Americans prefer to live where they can own guns and protect themselves...thank goodness.....

[Brain357]

Good....explain that to the people who were raped, beaten, stabbed, tortured, kidnapped and murdered...they will be glad to hear that what they experienced did not happen........and each one of them woke up that morning never thinking that their day would end with their rape, beating, stabbing, kidnapping or murder.......just like you brain....I hope tomorrow doesn't end up for you like it did for them...

Brain will only lie to you.
He takes great pride in this.

yeah...I feel less inclined to debate him as time goes on.......one can only debate the insane for so long......

Insane is believing in surveys that are supported by NOTHING in REALITY. In fact all the stats from reality counter them.

Fact is DGUs are rare. Most people haven't had one. Most people don't even know anyone who has had one. You haven't had one and I haven't had one. Your own experience is counter to your claims. Now that is insane.

And 2 million people a year on average do use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.......moron...

That's funny, most gun studies say that is WAY too high. All the facts from reality say that is crazy. You have NOTHING to support your claim.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Fact: >99.997% of the guns in the US are NOT involved in a murder.
Fact: For every gun in the US involved in a murder in the US,. >35,000 are not.
Whatever argument you want to make regarding the number of gun related murders in the US and how it illustrates a "need" for further run control, these facts negate it.

No, actually, they don't.

They do. There's no sound argument for more gun control to be found in the number of gun related murders in the US. None.
Disagree?
Why do you chose to focus on the use of one gun and ignore the fact that over 35,000 are not so used?

 

[Brain357]

The fact that there are so many guns doesn't support the notion that they are preventing deaths. They aren't. Otherwise, there would not be more deaths in this country than American soldiers who died in the entire Iraq war.

Fact: >99.997% of the guns in the US are NOT involved in a murder.
Fact: For every gun in the US involved in a murder in the US,. >35,000 are not.
Whatever argument you want to make regarding the number of gun related murders in the US and how it illustrates a "need" for further run control, these facts negate it.

No, actually, they don't. The U.S., in 2011, had 10.3 gun-related deaths per 100,000. That is just below the rate we see in Mexico. Regardless of the number of guns in the hands of the population, the number of gun fatalities in this country each year is a national scandal.

Moron...they include suicides in that number....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.......gun grabber nuts always throw in suicide to push up their numbers......

Well it is interesting to see who is getting killed by guns.
About 20,000 times a year the owner in suicide
About 8,500 people a year killed by criminals
About 500 people a year killed in accidents usually the owner again.
About 230 criminals killed in defense.

Looks like the owner really takes a beating.

 

[2aguy]

It isn't a little dishonest...it is completely dishonest...but that is all they have...the truth and reality do not back up their fear of guns....

Reality doesn't back up your fear of being killed by a criminal. Nor does it support your crazy surveys.

Good....explain that to the people who were raped, beaten, stabbed, tortured, kidnapped and murdered...they will be glad to hear that what they experienced did not happen........and each one of them woke up that morning never thinking that their day would end with their rape, beating, stabbing, kidnapping or murder.......just like you brain....I hope tomorrow doesn't end up for you like it did for them...

As you know most of those crimes are thug on thug. You have stated that many times. So if you aren't involved in criminal activity they are very unlikely to happen. So unlikely you are more likely to be accidently shot and killed than intentionally killed.

And you prove M14 right in the very next post....I have never stated that....that is the lie you push to help your gun grabbing beliefs.....

And with 320 million guns in private hands...and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......your odds of dying from a gun accident are almost zero....

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

 

[Brain357]

Reality doesn't back up your fear of being killed by a criminal. Nor does it support your crazy surveys.

Good....explain that to the people who were raped, beaten, stabbed, tortured, kidnapped and murdered...they will be glad to hear that what they experienced did not happen........and each one of them woke up that morning never thinking that their day would end with their rape, beating, stabbing, kidnapping or murder.......just like you brain....I hope tomorrow doesn't end up for you like it did for them...

As you know most of those crimes are thug on thug. You have stated that many times. So if you aren't involved in criminal activity they are very unlikely to happen. So unlikely you are more likely to be accidently shot and killed than intentionally killed.

And you prove M14 right in the very next post....I have never stated that....that is the lie you push to help your gun grabbing beliefs.....

And with 320 million guns in private hands...and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......your odds of dying from a gun accident are almost zero....

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

He does clearly state that most defenders are involved in criminal activity. I have shown you the quote many times. It's a fact.

 

[Brain357]

Reality doesn't back up your fear of being killed by a criminal. Nor does it support your crazy surveys.

Good....explain that to the people who were raped, beaten, stabbed, tortured, kidnapped and murdered...they will be glad to hear that what they experienced did not happen........and each one of them woke up that morning never thinking that their day would end with their rape, beating, stabbing, kidnapping or murder.......just like you brain....I hope tomorrow doesn't end up for you like it did for them...

As you know most of those crimes are thug on thug. You have stated that many times. So if you aren't involved in criminal activity they are very unlikely to happen. So unlikely you are more likely to be accidently shot and killed than intentionally killed.

And you prove M14 right in the very next post....I have never stated that....that is the lie you push to help your gun grabbing beliefs.....

And with 320 million guns in private hands...and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......your odds of dying from a gun accident are almost zero....

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

Any time you can show I have lied go for it. He certainly has never been able to.

 

[2aguy]

The fact that there are so many guns doesn't support the notion that they are preventing deaths. They aren't. Otherwise, there would not be more deaths in this country than American soldiers who died in the entire Iraq war.

Fact: >99.997% of the guns in the US are NOT involved in a murder.
Fact: For every gun in the US involved in a murder in the US,. >35,000 are not.
Whatever argument you want to make regarding the number of gun related murders in the US and how it illustrates a "need" for further run control, these facts negate it.

No, actually, they don't. The U.S., in 2011, had 10.3 gun-related deaths per 100,000. That is just below the rate we see in Mexico. Regardless of the number of guns in the hands of the population, the number of gun fatalities in this country each year is a national scandal.

Moron...they include suicides in that number....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.......gun grabber nuts always throw in suicide to push up their numbers......

Well it is interesting to see who is getting killed by guns.
About 20,000 times a year the owner in suicide
About 8,500 people a year killed by criminals
About 500 people a year killed in accidents usually the owner again.
About 230 criminals killed in defense.

Looks like the owner really takes a beating.

Moron...liar.....again....America is listed only at 30 for countries for suicide......even with all of our guns....and Japan and South Korea and any number of other countries that have absolute gun control have 2 times our suicide rate...they use ropes.....moron.....so they don't count...if people will just change out the gun for poison, hanging, or jumping off buildings, bridges or in front of trains...the gun isn't the problem.....

505 people killed in 2013....down from over 600 in 2010....in a country of over 320 million guns in 90 million homes.....it shows that American gun owners are amazingly safe with their firearms.......

Stop gangs and criminals....and you cut out 8,454 gun murders in 2013....

 

[2aguy]

Good....explain that to the people who were raped, beaten, stabbed, tortured, kidnapped and murdered...they will be glad to hear that what they experienced did not happen........and each one of them woke up that morning never thinking that their day would end with their rape, beating, stabbing, kidnapping or murder.......just like you brain....I hope tomorrow doesn't end up for you like it did for them...

As you know most of those crimes are thug on thug. You have stated that many times. So if you aren't involved in criminal activity they are very unlikely to happen. So unlikely you are more likely to be accidently shot and killed than intentionally killed.

And you prove M14 right in the very next post....I have never stated that....that is the lie you push to help your gun grabbing beliefs.....

And with 320 million guns in private hands...and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......your odds of dying from a gun accident are almost zero....

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

He does clearly state that most defenders are involved in criminal activity. I have shown you the quote many times. It's a fact.

and you lie by omission moron....he specifically stated they carried guns without permits or owned the guns in places where it may have been illegal....they are not career criminals involved in criminal activity...what a liar you are brain....

 

[Brain357]

The fact that there are so many guns doesn't support the notion that they are preventing deaths. They aren't. Otherwise, there would not be more deaths in this country than American soldiers who died in the entire Iraq war.

Fact: >99.997% of the guns in the US are NOT involved in a murder.
Fact: For every gun in the US involved in a murder in the US,. >35,000 are not.
Whatever argument you want to make regarding the number of gun related murders in the US and how it illustrates a "need" for further run control, these facts negate it.

No, actually, they don't. The U.S., in 2011, had 10.3 gun-related deaths per 100,000. That is just below the rate we see in Mexico. Regardless of the number of guns in the hands of the population, the number of gun fatalities in this country each year is a national scandal.

Moron...they include suicides in that number....there are only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.......gun grabber nuts always throw in suicide to push up their numbers......

Well it is interesting to see who is getting killed by guns.
About 20,000 times a year the owner in suicide
About 8,500 people a year killed by criminals
About 500 people a year killed in accidents usually the owner again.
About 230 criminals killed in defense.

Looks like the owner really takes a beating.

Moron...liar.....again....America is listed only at 30 for countries for suicide......even with all of our guns....and Japan and South Korea and any number of other countries that have absolute gun control have 2 times our suicide rate...they use ropes.....moron.....so they don't count...if people will just change out the gun for poison, hanging, or jumping off buildings, bridges or in front of trains...the gun isn't the problem.....

505 people killed in 2013....down from over 600 in 2010....in a country of over 320 million guns in 90 million homes.....it shows that American gun owners are amazingly safe with their firearms.......

Stop gangs and criminals....and you cut out 8,454 gun murders in 2013....

Liar? Which one of those numbers is incorrect? Those are the approximate numbers each year. Sorry you don't like the facts.

 

[Brain357]

As you know most of those crimes are thug on thug. You have stated that many times. So if you aren't involved in criminal activity they are very unlikely to happen. So unlikely you are more likely to be accidently shot and killed than intentionally killed.

And you prove M14 right in the very next post....I have never stated that....that is the lie you push to help your gun grabbing beliefs.....

And with 320 million guns in private hands...and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......your odds of dying from a gun accident are almost zero....

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

He does clearly state that most defenders are involved in criminal activity. I have shown you the quote many times. It's a fact.

and you lie by omission moron....he specifically stated they carried guns without permits or owned the guns in places where it may have been illegal....they are not career criminals involved in criminal activity...what a liar you are brain....

Then please post where he has ever said they are not career criminals. Show me where anything in his study says that. He clearly states they are involved in criminal activity. People who break laws are called criminals.

 

[2aguy]

And here is Kleck...again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

 

[2aguy]

And you prove M14 right in the very next post....I have never stated that....that is the lie you push to help your gun grabbing beliefs.....

And with 320 million guns in private hands...and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......your odds of dying from a gun accident are almost zero....

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

He does clearly state that most defenders are involved in criminal activity. I have shown you the quote many times. It's a fact.

and you lie by omission moron....he specifically stated they carried guns without permits or owned the guns in places where it may have been illegal....they are not career criminals involved in criminal activity...what a liar you are brain....

Then please post where he has ever said they are not career criminals. Show me where anything in his study says that. He clearly states they are involved in criminal activity. People who break laws are called criminals.

Then please post where he has ever said they are not career criminals.

And since you lie by omission...I have posted this all the time......


Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime. The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces. Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

Read more: Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

moron......

 

[Brain357]

Really? You have never stated most are crime is thug on thug? That is an important defense of one of your claims. Must I really go find one of the times you have claimed that?

Yes and still greater than your odds of being killed in a homicide if you aren't involved in criminal activity.

Yeah, liar...go find it.....I point out that Kleck states the people in the 90s often carried guns without permits...law abiding citizens exercising their right to carry a gun for self defense...you lie and say he means they were career criminals....which is one reason that M14 calls you a liar.......and I now agree with him....

He does clearly state that most defenders are involved in criminal activity. I have shown you the quote many times. It's a fact.

and you lie by omission moron....he specifically stated they carried guns without permits or owned the guns in places where it may have been illegal....they are not career criminals involved in criminal activity...what a liar you are brain....

Then please post where he has ever said they are not career criminals. Show me where anything in his study says that. He clearly states they are involved in criminal activity. People who break laws are called criminals.

Then please post where he has ever said they are not career criminals.

And since you lie by omission...I have posted this all the time......


Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime. The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces. Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

Read more: Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

moron......

Yes he is saying the act of defense was not a crime other than unlawful possession of a gun. Nothing there says they are not otherwise criminals. In case you are not aware unlawful possession of a gun is a crime. Criminals commit crimes.

 

[Brain357]

And here is Kleck...again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth - Gary Kleck - POLITICO Magazine

Is this the one where he flip flops on whether most defenses are at home or in public? I love how he has to flip flop depending on what he is trying to defend.

 

[westwall]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

Since there are no communities in the US were "nobody is allowed to be armed", that is kind of a silly poll.

Try getting one in New York.

 

[westwall]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

Since there are no communities in the US were "nobody is allowed to be armed", that is kind of a silly poll.

New Jersey, New York and California come to mind....in New York and New Jersey ( as we saw last week when the woman was murdered waiting to get her permit) It can be almost impossible for a law abiding citizen to get a permit to carry a gun for self defense.....

And Chicago and Washington D.C. had bans on owning guns.....

Youre an idiot. Its perfectly legal to own a gun in everyone of those states.

Try owning a gun in New York City. Hell try owning a FAKE gun in New York City...legally that is.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Try owning a gun in New York City. Hell try owning a FAKE gun in New York City...legally that is.

I read that a permit to own a gun in NYC costs close to $500, which the left is perfectly OK with.
Imagine their screeches if you needed a $500 permit for an abortion.

 

[paddymurphy]

I found this linked at extranosalley.....and it points out that most Americans are intelligent...and know that only they can protect themselves when they are confronted by a violent criminal attacker.....

Americans Prefer Living in Neighborhoods With Guns - Rasmussen Reports

American Voters overwhelming prefer living in a neighborhood where they have the option of owning a gun than to live where nobody is allowed to be armed.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection. Sixty-eight percent (68%) would feel safer in a neighborhood where guns are allowed, while 10% are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)


(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.


The national survey of 977 Likely Voters was conducted on June 8-9, 2015 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Fieldwork for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC . See methodology.

Since there are no communities in the US were "nobody is allowed to be armed", that is kind of a silly poll.

Try getting one in New York.

I don't live in New York. Do you?

 

[paddymurphy]

Just curious, but why did you ignore the part of the poll that stated that most did support strict limits on semi-automatic and assault type weapons?

Guessing because it does not list a specific result.

Neither does the other question. You have to subscribe to see the actual numbers.

 

[paddymurphy]

Contrary to the lies of the NRA, gun control does not mean banning guns.

The NRA has never limited its definition of, or opposition to, gun control as 'banning guns'.
The NRA opposes any restriction that does nothng to prevent criminals from getting guns and/or infringes on the right to keep and bear arms.
.Maybe if you actually read what the NRA says, you'd know that.

The majority of us, in the middle, agree that law abiding folks should be allowed to own and carry guns for their protection. We differ only on how that is to be regulated.

Do tell.... how do you think owning/carrying a gun should be regulated?

I have read their nonsense. You, apparently, believe it. Too bad for you.