Am I alone in thinking wikileaks is a GOOD thing?

[loosecannon]

Just to be devil's advocate...

How can one believe all the information that can be found on Wikileaks any more than they can believe the information that can be found on MSNBC, FoxNews, CNN, Breitbart, or HuffPo?

Who's to say that Wikileaks is not an organization run by a foreigner who wants the United States to look bad, and thus makes up "documentation" proving such?

Who is to say that wikileaks is not a CIA opp? Marcos Moulitsas, founder of Daily Kos admits he was a CIA stooge, as did William F Buckley. How many propaganda depts do you believe exist within our intelligence community? Do you realize that since Rumsfeld our military has been treating the internet like a national security conflict zone?

How can you look at any media and not consider that it may be promoting content developed and disseminated by the DOD?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Wikileaks crossed the line and should be prosecuted and shut down.

You want the government to go after wikileaks and shut them down, jail its purveyor? Fine. But does it stop there? How about when it goes after FNC, CNN, the NYT, and other news sources? You really want to give them this precedent? This window to further power? Are you INSANE?

Wikileaks accepted stolen data, published it , and are profiting from it- last time I checked that was a crime in every country. So yeah, I want them shut down.

Then by osmosis, all publications which published the findings should be prosecuted and/or shut down?

You really, actually want our government to have that power?

Use your brain.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

True, but hopefully there will be consequences for these actions.

Yeah like,

SECURING THEIR FUCKING FILES FOR STARTERS!

I'm still amazed you give the leaker a pass. They do take an oath, you know.

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

I don't give the LEAKER a pass. I have many posts in this thread where I say the SERVICEMAN who copied the data onto disks and sold them should be prosecuted.

But that's where it ends.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

But I am stunned that so few people on here understand the seriousness of this whole shitstorm.

I understand it's massively overblown and exaggerated.

How about you?

 

[Trajan]

okay. but you just said to "wiki not a thing"....??

I don't know why not. ...why, I think is obvious.

I disagree that your examples hold the same merit. There are different shades grey in law, which is why there are so many different grades of a law. In the US you have capital/first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter - I could go on.

okay so you do agree then he the wkiki receiver is culpable, we are just looking at degrees of culpability/guilt....?

There are many shades of grey. What if a Russian news agency published details in a Russian magazine that showed the world that the country's long term plan was to annex Alaska under the premise that the land should never have been sold to the US in the first place? It turns out that a Russian soldier gave out the info. Is he a hero or a villian in the eyes of Americans? Should he be shot or feted?

I am sure the Russians would want to shoot him and we would set him up for life

frankly I have no issue with that, the Russians did to us and we did unto them and we EACH treated our scoundrels the same way, well, in the ussr they probably got one in the back of the neck after a show trial, here they got the electric chair after a pretty level trial etc. so I am not sure were you're going here..?

just to add a tidbit, you saw the thread right that our DOJ ordered closed what, 50 sites who were selling stolen goods etc.?

 

[Trajan]

But I am stunned that so few people on here understand the seriousness of this whole shitstorm.

I understand it's massively overblown and exaggerated.

How about you?

what is, the event or the information? Or both?

 

[Modbert]

I have a idea, who can name one person that has been killed due to the release of the information by wikileaks? Whoever wins get a pos rep.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64[/ame]

 

[Modbert]

What is with "Conservatives" and "Liberals" on both sides who always complain about a lack of transparency in government, and when transparency is finally given, they want the people behind the release of the information jailed if not killed.

 

[Trajan]

What is with "Conservatives" and "Liberals" on both sides who always complain about a lack of transparency in government, and when transparency is finally given, they want the people behind the release of the information jailed if not killed.

I am no fan of obama, I don't blame him for this and I think its screwed up this happened on his watch, he got sideswiped. Its also embarrassing for us all.

That being said, nor do I wish us to look foolish inept and conversations better left secret need to be left secret.

Putting out dirty laundry, that provide road marks to negotiation points for one thing, relations amongst folks that already suspect they hold each other in contempt, and the fact that some of this will effect the way we interact with one another. A lot was made of bushs stepping on Europe etc. well, remarks I have head that are in wiki are not flattering to our allies to say the least and ot flattering to us....spying on foreign leaders and plenipotentiary's...really?

Will it have long term damage?Ii don't know, maybe not , a lot of this is a given, buts its always better left unsaid, like the digs you want to take at seldom seen family members at holiday dinners .

In addition how much is lost when our people don't feel safe using 'cable' traffic to make observations to one another on issues and personalities that may help us craft negotiation points etc.?

As far as lives? we don't know and never will I don't think.You can play suppsoe though, suppose a name of one of the opposition leader(s) in contact with us, unknown to Iranian intelligence comes out? What do you think his/her life is worth?

I will say that in all likely hood the leaks of the wire taps and swift prgm. probably did, or certainly will if it has not already.

 

[loosecannon]

I have a idea, who can name one person that has been killed due to the release of the information by wikipedia? Whoever wins get a pos rep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64

wikipedia?

 

[Jeremy]

What is with "Conservatives" and "Liberals" on both sides who always complain about a lack of transparency in government, and when transparency is finally given, they want the people behind the release of the information jailed if not killed.

Something tells me that the release of 250K classified documents is not the "transparency" we are looking for.....

 

[The T]

I have a idea, who can name one person that has been killed due to the release of the information by wikipedia? Whoever wins get a pos rep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64

wikipedia?

CLODBERT is Confused.

 

[Modbert]

wikipedia?

Typo on my part and already fixed.

 

[Modbert]

I am no fan of obama, I don't blame him for this and I think its screwed up this happened on his watch, he got sideswiped. Its also embarrassing for us all.

That being said, nor do I wish us to look foolish inept and conversations better left secret need to be left secret.

Putting out dirty laundry, that provide road marks to negotiation points for one thing, relations amongst folks that already suspect they hold each other in contempt, and the fact that some of this will effect the way we interact with one another. A lot was made of bushs stepping on Europe etc. well, remarks I have head that are in wiki are not flattering to our allies to say the least and ot flattering to us....spying on foreign leaders and plenipotentiary's...really?

Will it have long term damage?Ii don't know, maybe not , a lot of this is a given, buts its always better left unsaid, like the digs you want to take at seldom seen family members at holiday dinners .

In addition how much is lost when our people don't feel safe using 'cable' traffic to make observations to one another on issues and personalities that may help us craft negotiation points etc.?

As far as lives? we don't know and never will I don't think.You can play suppsoe though, suppose a name of one of the opposition leader(s) in contact with us, unknown to Iranian intelligence comes out? What do you think his/her life is worth?

I will say that in all likely hood the leaks of the wire taps and swift prgm. probably did, or certainly will if it has not already.

So basically anything that our government has done wrong in secret is not fair game since it makes us look bad? If we didn't want to be in such situations, perhaps our government shouldn't be doing these things in the first place?

The problem I find is we likely don't even know half of what our own government is doing when it comes to foreign policy. What happens is the American voters cannot make as informed decisions as possible because of this. We only find out when screwups happen it seems long after anyone who is involved is dead.

 

[Jeremy]

I am no fan of obama, I don't blame him for this and I think its screwed up this happened on his watch, he got sideswiped. Its also embarrassing for us all.

That being said, nor do I wish us to look foolish inept and conversations better left secret need to be left secret.

Putting out dirty laundry, that provide road marks to negotiation points for one thing, relations amongst folks that already suspect they hold each other in contempt, and the fact that some of this will effect the way we interact with one another. A lot was made of bushs stepping on Europe etc. well, remarks I have head that are in wiki are not flattering to our allies to say the least and ot flattering to us....spying on foreign leaders and plenipotentiary's...really?

Will it have long term damage?Ii don't know, maybe not , a lot of this is a given, buts its always better left unsaid, like the digs you want to take at seldom seen family members at holiday dinners .

In addition how much is lost when our people don't feel safe using 'cable' traffic to make observations to one another on issues and personalities that may help us craft negotiation points etc.?

As far as lives? we don't know and never will I don't think.You can play suppsoe though, suppose a name of one of the opposition leader(s) in contact with us, unknown to Iranian intelligence comes out? What do you think his/her life is worth?

I will say that in all likely hood the leaks of the wire taps and swift prgm. probably did, or certainly will if it has not already.

So basically anything that our government has done wrong in secret is not fair game since it makes us look bad? If we didn't want to be in such situations, perhaps our government shouldn't be doing these things in the first place?

The problem I find is we likely don't even know half of what our own government is doing when it comes to foreign policy. What happens is the American voters cannot make as informed decisions as possible because of this. We only find out when screwups happen it seems long after anyone who is involved is dead. This is bad for our country because we cannot expect these things to be hidden forever. Especially in the kind of world we live in today.

If it's secret is it wrong by default?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I am no fan of obama, I don't blame him for this and I think its screwed up this happened on his watch, he got sideswiped. Its also embarrassing for us all.

That being said, nor do I wish us to look foolish inept and conversations better left secret need to be left secret.

Putting out dirty laundry, that provide road marks to negotiation points for one thing, relations amongst folks that already suspect they hold each other in contempt, and the fact that some of this will effect the way we interact with one another. A lot was made of bushs stepping on Europe etc. well, remarks I have head that are in wiki are not flattering to our allies to say the least and ot flattering to us....spying on foreign leaders and plenipotentiary's...really?

Will it have long term damage?Ii don't know, maybe not , a lot of this is a given, buts its always better left unsaid, like the digs you want to take at seldom seen family members at holiday dinners .

In addition how much is lost when our people don't feel safe using 'cable' traffic to make observations to one another on issues and personalities that may help us craft negotiation points etc.?

As far as lives? we don't know and never will I don't think.You can play suppsoe though, suppose a name of one of the opposition leader(s) in contact with us, unknown to Iranian intelligence comes out? What do you think his/her life is worth?

I will say that in all likely hood the leaks of the wire taps and swift prgm. probably did, or certainly will if it has not already.

So basically anything that our government has done wrong in secret is not fair game since it makes us look bad? If we didn't want to be in such situations, perhaps our government shouldn't be doing these things in the first place?

The problem I find is we likely don't even know half of what our own government is doing when it comes to foreign policy. What happens is the American voters cannot make as informed decisions as possible because of this. We only find out when screwups happen it seems long after anyone who is involved is dead. This is bad for our country because we cannot expect these things to be hidden forever. Especially in the kind of world we live in today.

If it's secret is it wrong by default?

That's not what he said.

 

[Sallow]

What is with "Conservatives" and "Liberals" on both sides who always complain about a lack of transparency in government, and when transparency is finally given, they want the people behind the release of the information jailed if not killed.

This is not "transparency", this is theft. There were proper channels the young man could have gone to...to properly filter this sort of information if he thought there was wrong doing. In fact..our government has "whistleblower" laws to protect people who do this.

What happened here was a violation of trust. When you are in an industry that deals with sensitive information, the onus is to use the utmost judgement and care with how that gets handled.

That all went out the window here.

 

[Jeremy]

So basically anything that our government has done wrong in secret is not fair game since it makes us look bad? If we didn't want to be in such situations, perhaps our government shouldn't be doing these things in the first place?

The problem I find is we likely don't even know half of what our own government is doing when it comes to foreign policy. What happens is the American voters cannot make as informed decisions as possible because of this. We only find out when screwups happen it seems long after anyone who is involved is dead. This is bad for our country because we cannot expect these things to be hidden forever. Especially in the kind of world we live in today.

If it's secret is it wrong by default?

That's not what he said.

Than what? ALL foriegn policy action should be open to the public?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If it's secret is it wrong by default?

That's not what he said.

Than what? ALL foriegn policy action should be open to the public?

He mentioned only the wrong things the government has done in secret, not that all things in secret are wrong.

 

[ThePatriot]

There's absolutely no way you can say that wikileaks does anything useful other than place American lives as well as national pride in danger. It is the media world's job to play as a watchdog for American politics, however providing information which places America in a vulnerable state is treason. Anyone who honestly thinks that the public knows everything that takes place in the government and world is simply ignorant.