America can make ANYTHING work; Even universal healthcare!

The single greatest drag on the deficit and middle class purchasing power is exploding health care costs. Over the past 3 decades, Washington has been the target of massive lobbying efforts by the health insurance industry. The most likely job for a vacating senator is to become a drug or health insurance lobbyist.

The Health Insurance Industry has used its pull in Washington to divide the country into fixed no-compete zones. 90% of Iowa only has access to one provider. This means that Blue Cross can raise premiums and decrease services without being disciplined by market competition.

Reagan promised the opposite. He told us that if we let business craft their own regulations - and if, as a result, they made higher profits - those profits would redound to the consumer in the form of better services and more competitive pricing. The opposite has happened.

One of the reasons middle class families can no longer meet the demand requirements of economic growth (through consumption) is because their health care costs have exploded in recent years. They can no longer afford to pay into the monopolies that run health care.

Since the Health Insurance industry pays into Movement Conservatism's network of think tanks, publishing groups, political action committees and media assets, they can shape the opinions of voters. And that is exactly what they have done. Most people on this board have no idea how much health care premiums have risen because of Lobbying; nor do they know that the health care industry is no longer a competitive market. Nor do they know that the USA leads the world in profits by a staggering margin, but is not even in the top twenty when it comes to outcomes. Meaning: we pay top dollar for an increasingly bad product because corporations cut politicians huge checks.

This is where I agree with Republicans. By making Washington so powerful, we have given corporations something to capture. They now devote more money to lobbying than R&D. Their goal is to capture regulatory agencies and politicians for the purpose of using Washington's centralized power to rig markets and fleece the consumer. They don't have to bear the risk and debt associated with innovation if they have a monopoly; meaning: their money is better spent buying politicians.

This is why Libertarians don't like centralized power. Because the very existence of centralized economic levers leads to abuse. The story of post-Reagan capitalism is the story of how corporations - through lobbying pressure and election funding - captured government and set-up monopolies over health care and energy. The result is that we are being slowly bankrupted as a small cadre of people realize dynastic wealth.

We have to make these bastards compete.

What Talk-Radio-Republicans have never understood - because most have not had much advanced education in economics - is that corporate lobbying distorts market outcomes just as much as a bureaucrat who imposes price controls.

(God help us. . . these people vote)

(FYI: This was the biggest fear when Reagan advocated for giving corporations more access to Washington. People said that eventually corporations would use their tremendous financial leverage to staff government. We now have a system where politicians are paid handsomely by corporations to uphold special interests. Corporations and the State have merged to create the most centralized power ever imagined.)
 
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Liberals will never admit that Obamacare and all of his other socialist programs are failures. Social security is a ponzi scheme that will be finished soon and medicare will be right behind it. The welfare leeches will bleed this country if the democrats have their way but the voters are starting to see their mistake in reelcting Obama and in 2014 things will start to change for the better as the GOP regains control of Congress and in 2016 they will win the Presidency.
 
Heard this today in a discussion with a friend, and it was a great point. There are a lot of issues the people are pointing to as being capable of ruining America, and they often use examples of other places in the world where it has failed. Like universal healthcare. Where it has seen awful results in some places, like Cuba. So-so results in others like Canada.

But the point was...sure, it failed THERE. But it wouldnt here. Why? Because we're America. We can do anything right. ANYTHING we try we'll succeed at.

Lets look at just the healthcare example. Could we do it and succeed wildly with it? I think so. Sure, Cuba failed. But Cuba has failed at a lot of stuff. Lots of nations have tried to compete with America in other fields- music, entertainment, military, business. All failed. So....should we give up on making movies, music, military, business moves since others have failed? No, of course not.

There are a lot of new ideas and foreign ideas that some are proposing for America. And some are crying that it will fail and ruin America....because they point to somewhere else it has failed. But by that logic, we shouldnt try to do anything that anyone else failed at, as their failure is evidence enough to guarantee our failure.

I dont buy that. If anyone, anywhere can balance the glory and opportunity of capitalism with the stability and security of some light socialism...then America can. We can do it. We can do everything better than everyone, and though many failed at these ideas, we would not. Just like we have proven that we can succeed in many things that others have failed at.

Can you explain why prohibition failed if America can make anything work?
 
After the next election the Republicans will have the power in Congress to repeal Obamacare and have enough votes to over ride his veto.

Obamacare won't survive the town halls of the summer of '09.

Obamacare won't be able to scrape together sixty votes to break the filibuster in the Senate.

Scott Brown's election to the Senate in January 2010 is going to kill Obamacare by making a conference bill impossible.

The 2010 elections are going to choke Obamacare by defunding implementation.

The Supreme Court is going to strike down the individual mandate and with it all the rest of Obamacare in 2012.

Mitt Romney is going to repeal Obamacare after he beats Obama in 2012.

After the 2014 election the Republicans will have the power in Congress to repeal Obamacare and have enough votes to over ride his veto.

To be continued...!

Obamacare is growing more unpopular every day, despite the fact that it passed. My guess it will get even worse once all the negative stuff they delayed until after the election kicks in.
 
The entire industrialized world has adopted some form of universal health care, or another. We have a BETTER idea! Whe saddle our employers with the cost of providing it for our citizens who work, making them totally non-competitive with businesses based in other countries, and then we give it away to the poor, and pay for that through federal and state grants, raised by taxes.

Oddly enough, not one single country in the entire world has ever said, "Gee! Why don't we adopt the American health care system?"

The rest of the world is, of course, wrong, and our stystem is right. (choke!) Sorry. I just barely was able to get that last sentence out....

If the best argument you have for something is that everyone else is doing it you really should shut the fuck up.

By the way, can we bet on your assertion that no country in the world wants to switch from government helath care to a private system? Because I can think of quite a few nations that are switching from government a government controlled system to a private system.
 
Notice: other countries shouldn't try to be more like us, oh no, we have to try to be more like them!

You don't see the other developed countries trying to work their way into becoming a third world country like you idiots do.
 
It will be up to the left to make universal health care work. The right always wants government to fail.
 
Heard this today in a discussion with a friend, and it was a great point. There are a lot of issues the people are pointing to as being capable of ruining America, and they often use examples of other places in the world where it has failed. Like universal healthcare. Where it has seen awful results in some places, like Cuba. So-so results in others like Canada.
Yeah......that's bullshit.
:eusa_hand:

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ1lPPTPSR4]SiCKO - Canadian Waiting Room Scene - YouTube[/ame]
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T46wQb9lAbI]Adrian Campbell Makes a Run for the Border in 'SiCKO' - YouTube[/ame]
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIULTGMAeM]British National Healthcare Service - Tony Benn - YouTube[/ame]

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If you understand the basic principle of insurance you'll understand why single payer universal HC insurance IS the most efficient solution to the HC disaster we have.
 
If you understand the basic principle of insurance you'll understand why single payer universal HC insurance IS the most efficient solution to the HC disaster we have.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi1acHg3mhw]BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Single Payer Health Insurance | PBS - YouTube[/ame]

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Heard this today in a discussion with a friend, and it was a great point. There are a lot of issues the people are pointing to as being capable of ruining America, and they often use examples of other places in the world where it has failed. Like universal healthcare. Where it has seen awful results in some places, like Cuba. So-so results in others like Canada.

But the point was...sure, it failed THERE. But it wouldnt here. Why? Because we're America. We can do anything right. ANYTHING we try we'll succeed at.

Lets look at just the healthcare example. Could we do it and succeed wildly with it? I think so. Sure, Cuba failed. But Cuba has failed at a lot of stuff. Lots of nations have tried to compete with America in other fields- music, entertainment, military, business. All failed. So....should we give up on making movies, music, military, business moves since others have failed? No, of course not.

There are a lot of new ideas and foreign ideas that some are proposing for America. And some are crying that it will fail and ruin America....because they point to somewhere else it has failed. But by that logic, we shouldnt try to do anything that anyone else failed at, as their failure is evidence enough to guarantee our failure.

I dont buy that. If anyone, anywhere can balance the glory and opportunity of capitalism with the stability and security of some light socialism...then America can. We can do it. We can do everything better than everyone, and though many failed at these ideas, we would not. Just like we have proven that we can succeed in many things that others have failed at.

Look, one last time. There is NO WAY a government can insure 315 million people and do it efficiently, with the identical access to all care available now and without creating a gigantic bureaucracy of hundreds of thousands of new federal employees.
Obama insisted his plan will reduce costs. We have already seen this as untrue. That $900 billion is now 2 times that. The program is not funded. Obamacare has gutted Medicare. It creates thousands of new taxes and intrusive heavy handed regulations. And that does not include the inevitable new laws that will be required to regulate behavior.
Oh, if you want Universal Healthcare, YOU pay for it. Let all who decline to participate opt out with no financial obligation whatsoever.
Let's see how government healthcare can operate without the crutch of the captive market.

:eusa_liar:And those idiots still don't realize the gov't still hasn't read it all the way through yet. They still don't know everything thats in it yet. Guess we have to think like Pelosi and keep our hopes up.
 
I hate to tell the GOP this, but we'd BETTER make it work because it's not going away.

It would be easier to make it work if they'd get off the notion that they can kill it and get to work making it better.

^^^^ This. ^^^^

We have to make it work because, if we don't, we will never be able to compete in a global economy. Every single one of our global competitors has some form of single payer healthcare system. We have to figure out how to make it work for America.

If I had my druthers, it would be in the form of a sales tax that would provide basic healthcare to all Americans. Don't worry, insurance companies would still survive in my socialist utopia! Like most liberals, I know that it takes a healthy dose of capitalism and socialism for a happy, healthy and secure society.

If you don't like the universal, basic care provided, you can bump it up with your own cash and purchase a Cadillac supplement...hence the survival of the insurance companies we all love being beholden to.
 
Heard this today in a discussion with a friend, and it was a great point. There are a lot of issues the people are pointing to as being capable of ruining America, and they often use examples of other places in the world where it has failed. Like universal healthcare. Where it has seen awful results in some places, like Cuba. So-so results in others like Canada.

But the point was...sure, it failed THERE. But it wouldnt here. Why? Because we're America. We can do anything right. ANYTHING we try we'll succeed at.

Lets look at just the healthcare example. Could we do it and succeed wildly with it? I think so. Sure, Cuba failed. But Cuba has failed at a lot of stuff. Lots of nations have tried to compete with America in other fields- music, entertainment, military, business. All failed. So....should we give up on making movies, music, military, business moves since others have failed? No, of course not.

There are a lot of new ideas and foreign ideas that some are proposing for America. And some are crying that it will fail and ruin America....because they point to somewhere else it has failed. But by that logic, we shouldnt try to do anything that anyone else failed at, as their failure is evidence enough to guarantee our failure.

I dont buy that. If anyone, anywhere can balance the glory and opportunity of capitalism with the stability and security of some light socialism...then America can. We can do it. We can do everything better than everyone, and though many failed at these ideas, we would not. Just like we have proven that we can succeed in many things that others have failed at.

I think it will work as well as our education system, it will cost the most and continue to cost more per capita than anywhere in world, but I think the quality will start going down, just how quickly, not sure but I don't know much of any program that government has made the cost go down and improved the product or service.
 
The entire industrialized world has adopted some form of universal health care, or another. We have a BETTER idea! Whe saddle our employers with the cost of providing it for our citizens who work, making them totally non-competitive with businesses based in other countries, and then we give it away to the poor, and pay for that through federal and state grants, raised by taxes.

Oddly enough, not one single country in the entire world has ever said, "Gee! Why don't we adopt the American health care system?"

The rest of the world is, of course, wrong, and our stystem is right. (choke!) Sorry. I just barely was able to get that last sentence out....
Oddly enough once a government program is established, it is impossible to get rid of it.

And almost every one of those nations have confiscatory taxation or the system has broken the country's bank accounts.
Government can do NOTHING efficiently as long as there exists the concept of baseline budgeting.
Look, when the federal government can show the ability to everything on time and within budget, we can have a talk about letting the government insure all US citizens medical needs. Until then, forget it.
 
I hate to tell the GOP this, but we'd BETTER make it work because it's not going away.

It would be easier to make it work if they'd get off the notion that they can kill it and get to work making it better.

Fortunately, you are not 'telling the GOP' anything... you are just bleating on a message board. Get over yourself.

It won't work. Simple. Fact. Has not worked anywhere else. Won't work here. Learn lessons. Not rocket science.
 
Soon we will make Communism work here too!

^ The liberal view. :eusa_hand:

Here's ANOTHER very liberal view.

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If you understand the basic principle of insurance you'll understand why single payer universal HC insurance IS the most efficient solution to the HC disaster we have.

We do not have a health care disaster, we have a government funded health insurance disaster. Believe it or not, the solution to a government problem is not more government.
 

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