Again the CBO says the stim pack worked

[The Rabbi]

I haven't placed this question in several different threads. If you don't want to answer the question, then move along.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/170030-obama-stimulus-is-failed-23.html

So what answer will satisfy you since you have rejected the same answer many times? Or do you think merely asking the same question over and over validates it?

You are a joke. Of the 370 posts on the thread you linked I posted just once. I asked: "would the UE be lower without the stimulus"?

Are you delusional?

I post proof. You deny it. And I'm the delusional one?
Why don't you answer the question?

 

[Truthmatters]

Why is it these people think there is NO way to tell it worked?

There is ample evidence it worked and most economists say so.

 

[daveman]

I'm basing it on what has happened since the $3 + billion dollars in stimulus funds ran out.

So you're saying the jobs created were merely temporary?

Gee. Weren't conservatives warning you about that?

They used the funds to balance the states budget.

So it didn't create any jobs?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quit lying about what I said you partisan hack

You didn't say this?

Yes it was too long in tax cuts and too small in real stimulus

Did someone hack your account and post that? Should we call the police? congressman Weiner? I understand that he had a similar problem recently, he might be able to help.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why is it these people think there is NO way to tell it worked?

There is ample evidence it worked and most economists say so.

Most economists do not say so.

 

[The Rabbi]

So now we see that the Left and fellow travelers have no response other than to deny the goals laid out for the stimulus and to declare the stimulus worked because, who knows what would have happened otherwise.

I know that over 9% unemployment, paltry job creation, weak GDP growth under 2% and deficits approaching 90% of GDP are failures for any policy. Almost any result woudl be better than that. And voters will agree. No one wants to be told "it could ahve been a lot worse." That's bullshit. They want to see what you've done with your 3 years in office, supermajorities in the Congress, and trillions in budgets. The answer is not pretty.

 

[Salt Jones]

So you're saying the jobs created were merely temporary?

Gee. Weren't conservatives warning you about that?

They used the funds to balance the states budget.

So it didn't create any jobs?

Yeah it created some jobs and fixed a lot of roads. But the vast majority of the money went to fix the budget crisis created by the republican controlled state legislature and Gov Napolatano. When your economy is based on building houses a housing downturn leaves you short of funds.

 

[Salt Jones]

So now we see that the Left and fellow travelers have no response other than to deny the goals laid out for the stimulus and to declare the stimulus worked because, who knows what would have happened otherwise.

I know that over 9% unemployment, paltry job creation, weak GDP growth under 2% and deficits approaching 90% of GDP are failures for any policy. Almost any result woudl be better than that. And voters will agree. No one wants to be told "it could ahve been a lot worse." That's bullshit. They want to see what you've done with your 3 years in office, supermajorities in the Congress, and trillions in budgets. The answer is not pretty.

Yet he will still win reelection, because his opponents created the mess and don't have a solution to fix it.

 

[Salt Jones]

Why is it these people think there is NO way to tell it worked?

There is ample evidence it worked and most economists say so.

Most economists do not say so.

Link, from both sides?

 

[boedicca]

Please provide any links showing that Obama was dissatisfied with the bill and unhappy to sign it.

It wasnt the same bill was it?

Did he sign it?

 

[Truthmatters]

A report card on the economic stimulus - St. Petersburg Times



To back up that claim, the council's report cited four independent analyses. These estimates were by the Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency that does the number-crunching for Congress, as well by three private-sector economic-analysis firms. Here's what those groups found:

• CBO: Between 800,000 jobs and 2.4 million jobs.

• IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs

• Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs

• Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs

 

[boedicca]

Yes unemployment is 9.1%, what would it have been without the stimulus? Or are you arguing that a stimulus was needed and President Obama's was just too small?

It's only 9.1% because the government no longer counts 3.6M people who have given up looking for work due to LACK OF JOBS. If they were counted, U3 Unemployment would be 11.2%

A shrinking Labor Force Participation Rate is a very damaging way to lower unemployment.

Just sayin'.

And how many presidents have used that calculation instead of the one we use now?

The ones before 1994.

Alternate Unemployment Charts

The seasonally-adjusted SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate reflects current unemployment reporting methodology adjusted for SGS-estimated long-term discouraged workers, who were defined out of official existence in 1994. That estimate is added to the BLS estimate of U-6 unemployment, which includes short-term discouraged workers.


This is why U6 unemployment is more meaningful. It's over 15% right now.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why is it these people think there is NO way to tell it worked?

There is ample evidence it worked and most economists say so.

Most economists do not say so.

Link, from both sides?

You should understand that it is impossible to prove that something did not happen and simply demand that the person that claims that something did happen provide the proof.

 

[The Rabbi]

So now we see that the Left and fellow travelers have no response other than to deny the goals laid out for the stimulus and to declare the stimulus worked because, who knows what would have happened otherwise.

I know that over 9% unemployment, paltry job creation, weak GDP growth under 2% and deficits approaching 90% of GDP are failures for any policy. Almost any result woudl be better than that. And voters will agree. No one wants to be told "it could ahve been a lot worse." That's bullshit. They want to see what you've done with your 3 years in office, supermajorities in the Congress, and trillions in budgets. The answer is not pretty.

Yet he will still win reelection, because his opponents created the mess and don't have a solution to fix it.

And Obama has had 3 years with supermajorities and hasn't fixed it? That's supposed to make people vote for him?

 

[Truthmatters]

Please provide any links showing that Obama was dissatisfied with the bill and unhappy to sign it.

It wasnt the same bill was it?

Did he sign it?

what does that have to do with the cold hard fact that the bill his team made the projection on was never passed?

 

[boedicca]

Yes unemployment is 9.1%, what would it have been without the stimulus? Or are you arguing that a stimulus was needed and President Obama's was just too small?

It's only 9.1% because the government no longer counts 3.6M people who have given up looking for work due to LACK OF JOBS. If they were counted, U3 Unemployment would be 11.2%

A shrinking Labor Force Participation Rate is a very damaging way to lower unemployment.

Just sayin'.

You didn't answer the questions:

Yes unemployment is 9.1% (11.2%), what would it have been without the stimulus? Or are you arguing that a stimulus was needed and President Obama's was just too small?

I'm saying that Keynesianism Doesn't Work. No amount of Stimulus Spending would have worked.

What works is:

- Low, fair, predicatable taxes
- A Rule of Law, not Regulators
- Free Trade
- Right To Work
- Less Regulation instead of More

 

[The Rabbi]

It wasnt the same bill was it?

Did he sign it?

what does that have to do with the cold hard fact that the bill his team made the projection on was never passed?

Did they protest the changes? Did they change their projections?
No.
You are full of shit.

 

[boedicca]

Recovery Act funds 599,108 jobs -- White House - Jan. 30, 2010
Then listen to the people who do report on it

How much did each of those jobs cost?

 

[boedicca]

I'm basing it on what has happened since the $3 + billion dollars in stimulus funds ran out.

So you're saying the jobs created were merely temporary?

Gee. Weren't conservatives warning you about that?

They used the funds to balance the states budget.

IOW, they diverted more money from the private sector, which could have been used to create real jobs, to keep bloated, overpaid, do nothing, public employee union bureaucrats on the government dole.

 

[boedicca]

Why is it these people think there is NO way to tell it worked?

There is ample evidence it worked and most economists say so.

When something is justified by a claim that it will achieve a certain result, and then it fails to achieve said result, that is Ample Evidence that it is a FAILURE.

Obamanomics = Epic Fail.