After The Fire

[PoliticalChic]

10.Seems that the great minds of the Left, the ‘three witches,’ Freud, Darwin, Marx, whose ideas support the mechanistic and materialistic views of mankind and his place in the universe, are nothing but liars and charlatans.




But they are useful toward this end, the totalitarian end:

"We can see that all elements of the socialist ideal--the abolition of private property, family, hierarchies; the hostility toward religion--could be regarded as a manifestation of one basic principle: the suppression of individuality.... All this is inspired by one principle--the destruction of individuality or, at least, its suppression to the point where it would cease to be a social force. "
Igor Shafarevich
The Socialist Phenomenon The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich






On the other side, "This is the great contribution of our Judeo-Christian foundation to Western civilization. The principles of justice are laid down in the Torah and the Gospels, and implemented through human actions memorialized in judicial codes.

The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience."
David Mamet




Where do we go, unmoored from the spiritual views that supported us for thousands of years, adrift and possible under the thumb of a party now running on full-blown anti-white racism, socialism, infanticide, opposition to free speech, substituting illegal alien voters for the American citizenry, and anti-Semitism…


Does Western Civilization spiral down into the abyss, or is there a way back? Or is there a Phoenix-like chapter that ends the story?

Looking around us, it is difficult to be optimistic.

 

[night_son]

What could be more appropriate for the forces of anti-civilization, than to be be led by witches.......



5. We began a journey following the paths of Moses and Jesus, and then, at some point had taken the wrong fork in the road, this one following the three witches, Freud, Marx and Darwin.

It is understandable. The Enlightenment offered science and reason in place of the more difficult path, one with personal responsibility, and ‘what is good’ could be replaced with ‘what is good for me.’ “Scientific discovery rapidly increased following the Enlightenment, with the average life expectancy in Europe in 1850 at 36.3 years old; by 1950, that number had nearly doubled, to 64.7. Life Expectancy


6. While Judeo-Christian values combined individual worth with reason and free will, Sigmund Freud denied free will, and posited a life of forced actions and neurosis based on childhood events.




Acceptance of all or any of ‘the three witches’ is based on believing lies....I'll prove this in this thread.

Please add Hegel, Thomas More, Diderot and de Sade to your list of ideological witches. From Hegel, his civilization destroying dialectic. From More, Utopia. From Diderot Le Encyclopédie. From de Sade, the modern "abortion is cool" movement.

Edit: fascinating thread. Sadly, the value of the knowledge it contains will be lost on many.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What could be more appropriate for the forces of anti-civilization, than to be be led by witches.......



5. We began a journey following the paths of Moses and Jesus, and then, at some point had taken the wrong fork in the road, this one following the three witches, Freud, Marx and Darwin.

It is understandable. The Enlightenment offered science and reason in place of the more difficult path, one with personal responsibility, and ‘what is good’ could be replaced with ‘what is good for me.’ “Scientific discovery rapidly increased following the Enlightenment, with the average life expectancy in Europe in 1850 at 36.3 years old; by 1950, that number had nearly doubled, to 64.7. Life Expectancy


6. While Judeo-Christian values combined individual worth with reason and free will, Sigmund Freud denied free will, and posited a life of forced actions and neurosis based on childhood events.




Acceptance of all or any of ‘the three witches’ is based on believing lies....I'll prove this in this thread.

Please add Hegel, Thomas More, Diderot and de Sade to your list of ideological witches. From Hegel, his civilization destroying dialectic. From More, Utopia. From Diderot Le Encyclopédie. From de Sade, the modern "abortion is cool" movement.

Edit: fascinating thread. Sadly, the value of the knowledge it contains will be lost on many.

Yup!

A valuable addition!

Especially Hegel....

Hegel said “The state says … you must obey …. The state has rights against the individual; its members have obligations, among them that of obeying without protest”


And thank you, NS

 

[kyzr]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

One of them more interesting threads and ops I have seen in a while.

Consider this view point and how it relates.

Most religions give us creation myths.Usually or always these myths may be preposterous in the sense that they are unrealistic and incredible fiction. But in the days of pre modern science they gave people things that were needed such a as a starting point for civilization and a clear standard to build on. Most fictional myths give a standard of good and evil. As well as a sense of identification for self even if only the inner self.
Many flaws can be identified and seen in Judaeo Christian creation myth.These myths are by no means true or perfect. However in the long run these myths may be better than what is replacing them.

Today creation myth is being replaced by real events which are not myth but which replace creation myth and fill the same basic roles to the detriment of those embracing them as a basis for religion.

In America this event is the civil war.We live in the post civil war era. Our country is now called THE United states as opposed to THESE united states. Anything pre-civil war is seen as evil or tainted. Even the magnificent and glorious achievements of the founding fathers is seen as evil because they owned slaves. Historians may debate why the civil war was fought but the general idea on the left is that it was the starting point of the war against racism which still rages today. Racism is seen as the ultimate evil and any stand against it is the ultimate good.

Also in America and throughout Europe WWII is seen as a starting point replacing creation myth. The holocaust and Hitler are the greatest of evils. They were evil of course but not the worst or biggest evil. We and Europe view the current era as POST WWII with Hitler and the holocaust being the starting point. All the achievements of western civilization pre-WWII are ignored by most. Western Civilization is no longer the beacon or standard for the rest of the world to emulate unless it is post WWII, despite the fact that western civilization is demonstrably superior to any other civilization in many ways long before WWII. The crusades are considered racist and mistaken as aggressive wars against Muslims despite the fact that the opposite is true.

Any opposition to Hitler and Nazism is good even decades later and even by Marxists who are equally evil. The war against Japan is considered racist while the war against Hitler was a righteous cause even though the Japanese were as bad as the third Reich and attacked the US.

Replacing old and bizarre creation myths is not necessarily a bad thing but what they have been replaced with is destructive. Europeans and Americans are now taught to hate themselves and their civilization because of historic events which are now considered the starting point for where we are.

Science may well dispel creation myths but in doing so it left a vacuum which we have allowed to be filled with some really terrible ideas.

Without going full cosmology on your post, creation is creation, there is no substitute.
What really happened at t=0? How much do we currently understand?
There are two good books on creation:
1. (without God) is "God and the Multiverse" by Victor J. Stenger
2. (with God) is "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch

They are both good. Stenger does a lot more tap dancing, and is thicker.
So I disagree with your last sentence, as science evolves we get deeper into understanding what really happened at creation.

 

[Soupnazi630]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

One of them more interesting threads and ops I have seen in a while.

Consider this view point and how it relates.

Most religions give us creation myths.Usually or always these myths may be preposterous in the sense that they are unrealistic and incredible fiction. But in the days of pre modern science they gave people things that were needed such a as a starting point for civilization and a clear standard to build on. Most fictional myths give a standard of good and evil. As well as a sense of identification for self even if only the inner self.
Many flaws can be identified and seen in Judaeo Christian creation myth.These myths are by no means true or perfect. However in the long run these myths may be better than what is replacing them.

Today creation myth is being replaced by real events which are not myth but which replace creation myth and fill the same basic roles to the detriment of those embracing them as a basis for religion.

In America this event is the civil war.We live in the post civil war era. Our country is now called THE United states as opposed to THESE united states. Anything pre-civil war is seen as evil or tainted. Even the magnificent and glorious achievements of the founding fathers is seen as evil because they owned slaves. Historians may debate why the civil war was fought but the general idea on the left is that it was the starting point of the war against racism which still rages today. Racism is seen as the ultimate evil and any stand against it is the ultimate good.

Also in America and throughout Europe WWII is seen as a starting point replacing creation myth. The holocaust and Hitler are the greatest of evils. They were evil of course but not the worst or biggest evil. We and Europe view the current era as POST WWII with Hitler and the holocaust being the starting point. All the achievements of western civilization pre-WWII are ignored by most. Western Civilization is no longer the beacon or standard for the rest of the world to emulate unless it is post WWII, despite the fact that western civilization is demonstrably superior to any other civilization in many ways long before WWII. The crusades are considered racist and mistaken as aggressive wars against Muslims despite the fact that the opposite is true.

Any opposition to Hitler and Nazism is good even decades later and even by Marxists who are equally evil. The war against Japan is considered racist while the war against Hitler was a righteous cause even though the Japanese were as bad as the third Reich and attacked the US.

Replacing old and bizarre creation myths is not necessarily a bad thing but what they have been replaced with is destructive. Europeans and Americans are now taught to hate themselves and their civilization because of historic events which are now considered the starting point for where we are.

Science may well dispel creation myths but in doing so it left a vacuum which we have allowed to be filled with some really terrible ideas.

Without going full cosmology on your post, creation is creation, there is no substitute.
What really happened at t=0? How much do we currently understand?
There are two good books on creation:
1. (without God) is "God and the Multiverse" by Victor J. Stenger
2. (with God) is "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch

They are both good. Stenger does a lot more tap dancing, and is thicker.
So I disagree with your last sentence, as science evolves we get deeper into understanding what really happened at creation.

Yes and I do not disagree

Maybe I was not clear.

It is not that I disagree with cosmology it simply does not perform the same functions as religions. When we began to dispell creation myths with science we failed to provide a philosophical foundation which religion provided.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization.

Actually, western civilization originates from the ancient polytheistic Greeks, and spread through the Romans. Monotheism began out east, in Persia, with Zoroastrianism. So at least your thread title ends up being ironic, even if the thread itself fails at step one.

 

[kyzr]

1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization.

Actually, western civilization originates from the ancient polytheistic Greeks, and spread through the Romans. Monotheism began out east, in Persia, with Zoroastrianism. So at least your thread title ends up being ironic, even if the thread itself fails at step one.

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

One of them more interesting threads and ops I have seen in a while.

Consider this view point and how it relates.

Most religions give us creation myths.Usually or always these myths may be preposterous in the sense that they are unrealistic and incredible fiction. But in the days of pre modern science they gave people things that were needed such a as a starting point for civilization and a clear standard to build on. Most fictional myths give a standard of good and evil. As well as a sense of identification for self even if only the inner self.
Many flaws can be identified and seen in Judaeo Christian creation myth.These myths are by no means true or perfect. However in the long run these myths may be better than what is replacing them.

Today creation myth is being replaced by real events which are not myth but which replace creation myth and fill the same basic roles to the detriment of those embracing them as a basis for religion.

In America this event is the civil war.We live in the post civil war era. Our country is now called THE United states as opposed to THESE united states. Anything pre-civil war is seen as evil or tainted. Even the magnificent and glorious achievements of the founding fathers is seen as evil because they owned slaves. Historians may debate why the civil war was fought but the general idea on the left is that it was the starting point of the war against racism which still rages today. Racism is seen as the ultimate evil and any stand against it is the ultimate good.

Also in America and throughout Europe WWII is seen as a starting point replacing creation myth. The holocaust and Hitler are the greatest of evils. They were evil of course but not the worst or biggest evil. We and Europe view the current era as POST WWII with Hitler and the holocaust being the starting point. All the achievements of western civilization pre-WWII are ignored by most. Western Civilization is no longer the beacon or standard for the rest of the world to emulate unless it is post WWII, despite the fact that western civilization is demonstrably superior to any other civilization in many ways long before WWII. The crusades are considered racist and mistaken as aggressive wars against Muslims despite the fact that the opposite is true.

Any opposition to Hitler and Nazism is good even decades later and even by Marxists who are equally evil. The war against Japan is considered racist while the war against Hitler was a righteous cause even though the Japanese were as bad as the third Reich and attacked the US.

Replacing old and bizarre creation myths is not necessarily a bad thing but what they have been replaced with is destructive. Europeans and Americans are now taught to hate themselves and their civilization because of historic events which are now considered the starting point for where we are.

Science may well dispel creation myths but in doing so it left a vacuum which we have allowed to be filled with some really terrible ideas.

Without going full cosmology on your post, creation is creation, there is no substitute.
What really happened at t=0? How much do we currently understand?
There are two good books on creation:
1. (without God) is "God and the Multiverse" by Victor J. Stenger
2. (with God) is "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch

They are both good. Stenger does a lot more tap dancing, and is thicker.
So I disagree with your last sentence, as science evolves we get deeper into understanding what really happened at creation.

Yes and I do not disagree

Maybe I was not clear.

It is not that I disagree with cosmology it simply does not perform the same functions as religions. When we began to dispel creation myths with science we failed to provide a philosophical foundation which religion provided.

Ironic doesn't begin to describe it, especially if you follow Nostradamus' prophesy.

 

[kyzr]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

One of them more interesting threads and ops I have seen in a while.

Consider this view point and how it relates.

Most religions give us creation myths.Usually or always these myths may be preposterous in the sense that they are unrealistic and incredible fiction. But in the days of pre modern science they gave people things that were needed such a as a starting point for civilization and a clear standard to build on. Most fictional myths give a standard of good and evil. As well as a sense of identification for self even if only the inner self.
Many flaws can be identified and seen in Judaeo Christian creation myth.These myths are by no means true or perfect. However in the long run these myths may be better than what is replacing them.

Today creation myth is being replaced by real events which are not myth but which replace creation myth and fill the same basic roles to the detriment of those embracing them as a basis for religion.

In America this event is the civil war.We live in the post civil war era. Our country is now called THE United states as opposed to THESE united states. Anything pre-civil war is seen as evil or tainted. Even the magnificent and glorious achievements of the founding fathers is seen as evil because they owned slaves. Historians may debate why the civil war was fought but the general idea on the left is that it was the starting point of the war against racism which still rages today. Racism is seen as the ultimate evil and any stand against it is the ultimate good.

Also in America and throughout Europe WWII is seen as a starting point replacing creation myth. The holocaust and Hitler are the greatest of evils. They were evil of course but not the worst or biggest evil. We and Europe view the current era as POST WWII with Hitler and the holocaust being the starting point. All the achievements of western civilization pre-WWII are ignored by most. Western Civilization is no longer the beacon or standard for the rest of the world to emulate unless it is post WWII, despite the fact that western civilization is demonstrably superior to any other civilization in many ways long before WWII. The crusades are considered racist and mistaken as aggressive wars against Muslims despite the fact that the opposite is true.

Any opposition to Hitler and Nazism is good even decades later and even by Marxists who are equally evil. The war against Japan is considered racist while the war against Hitler was a righteous cause even though the Japanese were as bad as the third Reich and attacked the US.

Replacing old and bizarre creation myths is not necessarily a bad thing but what they have been replaced with is destructive. Europeans and Americans are now taught to hate themselves and their civilization because of historic events which are now considered the starting point for where we are.

Science may well dispel creation myths but in doing so it left a vacuum which we have allowed to be filled with some really terrible ideas.

Without going full cosmology on your post, creation is creation, there is no substitute.
What really happened at t=0? How much do we currently understand?
There are two good books on creation:
1. (without God) is "God and the Multiverse" by Victor J. Stenger
2. (with God) is "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch

They are both good. Stenger does a lot more tap dancing, and is thicker.
So I disagree with your last sentence, as science evolves we get deeper into understanding what really happened at creation.

Yes and I do not disagree

Maybe I was not clear.

It is not that I disagree with cosmology it simply does not perform the same functions as religions. When we began to dispel creation myths with science we failed to provide a philosophical foundation which religion provided.

Who is this "we" that failed? Which religion provided what? When man has "free will" and the entire universe at his disposal, anything can happen, and usually does, over time. I'm not sure what your point is???

 

[Soupnazi630]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

One of them more interesting threads and ops I have seen in a while.

Consider this view point and how it relates.

Most religions give us creation myths.Usually or always these myths may be preposterous in the sense that they are unrealistic and incredible fiction. But in the days of pre modern science they gave people things that were needed such a as a starting point for civilization and a clear standard to build on. Most fictional myths give a standard of good and evil. As well as a sense of identification for self even if only the inner self.
Many flaws can be identified and seen in Judaeo Christian creation myth.These myths are by no means true or perfect. However in the long run these myths may be better than what is replacing them.

Today creation myth is being replaced by real events which are not myth but which replace creation myth and fill the same basic roles to the detriment of those embracing them as a basis for religion.

In America this event is the civil war.We live in the post civil war era. Our country is now called THE United states as opposed to THESE united states. Anything pre-civil war is seen as evil or tainted. Even the magnificent and glorious achievements of the founding fathers is seen as evil because they owned slaves. Historians may debate why the civil war was fought but the general idea on the left is that it was the starting point of the war against racism which still rages today. Racism is seen as the ultimate evil and any stand against it is the ultimate good.

Also in America and throughout Europe WWII is seen as a starting point replacing creation myth. The holocaust and Hitler are the greatest of evils. They were evil of course but not the worst or biggest evil. We and Europe view the current era as POST WWII with Hitler and the holocaust being the starting point. All the achievements of western civilization pre-WWII are ignored by most. Western Civilization is no longer the beacon or standard for the rest of the world to emulate unless it is post WWII, despite the fact that western civilization is demonstrably superior to any other civilization in many ways long before WWII. The crusades are considered racist and mistaken as aggressive wars against Muslims despite the fact that the opposite is true.

Any opposition to Hitler and Nazism is good even decades later and even by Marxists who are equally evil. The war against Japan is considered racist while the war against Hitler was a righteous cause even though the Japanese were as bad as the third Reich and attacked the US.

Replacing old and bizarre creation myths is not necessarily a bad thing but what they have been replaced with is destructive. Europeans and Americans are now taught to hate themselves and their civilization because of historic events which are now considered the starting point for where we are.

Science may well dispel creation myths but in doing so it left a vacuum which we have allowed to be filled with some really terrible ideas.

Without going full cosmology on your post, creation is creation, there is no substitute.
What really happened at t=0? How much do we currently understand?
There are two good books on creation:
1. (without God) is "God and the Multiverse" by Victor J. Stenger
2. (with God) is "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch

They are both good. Stenger does a lot more tap dancing, and is thicker.
So I disagree with your last sentence, as science evolves we get deeper into understanding what really happened at creation.

Yes and I do not disagree

Maybe I was not clear.

It is not that I disagree with cosmology it simply does not perform the same functions as religions. When we began to dispel creation myths with science we failed to provide a philosophical foundation which religion provided.

Who is this "we" that failed? Which religion provided what? When man has "free will" and the entire universe at his disposal, anything can happen, and usually does, over time. I'm not sure what your point is???

All of them did

Christianity did so for Western culture.

Now we only have self loathing and oppression of free will.

 

[danielpalos]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

i have a Happy camper policy.

 

[kyzr]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

One of them more interesting threads and ops I have seen in a while.

Consider this view point and how it relates.

Most religions give us creation myths.Usually or always these myths may be preposterous in the sense that they are unrealistic and incredible fiction. But in the days of pre modern science they gave people things that were needed such a as a starting point for civilization and a clear standard to build on. Most fictional myths give a standard of good and evil. As well as a sense of identification for self even if only the inner self.
Many flaws can be identified and seen in Judaeo Christian creation myth.These myths are by no means true or perfect. However in the long run these myths may be better than what is replacing them.

Today creation myth is being replaced by real events which are not myth but which replace creation myth and fill the same basic roles to the detriment of those embracing them as a basis for religion.

In America this event is the civil war.We live in the post civil war era. Our country is now called THE United states as opposed to THESE united states. Anything pre-civil war is seen as evil or tainted. Even the magnificent and glorious achievements of the founding fathers is seen as evil because they owned slaves. Historians may debate why the civil war was fought but the general idea on the left is that it was the starting point of the war against racism which still rages today. Racism is seen as the ultimate evil and any stand against it is the ultimate good.

Also in America and throughout Europe WWII is seen as a starting point replacing creation myth. The holocaust and Hitler are the greatest of evils. They were evil of course but not the worst or biggest evil. We and Europe view the current era as POST WWII with Hitler and the holocaust being the starting point. All the achievements of western civilization pre-WWII are ignored by most. Western Civilization is no longer the beacon or standard for the rest of the world to emulate unless it is post WWII, despite the fact that western civilization is demonstrably superior to any other civilization in many ways long before WWII. The crusades are considered racist and mistaken as aggressive wars against Muslims despite the fact that the opposite is true.

Any opposition to Hitler and Nazism is good even decades later and even by Marxists who are equally evil. The war against Japan is considered racist while the war against Hitler was a righteous cause even though the Japanese were as bad as the third Reich and attacked the US.

Replacing old and bizarre creation myths is not necessarily a bad thing but what they have been replaced with is destructive. Europeans and Americans are now taught to hate themselves and their civilization because of historic events which are now considered the starting point for where we are.

Science may well dispel creation myths but in doing so it left a vacuum which we have allowed to be filled with some really terrible ideas.

Without going full cosmology on your post, creation is creation, there is no substitute.
What really happened at t=0? How much do we currently understand?
There are two good books on creation:
1. (without God) is "God and the Multiverse" by Victor J. Stenger
2. (with God) is "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch

They are both good. Stenger does a lot more tap dancing, and is thicker.
So I disagree with your last sentence, as science evolves we get deeper into understanding what really happened at creation.

Yes and I do not disagree

Maybe I was not clear.

It is not that I disagree with cosmology it simply does not perform the same functions as religions. When we began to dispel creation myths with science we failed to provide a philosophical foundation which religion provided.

Who is this "we" that failed? Which religion provided what? When man has "free will" and the entire universe at his disposal, anything can happen, and usually does, over time. I'm not sure what your point is???

All of them did

Christianity did so for Western culture.

Now we only have self loathing and oppression of free will.

I hope that's not all we have now?? WTF?? If that's all you have you won't last long on USMB. <g>

 

[Toronado3800]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

Mlre devisive talk about "real Americans" and left vs right. Amazing in this world of fluid political beliefs anyone with longer than a snapshot attention span can do soo much team cheerleading.

Why would I wish to march shoulder to shoulder with evil????


After all, I'm not you.



Real Americans march with the Founders of this once great nation, and support their view: individualism, free markets and limited constitutional government.


The Left, which you'd rather suggest doesn't exist, champions this:
The collective, command and control regulation of private industry, and overarching government that can order every aspect of the private citizen's life....right down to control of his thoughts and speech.

That would include Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Progressives, Nazis and Fascists.

Raise your paw.

You misunderstood what you read.

What's left today will be right tomorrow. We're talking political parties here not hands and its a fluid situation.

But yeah, keep cheering for right or left as your handlers demand even if it means you have to change your beliefs frequently.

 

[McRocket]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

You think I am going to read all that blather?

I scanned it and saw a bunch of God Club stuff and something about Bernie Sanders leading in fundraising.

1) all major religions are for the weak and/or the ignorant and/or the desperate - no exceptions. It's all utter, 'leap-of-faith' nonsense.

2) fundraising means absolutely NOTHING to campaigns today...didn't you Trumpbots learn that from 2016?

Biden is MILES ahead of Sanders in the polls - that counts. Fundraising doesn't.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination

And before you Trumpbots claim that the polls were wrong in 2016...NOPE. They were dead right. They said Clinton would barely win the popular vote...and she did. They were dead right.

The Dem nomination is Biden's to lose. Sanders is WAAAY too far left to win.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

You think I am going to read all that blather?

I scanned it and saw a bunch of God Club stuff and something about Bernie Sanders leading in fundraising.

1) all major religions are for the weak and/or the ignorant and/or the desperate - no exceptions. It's all utter, 'leap-of-faith' nonsense.

2) fundraising means absolutely NOTHING to campaigns today...didn't you Trumpbots learn that from 2016?

Biden is MILES ahead of Sanders in the polls - that counts. Fundraising doesn't.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination

And before you Trumpbots claim that the polls were wrong in 2016...NOPE. They were dead right. They said Clinton would barely win the popular vote...and she did. They were dead right.

The Dem nomination is Biden's to lose. Sanders is WAAAY too far left to win.

Hillary lost. And biden is way too stupid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

Mlre devisive talk about "real Americans" and left vs right. Amazing in this world of fluid political beliefs anyone with longer than a snapshot attention span can do soo much team cheerleading.

Why would I wish to march shoulder to shoulder with evil????


After all, I'm not you.



Real Americans march with the Founders of this once great nation, and support their view: individualism, free markets and limited constitutional government.


The Left, which you'd rather suggest doesn't exist, champions this:
The collective, command and control regulation of private industry, and overarching government that can order every aspect of the private citizen's life....right down to control of his thoughts and speech.

That would include Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Progressives, Nazis and Fascists.

Raise your paw.

You misunderstood what you read.

What's left today will be right tomorrow. We're talking political parties here not hands and its a fluid situation.

But yeah, keep cheering for right or left as your handlers demand even if it means you have to change your beliefs frequently.

I have no 'handlers.'


I serve only truth and knowledge.

 

[PoliticalChic]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

You think I am going to read all that blather?

I scanned it and saw a bunch of God Club stuff and something about Bernie Sanders leading in fundraising.

1) all major religions are for the weak and/or the ignorant and/or the desperate - no exceptions. It's all utter, 'leap-of-faith' nonsense.

2) fundraising means absolutely NOTHING to campaigns today...didn't you Trumpbots learn that from 2016?

Biden is MILES ahead of Sanders in the polls - that counts. Fundraising doesn't.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination

And before you Trumpbots claim that the polls were wrong in 2016...NOPE. They were dead right. They said Clinton would barely win the popular vote...and she did. They were dead right.

The Dem nomination is Biden's to lose. Sanders is WAAAY too far left to win.

It was clear long ago that reading isn't your strong suit.....nor is thinking.........you fit in here like a Pork BBQ pit in Mecca.


Don't let the door hit ya,' worm.

 

[JoeB131]

1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.

Actually, "Western Civilization" was started by Greece and Rome, which were Polytheistic. They had more to do with the "house" than the monotheistic little tribe in Palestine.

Then the Roman Empire adopted a heresy from that religion, and we got the Dark Ages, or as I like to refer to it "The First Faith Based Program". They burned all the pagan books and civilization backslide hundreds of years.

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.

Again, the folks in Athens were Polytheists...

5. We began a journey following the paths of Moses and Jesus, and then, at some point had taken the wrong fork in the road, this one following the three witches, Freud, Marx and Darwin.

Oh, damn. REALLY? Yes, science is evil. While I'm sure you could vastly benefit from someone versed in the teaching of Freud, the fact is, Science and philosophy don't cause people to do bad stuff. People do that.

“How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”
~ Ronald Reagan

Did he say this before or after he pooped himself in a senile blathering?

 

[22lcidw]

1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.

Actually, "Western Civilization" was started by Greece and Rome, which were Polytheistic. They had more to do with the "house" than the monotheistic little tribe in Palestine.

Then the Roman Empire adopted a heresy from that religion, and we got the Dark Ages, or as I like to refer to it "The First Faith Based Program". They burned all the pagan books and civilization backslide hundreds of years.

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.

Again, the folks in Athens were Polytheists...

5. We began a journey following the paths of Moses and Jesus, and then, at some point had taken the wrong fork in the road, this one following the three witches, Freud, Marx and Darwin.

Oh, damn. REALLY? Yes, science is evil. While I'm sure you could vastly benefit from someone versed in the teaching of Freud, the fact is, Science and philosophy don't cause people to do bad stuff. People do that.

“How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”
~ Ronald Reagan

Did he say this before or after he pooped himself in a senile blathering?

Then you got one of the most advanced eras in human history with the middle ages in Europe while in Africa they were still developing the wheel.

 

[kyzr]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

Mlre devisive talk about "real Americans" and left vs right. Amazing in this world of fluid political beliefs anyone with longer than a snapshot attention span can do soo much team cheerleading.

Why would I wish to march shoulder to shoulder with evil????


After all, I'm not you.



Real Americans march with the Founders of this once great nation, and support their view: individualism, free markets and limited constitutional government.


The Left, which you'd rather suggest doesn't exist, champions this:
The collective, command and control regulation of private industry, and overarching government that can order every aspect of the private citizen's life....right down to control of his thoughts and speech.

That would include Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Progressives, Nazis and Fascists.

Raise your paw.

You misunderstood what you read.

What's left today will be right tomorrow. We're talking political parties here not hands and its a fluid situation.

But yeah, keep cheering for right or left as your handlers demand even if it means you have to change your beliefs frequently.

I have no 'handlers.'

I serve only truth and knowledge.

From your OP:
"After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization."

I think I disagree with your summary statement. We "Real Americans" are still here battling the forces of evil. I thank you for your intelligent discussions. The US should be fine unless we let the Leftists take power and change the fabric of the nation. We dodged a bullet in 2016, we need to finish the job in 2020.
Your philosophical discussions about philosophy or religion are irrelevant, those are not governing systems, its about keeping free people free and prosperous in spite of the wealthy and the deep state and foreign powers, and the Founding Fathers did an amazing job. I nominate them as the best of the "philosophers" in history.

 

[PoliticalChic]

….will there be more than a pile of ashes?



1.Three millennia ago, due to the start of monotheism, humanity began to construct the ‘house’ we live in today, the palace known as Western Civilization. Genesis 1:26 suddenly made every individual special, and made the argument against slavery.
In 1215, the Magna Carta underscored the premise with this language:
“Know ye, that we, in the presence of God, and for the salvation of our soul, and the souls of all our ancestors and heirs,….”
1215: Magna Carta - Online Library of Liberty

2.We’ve built western civilization on two pillars: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
“If you believe that government has no right to intrude upon the exercise of your individual will, that you have a moral duty to be virtuous, that human beings are capable of bettering the world through the use of reason, you are a product of Jerusalem and Athens.”
Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History.”





3. The Enlightenment shattered the congruence of the two aspects, science and reason replacing religion and morality. There could only be one outcome, and Dostoyevsky recognized it. He saw that reason and science were being touted as the only guides that mankind needed….and he didn’t accept same.
“Human beings are creatures that seek more than which reason and science purport to give them- and they are more than the self-interested animals reason and science seek to make them. ….freed from moral responsibility….[they] would burst forth in a conflagration that will set the whole world on fire, Dostoyevsky predicted.

God’s death, Dostoyevsky thought, was man’s death as well.”
Shapiro, Op.Cit., p.117


Between WWII and the ascendancy of socialism/communism, nearly 200 million men, women, and children perished.




4. Rather than a retrenchment in faith and religion, "The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“… the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 53


"Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner
...surpassing his rivals in early fundraising and establishing himself as an indisputable front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination."
Bernie Sanders Finds Himself in a New Role as Front-Runner | RealClearPolitics


A Marxist as the Democrat standard-bearer???? Yup.





After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization.

Mlre devisive talk about "real Americans" and left vs right. Amazing in this world of fluid political beliefs anyone with longer than a snapshot attention span can do soo much team cheerleading.

Why would I wish to march shoulder to shoulder with evil????


After all, I'm not you.



Real Americans march with the Founders of this once great nation, and support their view: individualism, free markets and limited constitutional government.


The Left, which you'd rather suggest doesn't exist, champions this:
The collective, command and control regulation of private industry, and overarching government that can order every aspect of the private citizen's life....right down to control of his thoughts and speech.

That would include Communists, Socialists, Liberals, Progressives, Nazis and Fascists.

Raise your paw.

You misunderstood what you read.

What's left today will be right tomorrow. We're talking political parties here not hands and its a fluid situation.

But yeah, keep cheering for right or left as your handlers demand even if it means you have to change your beliefs frequently.

I have no 'handlers.'

I serve only truth and knowledge.

From your OP:
"After the fire…..a pile of ashes. Real Americans are simply basking in the afterglow of a once great nation and civilization."

I think I disagree with your summary statement. We "Real Americans" are still here battling the forces of evil. I thank you for your intelligent discussions. The US should be fine unless we let the Leftists take power and change the fabric of the nation. We dodged a bullet in 2016, we need to finish the job in 2020.
Your philosophical discussions about philosophy or religion are irrelevant, those are not governing systems, its about keeping free people free and prosperous in spite of the wealthy and the deep state and foreign powers, and the Founding Fathers did an amazing job. I nominate them as the best of the "philosophers" in history.

Lots of good points in your post, K, and I certainly wish I could have the faith you have in the final outcome.....I suppose, as a person of faith, I should.

But, it find it difficult to do so.

"unless we let the Leftists take power and change the fabric of the nation"
I never stop fighting, and do my part in providing posts which refute the lies the Left advances.


But as long as they own the schools, it will be more than an uphill fight.
Abraham Lincoln is credited with saying that the philosophy of the classroom in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.







"Your philosophical discussions about philosophy or religion are irrelevant, those are not governing systems,"

You couldn't be more wrong. Why do you suppose the Founders, who wrote the governing documents, quoted the Bible more frequently than any other source.



If you are looking for governing systems that do not include religion and 'philosophy,' look at every totalitarian regime.
You will find neither freedom nor prosperity.
You will find theft, coercion, and the law of the jungle.