Alleged special treatment for first female Rangers

[charwin95]

If they didn't do it by the same rules and regulations the men do it they are not Rangers. I had by doubts about this. With that said if they went by the same rules and didn't get special treatment congratulations to them

Congressman Asks for Documents to Find Out Whether Women Got Special Treatment at Ranger School

A congressman who is a combat veteran and Ranger graduate has asked the Pentagon's top Army leader to produce documents related to the performance of the females who began Ranger School at Fort Benning, Georgia earlier this year, PEOPLE has learned.

In a letter obtained exclusively by PEOPLE, Rep. Steve Russell, R-Okla., gave outgoing Army Secretary John McHugh until September 25 to produce documents revealing the women's test scores, evaluations, injuries, pre-training and more. The letter was delivered to McHugh's Pentagon office on September 15.

"The training of our combat warriors is paramount to our national defense," Russell wrote to McHugh. "In order to ensure that the Army retains its ability to defend the nation, we must ensure that our readiness is not sacrificed."

The congressman is concerned because "sources at Fort Benning are coming forward to say the Army lied about women in Ranger School, that the women got special treatment and played by different rules," according to a Capitol Hill source with knowledge of why the letter was crafted. "These folks say one thing, the Army says another. Congress needs to know the truth, and Russell reached out to find it."

Congressman Asks for Documents to Find Out Whether Women Got Special Treatment at Ranger School

Think you could have made it?

Nope....and neither could you. I have my doubts any woman could

I made it thru Naval Flight training. That was good enough for me. And in what service did YOU serve, again? I forget what you told us.

I'm not surprised you made it....given a few factors BWAHAHAHAHAHA I never claimed to serve and it has no bearing on the topic, you're just trying your usual BS to derail the thread. Many talk about your antics

Since you are a female (I think). Should you be proud and supporting these female rangers that they made it this far?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

If they didn't do it by the same rules and regulations the men do it they are not Rangers. I had by doubts about this. With that said if they went by the same rules and didn't get special treatment congratulations to them

Congressman Asks for Documents to Find Out Whether Women Got Special Treatment at Ranger School

A congressman who is a combat veteran and Ranger graduate has asked the Pentagon's top Army leader to produce documents related to the performance of the females who began Ranger School at Fort Benning, Georgia earlier this year, PEOPLE has learned.

In a letter obtained exclusively by PEOPLE, Rep. Steve Russell, R-Okla., gave outgoing Army Secretary John McHugh until September 25 to produce documents revealing the women's test scores, evaluations, injuries, pre-training and more. The letter was delivered to McHugh's Pentagon office on September 15.

"The training of our combat warriors is paramount to our national defense," Russell wrote to McHugh. "In order to ensure that the Army retains its ability to defend the nation, we must ensure that our readiness is not sacrificed."

The congressman is concerned because "sources at Fort Benning are coming forward to say the Army lied about women in Ranger School, that the women got special treatment and played by different rules," according to a Capitol Hill source with knowledge of why the letter was crafted. "These folks say one thing, the Army says another. Congress needs to know the truth, and Russell reached out to find it."

Congressman Asks for Documents to Find Out Whether Women Got Special Treatment at Ranger School

Think you could have made it?

Nope....and neither could you. I have my doubts any woman could

I made it thru Naval Flight training. That was good enough for me. And in what service did YOU serve, again? I forget what you told us.

I'm not surprised you made it....given a few factors BWAHAHAHAHAHA I never claimed to serve and it has no bearing on the topic, you're just trying your usual BS to derail the thread. Many talk about your antics

Since you are a female (I think). Should you be proud and supporting these female rangers that they made it this far?

Dude, I've read enough of your garbage to know you're nuts. I doubt you are who you claim,way too many inconsistencies in your claims. In short, run along, I have no desire to read your holier than art thou drivel and BS

 

[pinqy]

Took them 3 times to get it...If they cheated then they should be kicked out, period.

I honesty believe that woman seriously weaken our military but if they did it fair and square. Well, they made the standards and my feelings simply don't matter.

There are a lot of men that have to retake certain qualifications more than once. It is a tough program even for the best of the best.

Actually, they were allowed to do some portions over twice...something men are rarely if ever allowed to do....

15% repeat the program. Of the class, three women and 78 men washed out the first day. I think its great the women passed even if two had to repeat the one course.

Actually, I saw a news report that said they were allowed to recycle through one of the phases 2 times, where a male candidate on a rare occasion gets to retake a phase once.

Retaking phases isn't that rare.

None of the eight women made it past the Darby Phase on the first try and were recycled, along with 101 of their male classmates, on May 8.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

101 out of 381 male soldiers were allowed to retry. Putting the odds at roughly 1 in 4 (26.5% or so) for male recruits. Where women were given double those odds, 2 in 5 (42% or so) But given the small sample size of 19 women, that isn't particularly compelling.

Now a second or third recycle, you may have a point.

After the second attempt at the Darby Phase, three female and two male students on May 29 were given the option of a Day One Recycle, which is a normal course procedure that's used when students struggle with one aspect of the course and excel at others, said officials at Fort Benning, Georgia.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

The odds for the men getting a second retry dropped to 1 in 50. For the women it remained a robust 3 in 8.Or a bit more than one third.

There was no mention of any man getting a third try. Putting the odds at approximately 0 in 2. Where all 3 women were given a 3rd try.

That may indicate favorable treatment. It should probably be checked out.

Maj Jim Hathaway, second in command at the Ranger School, has already addressed most of the concerns in a Facebook message: http://www.stripes.com/news/army/ra...mors-about-how-women-passed-training-1.363823

For the recycle issue: "The women were not afforded any advantage on recycles. They went through Darby Phase, recycled and were Darby inserts. Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle. This means they started Day 1 and had to complete the Ranger Assessment Phase a second time. There is no advantage to this. Would any of you volunteered to go through RAP week twice and take a Day 1 recycle? Most people would not as evident by the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined. The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new. Unless you have been part of the RTB leadership. . . and have sat on the academic boards you would not know how common it actually is."

But, as Maj Hathaway concluded...it doesn't matter what he or anyone else at the school says "The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we "gave" it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!"

 

[charwin95]

Think you could have made it?

Nope....and neither could you. I have my doubts any woman could

I made it thru Naval Flight training. That was good enough for me. And in what service did YOU serve, again? I forget what you told us.

I'm not surprised you made it....given a few factors BWAHAHAHAHAHA I never claimed to serve and it has no bearing on the topic, you're just trying your usual BS to derail the thread. Many talk about your antics

Since you are a female (I think). Should you be proud and supporting these female rangers that they made it this far?

Dude, I've read enough of your garbage to know you're nuts. I doubt you are who you claim,way too many inconsistencies in your claims. In short, run along, I have no desire to read your holier than art thou drivel and BS

Poor baby. Did I hurt your feelings?

 

[Skylar]

There are a lot of men that have to retake certain qualifications more than once. It is a tough program even for the best of the best.

Actually, they were allowed to do some portions over twice...something men are rarely if ever allowed to do....

15% repeat the program. Of the class, three women and 78 men washed out the first day. I think its great the women passed even if two had to repeat the one course.

Actually, I saw a news report that said they were allowed to recycle through one of the phases 2 times, where a male candidate on a rare occasion gets to retake a phase once.

Retaking phases isn't that rare.

None of the eight women made it past the Darby Phase on the first try and were recycled, along with 101 of their male classmates, on May 8.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

101 out of 381 male soldiers were allowed to retry. Putting the odds at roughly 1 in 4 (26.5% or so) for male recruits. Where women were given double those odds, 2 in 5 (42% or so) But given the small sample size of 19 women, that isn't particularly compelling.

Now a second or third recycle, you may have a point.

After the second attempt at the Darby Phase, three female and two male students on May 29 were given the option of a Day One Recycle, which is a normal course procedure that's used when students struggle with one aspect of the course and excel at others, said officials at Fort Benning, Georgia.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

The odds for the men getting a second retry dropped to 1 in 50. For the women it remained a robust 3 in 8.Or a bit more than one third.

There was no mention of any man getting a third try. Putting the odds at approximately 0 in 2. Where all 3 women were given a 3rd try.

That may indicate favorable treatment. It should probably be checked out.

Maj Jim Hathaway, second in command at the Ranger School, has already addressed most of the concerns in a Facebook message: Ranger School official combats rumors about how women passed training

For the recycle issue: "The women were not afforded any advantage on recycles. They went through Darby Phase, recycled and were Darby inserts. Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle. This means they started Day 1 and had to complete the Ranger Assessment Phase a second time. There is no advantage to this. Would any of you volunteered to go through RAP week twice and take a Day 1 recycle? Most people would not as evident by the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined. The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new. Unless you have been part of the RTB leadership. . . and have sat on the academic boards you would not know how common it actually is."

But, as Maj Hathaway concluded...it doesn't matter what he or anyone else at the school says "The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we "gave" it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!"

The numbers alone indicate otherwise. The initial retry sounds legit. Of 381 men, 101 were given a retry. About 26% in total. 42% of the women who started the course were given a 1st retry. Those numbers seem reasonably comparable.

The 2nd retry is rare. 2 were offered among the 101 men where offered . 3 of 8 women were offered a 2nd retry. That means if you were female you were about 17 times more likely to be offered a 2nd retry than if you were a man.

A 3rd retry is apparently very rare. As not a single man out of 381 men who started the school were offered the chance. All 3 women were offered a 3rd retry.

Those numbers don't support the Army's narrative. They could just be outliers based on small sampling size. 19 women in total, 8 at the first retry. 3 at the second, 3 at the third.

But if we reversed it and men were 17 times more likely to be given a second retry than women.....we'd definitely want to know why. And we'd definitely look into.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The odds for the men getting a second retry dropped to 1 in 50. For the women it remained a robust 3 in 8.Or a bit more than one third.

There was no mention of any man getting a third try. Putting the odds at approximately 0 in 2. Where all 3 women were given a 3rd try.

That may indicate favorable treatment. It should probably be checked out.

And that is going to leave questions about what level of training and how fit these women are for their entire careers.

And eventually the Army will lower the standards for everyone so that the regs can be followed as they do PC instead of training our best warriors.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Nope....and neither could you. I have my doubts any woman could

I made it thru Naval Flight training. That was good enough for me. And in what service did YOU serve, again? I forget what you told us.

I'm not surprised you made it....given a few factors BWAHAHAHAHAHA I never claimed to serve and it has no bearing on the topic, you're just trying your usual BS to derail the thread. Many talk about your antics

Since you are a female (I think). Should you be proud and supporting these female rangers that they made it this far?

Dude, I've read enough of your garbage to know you're nuts. I doubt you are who you claim,way too many inconsistencies in your claims. In short, run along, I have no desire to read your holier than art thou drivel and BS

Poor baby. Did I hurt your feelings?

Do you comprehend the word 'troll'?

Well, if not, just take a look in the mirror, idjit.

 

[Skylar]

The odds for the men getting a second retry dropped to 1 in 50. For the women it remained a robust 3 in 8.Or a bit more than one third.

There was no mention of any man getting a third try. Putting the odds at approximately 0 in 2. Where all 3 women were given a 3rd try.

That may indicate favorable treatment. It should probably be checked out.

And that is going to leave questions about what level of training and how fit these women are for their entire careers.

And eventually the Army will lower the standards for everyone so that the regs can be followed as they do PC instead of training our best warriors.

Frankly, I don't care about their individual fitness. I care about their impact on the unit. If including women, regardless of their fitness level, doesn't impact unit efficiency.....then let them join up and fight.

If including women, regardless of their level of fitness' does impact unit efficiency......then don't let them join up and fight.

As the capabilities of an indivudal solider are a much lower priority compared to the capability of the team.

 

[2aguy]

There are a lot of men that have to retake certain qualifications more than once. It is a tough program even for the best of the best.

Actually, they were allowed to do some portions over twice...something men are rarely if ever allowed to do....

15% repeat the program. Of the class, three women and 78 men washed out the first day. I think its great the women passed even if two had to repeat the one course.

Actually, I saw a news report that said they were allowed to recycle through one of the phases 2 times, where a male candidate on a rare occasion gets to retake a phase once.

Retaking phases isn't that rare.

None of the eight women made it past the Darby Phase on the first try and were recycled, along with 101 of their male classmates, on May 8.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

101 out of 381 male soldiers were allowed to retry. Putting the odds at roughly 1 in 4 (26.5% or so) for male recruits. Where women were given double those odds, 2 in 5 (42% or so) But given the small sample size of 19 women, that isn't particularly compelling.

Now a second or third recycle, you may have a point.

After the second attempt at the Darby Phase, three female and two male students on May 29 were given the option of a Day One Recycle, which is a normal course procedure that's used when students struggle with one aspect of the course and excel at others, said officials at Fort Benning, Georgia.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

The odds for the men getting a second retry dropped to 1 in 50. For the women it remained a robust 3 in 8.Or a bit more than one third.

There was no mention of any man getting a third try. Putting the odds at approximately 0 in 2. Where all 3 women were given a 3rd try.

That may indicate favorable treatment. It should probably be checked out.

Maj Jim Hathaway, second in command at the Ranger School, has already addressed most of the concerns in a Facebook message: Ranger School official combats rumors about how women passed training

For the recycle issue: "The women were not afforded any advantage on recycles. They went through Darby Phase, recycled and were Darby inserts. Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle. This means they started Day 1 and had to complete the Ranger Assessment Phase a second time. There is no advantage to this. Would any of you volunteered to go through RAP week twice and take a Day 1 recycle? Most people would not as evident by the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined. The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new. Unless you have been part of the RTB leadership. . . and have sat on the academic boards you would not know how common it actually is."

But, as Maj Hathaway concluded...it doesn't matter what he or anyone else at the school says "The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we "gave" it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!"

Did you completely miss this statement from your quote……

Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle.

They were given 3 shots at getting through the school…..men do not have that chance.

 

[pinqy]

Actually, they were allowed to do some portions over twice...something men are rarely if ever allowed to do....

15% repeat the program. Of the class, three women and 78 men washed out the first day. I think its great the women passed even if two had to repeat the one course.

Actually, I saw a news report that said they were allowed to recycle through one of the phases 2 times, where a male candidate on a rare occasion gets to retake a phase once.

Retaking phases isn't that rare.

None of the eight women made it past the Darby Phase on the first try and were recycled, along with 101 of their male classmates, on May 8.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

101 out of 381 male soldiers were allowed to retry. Putting the odds at roughly 1 in 4 (26.5% or so) for male recruits. Where women were given double those odds, 2 in 5 (42% or so) But given the small sample size of 19 women, that isn't particularly compelling.

Now a second or third recycle, you may have a point.

After the second attempt at the Darby Phase, three female and two male students on May 29 were given the option of a Day One Recycle, which is a normal course procedure that's used when students struggle with one aspect of the course and excel at others, said officials at Fort Benning, Georgia.

3rd try: 3 women to restart Ranger School Sunday

The odds for the men getting a second retry dropped to 1 in 50. For the women it remained a robust 3 in 8.Or a bit more than one third.

There was no mention of any man getting a third try. Putting the odds at approximately 0 in 2. Where all 3 women were given a 3rd try.

That may indicate favorable treatment. It should probably be checked out.

Maj Jim Hathaway, second in command at the Ranger School, has already addressed most of the concerns in a Facebook message: Ranger School official combats rumors about how women passed training

For the recycle issue: "The women were not afforded any advantage on recycles. They went through Darby Phase, recycled and were Darby inserts. Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle. This means they started Day 1 and had to complete the Ranger Assessment Phase a second time. There is no advantage to this. Would any of you volunteered to go through RAP week twice and take a Day 1 recycle? Most people would not as evident by the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined. The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new. Unless you have been part of the RTB leadership. . . and have sat on the academic boards you would not know how common it actually is."

But, as Maj Hathaway concluded...it doesn't matter what he or anyone else at the school says "The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we "gave" it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!"

Did you completely miss this statement from your quote……

Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle.

They were given 3 shots at getting through the school…..men do not have that chance.

How could you read "the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined." and get the idea that men do not have that chance? Or the part where he wrote "The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new." Are you claiming that it's been in place for many years but never to men?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Bitchy Irish Ass thinks that because she can't do something like this, then no woman can.

But, she knows an awful lot about the standards for never having served................