.

Its not. Zero murders are ok.


But the murders that do happen dont give you license to blame a culture that is, as an absolute fact, is less violent one. That doesn't compute, not statistically....not reasonably, not even emotionally because less people dying makes me happier than I would be if more people were (obvious tautology).

No matter how many murderers copy the means of 'killing by assualt rifle' because these already would-be murderers saw it and got the idea to do it that way.....it still doesnt support the claim that its our culture because there are


LESS KILLERS.

No. Less killed.
Intentional homicide demographics are affected by changes in trauma care, leading to changed lethality of violent assaults, so the intentional homicide rate may not necessarily indicate the overall level of societal violence.[3]
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

The increasing mass shootings bear me out. I don't give a shit WHAT you call it--if you don't like "culture," call it something else--but this country is producing more people that go out and spray bullets at innocent crowds of people and a steady stream of people who solve their various problems by shooting one another.

I'll admit I needed to simmer down a bit when I first heard of this. I have listened to you. Now YOU try listening to me. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend we all don't own this problem. You can't say we're fine because WE. ARE. NOT.

"We" DONT own it.

YOU can own it.... all youd like.

The way me and mine grew up was just fine, WE and OUR culture produced ZERO school shooters thank you very much. Facts are emotionless. Youre over-emotional.

Just because killers changed their METHOD of killing doesnt magically mean we are producing MORE KILLERS. Culture's quite fine, again, we are producing LESS.

 

[Circe]

You can't just say a growing number of disturbed individuals in this country are not part of our culture. No, of course saying our culture has to own them doesn't mean everyone thinks like them or is disturbed or psychopathic like them. I know you personally didn't produce Cruz; neither did I. But he grew up right here in this US of A .

OL, you keep saying such very interesting things.

ARE crazy people part of our culture? I'm not sure! Nikolas Cruz was crazy, of course --- I guess we've all read the details. The system kept hoping he wasn't and acting like he wasn't, but wow, was he ever ------ he threw his mother up against the wall, we know because she immediately called the police, because she tried to stop him playing a video game (I think it WAS GTAuto!!)

I can relate to that a little....it is very annoying to be reminded it's time to make supper when one is trying to kill the Nightmare Typhon........as my husband weighs twice what I do, I don't throw him against the wall, I go make supper. Well, I hope I would even if I were beefier, because he's a total dreamboat.

But the truth is, schizophrenia exists, and Cruz was one. Most of the school shooters probably are schizos. It develops so FAST, no real warning, remember the Batman shooter? One season he's going to college, the next he's in a Batman costume shooting up a whole movie theater at midnight. The next photo is him pie-eyed with anti-psychotics in a courtroom, usual thing, like the guy who shot that congresswoman, just as fast a downturn in sanity, just as pie-eyed.

I THINK THE SCHIZOS HAVE THEIR OWN CULTURE. Radical idea, I know, but I've realized for years that schizophrenics have.....fashions! Like the Napoleon hand posture (and hats) in the late 1800s. That really happened. And the Jesus imitators that filled the asylums in the 1950s. I remember a schizo who thought he was God on a forum in the 1990s. I'm afraid his handle was "iamhe." People tried to talk him out of it --- yeah, that really worked. Finally the listowner was creeped out by him and she banned God. Can't say everyone has done that!

We KNOW these guys follow each other and compete: the police are clear about that. They all start with Columbine (there was a young girl with a 22 rifle who killed a lot of kids much earlier, but of course they don't start with her because she was a girl.......I read a book about her. What a story.) and they absolutely do keep score, how many are killed compared to each other. This is well studied --- but what can anyone do about it? No one ever knows they are competing, until the shooting starts.

I think this is temporary. Schizo culture. Like the separate kid culture ---
Jump rope rhymes, game rhymes.

Mary Rose,
Send for the doctor
Mama has a newborn
Baaaaaby.
It's not a girl
It's not a boy
It's just a newborn
Baaaaaaby.

Yow, that one came from jumprope memory from a VERY long time ago. Stephen King writes about children cultures, a very interesting phenomenon. He wrote a whole novel about one child culture ---- Pet Sematary.

I think there are schizophrenic cultures and these school shootings, which all happen at the age when schizophrenia appears if it's going to, are a way to act out their severe mental illness.

 

[Circe]

You can't say we're fine because WE. ARE. NOT.

Oh, you think? What was your first clue?

If people think we as a nation are just fine, I hope it's because they are very young, because the alternative is they are very stupid.

The last time we were as "just fine" as this, we had a Civil War that killed more Americans than all wars since to this day, including WWI, II, Korea, Vietnam, and the late stupid losing forever wars.