Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[Jackinthebox]

American Manufacturing Replaced by Eating and Drinking

With socioeconomic trends such as this, it is little wonder why the American obesity epidemic shows no signs of slowing no matter what deluded programs are put in place to curb ourexpanding waistlines. From incessant commercial brainwashing, to denial of access to healthy products, to making you sick for profit, to a global population control program, it is little wonder why Americans are in such poor health. Not just physically, but economically as well. In the 1950's, the heydey of American capitalism, manufacturing was the backbone of our economic vitality. These blue-collar jobs paid well, and provided the benefits that raised our quality of life to be the most superior in human history. As you can see from this chart below, those jobs have all been replaced by a service industry specifically designed to profit from obesity and drunkenness. The jobs in bars and restaurants are low-wage and usually provide no worker-benefits of any kind. When factoring for worker productivity overall, 90% of Americans now make less than the minimum wage standard in 1950. This is at a time when American poverty has reached unprecedented proportions, and more people than ever are relying on government subsidies for the very basic necessities of life. If today's SNAP benefit (foodstamps) was measured as a bread-line like we saw during the Great Depression, there would be a line 7 miles long at every single Wal-Mart in America. Then to add insult to injury, even these low-paying obesity-industry jobs are being eliminated through technology. This chart plots the collision course explaining why we are so physically sick at the same time our economic vitality has gone stale.




Read more: American Manufacturing Replaced by Eating and Drinking Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

 

[Jackinthebox]

To understand what can usefully be done to bolster American manufacturing, it’s helpful to think about what makes manufacturing valuable.

In economic terms, the genius of American manufacturing doesn’t really lie in making stuff. Rather, it’s all about mass production and the division of labor. In a well-run factory, machines and organizational savvy substitute for skill. In its early phases, manufacturing meant a whole bunch of rifles could be produced on an assembly line by a bunch of workers, none of whom had the expertise of a gunsmith. That meant much higher output and lower prices for consumers, raising real incomes across the board. It also brought benefits for workers. Participating in mass production let people capture some of the value of advanced manufacturing without acquiring the skills necessary for artisanal production.

McDonald rsquo s Chipotle Starbucks Fast food and chain restaurants are manufacturers.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

This same mindset was responsible for creating the great blight of the Rust Belt, for shutting down more than 30,000 American factories, and for exporting 32 million American jobs just in the decade 1969-1979.

We shifted from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy. It wasn't because auto workers were overpaid.

God what an imbecile. "Jackinthebox." Is that where you work?

 

[Jackinthebox]

This same mindset was responsible for creating the great blight of the Rust Belt, for shutting down more than 30,000 American factories, and for exporting 32 million American jobs just in the decade 1969-1979.

We shifted from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy. It wasn't because auto workers were overpaid.

God what an imbecile. "Jackinthebox." Is that where you work?

Okay, I am lieing. We didn't shift, like the data I just posted shows.

So what you are telling us is that all blue collar workers should be making minimum wage and collect welfare?

 

[Jackinthebox]

A Burger Joint Pays $15 An Hour. And, Yes, It's Making Money

A Burger Joint Pays 15 An Hour. And Yes It s Making Money The Salt NPR

 

[RKMBrown]

If your definition of living wage is a ad hoc, flimsy budgeting sales pitch there most certainly is. To make matters worse, your authors didn't even adjust for taxation.either local, state or federal. So your entire argument is fucking moronic, son. Im talking 'tard level. Like brain dead. Fucking gone. Smoke another pie of meth type shit.

Except they actually did:


Of course, that figure must be after all taxes and contributions are taken, or that anyone earning that amount must be exempt from all such garnishments and liability. A person who cannot even afford to pay their own way, cannot afford to pay taxes. Forcing them to pay taxes that will jeopardize their basic standard of living, is unsound economics and in the long run will only force other taxpayers to subsidize those workers, in turn jeopardizing their own living standard, in a perpetual cycle that we see happening today as more workers descend into deep poverty.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Then why are they advocating the 17.47 per hour number?

This is fucking moronic, son. Dumb. Stupid. Retarded.
The argument has no bearing. You think we're going to have a national minimum wage at 17.47 per hour and these individuals will pay no taxation because it will jeopardize their living wage?






Earth to the OP.
Well, at that budget with that income and not having to pay taxes, I'm in. The government on the other hand is not. Nor will they ever invent a min. wage with tax exempt status. But day dreaming is fun.

The least the authors could do is the proper math regarding taxation instead of an ad hac call to not have them texed.

This is just lousy.

If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source

Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source

After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.

At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

ROFL dumb ass pansy want's 35k a year for 15year old bag boys that just started, never had a job before in their entire lives.

You are the biggest MORON in the history of mankind.

What difference does it make how old they are? We have 16 year old firefighters in my firehouse. Are you telling me that firefighters should be paid min wage too?

^moron want's firefighters to make the same wage as doctors and grocery bag boys..

 

[Jackinthebox]

Except they actually did:


Of course, that figure must be after all taxes and contributions are taken, or that anyone earning that amount must be exempt from all such garnishments and liability. A person who cannot even afford to pay their own way, cannot afford to pay taxes. Forcing them to pay taxes that will jeopardize their basic standard of living, is unsound economics and in the long run will only force other taxpayers to subsidize those workers, in turn jeopardizing their own living standard, in a perpetual cycle that we see happening today as more workers descend into deep poverty.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Then why are they advocating the 17.47 per hour number?

This is fucking moronic, son. Dumb. Stupid. Retarded.
The argument has no bearing. You think we're going to have a national minimum wage at 17.47 per hour and these individuals will pay no taxation because it will jeopardize their living wage?






Earth to the OP.
Well, at that budget with that income and not having to pay taxes, I'm in. The government on the other hand is not. Nor will they ever invent a min. wage with tax exempt status. But day dreaming is fun.

The least the authors could do is the proper math regarding taxation instead of an ad hac call to not have them texed.

This is just lousy.

If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source

Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source

After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.

At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

ROFL dumb ass pansy want's 35k a year for 15year old bag boys that just started, never had a job before in their entire lives.

You are the biggest MORON in the history of mankind.

What difference does it make how old they are? We have 16 year old firefighters in my firehouse. Are you telling me that firefighters should be paid min wage too?

^moron want's firefighters to make the same wage as doctors and grocery bag boys..

So you dodge the question and then make up some crap that I never said. Get off the thread troll.

 

[Iceweasel]

Read more: American Manufacturing Replaced by Eating and Drinking Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

The retard is strong with this one.

What's their best evidence that 90% of Americans make less than 1950 minimum wage?
Have you ever traveled beyond mom's basement and taken a look at how most folks live?
Most Americans are rich by global standards. Many filthy rich. At least two nice cars, big house, electronic toys up the ying yang, etc. You're completely full of shit.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it'd be over $22/hour. If they're asking for just $15/hour, give it to them before they ask for 22.

 

[Iceweasel]

If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it'd be over $22/hour. If they're asking for just $15/hour, give it to them before they ask for 22.

Let them ask for 22 or even 44. Then find a company that can pay it. Good luck.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it'd be over $22/hour. If they're asking for just $15/hour, give it to them before they ask for 22.

Let them ask for 22 or even 44. Then find a company that can pay it. Good luck.

Most every company can. Talking about multiples of just $12k/year afterall.

 

[Iceweasel]

If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it'd be over $22/hour. If they're asking for just $15/hour, give it to them before they ask for 22.

Let them ask for 22 or even 44. Then find a company that can pay it. Good luck.

Most every company can. Talking about multiples of just $12k/year afterall.

That's an assertion, not a fact. I don't know anyone that can afford to pay start up employees 22/hr. Except government, but they don't have to produce results.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then get more than one job.

And do you realize that only about 3% of workers are making the federal minimum wage?

In that 3% are service workers who also get tips

But you are not talking about raising the minimum wage only when you talk about this so called living wage. Youi are talking about raising everyone's income under some arbitrary amount.

And if you think that labor costs don't factor into product price you don't know squat about running a business.

If you can't make enough money working one job, get a second! That's the American way!

Raising the minimum wage is far from arbitrary. If it increased the same as a Big Mac (1970 to today) the minimum wage today would be $17.40/hr. That's 1200%.

Labor costs were already added to product costs, the costs weren't passed onto labor. It's called wage disparity or profits before anything.

The American way is you work to pay your own bills. Do whatever it takes and stop whining for charity. There used to be shame involved with going on the dole people were too proud to take handouts. That's the attitude we need to foster not the gimme gimme gimme bullshit

whenever I needed extra money I found a way to make it. I didn't stand there with my hand out like you sheep.

And if you think that more than doubling labor costs for businesses that rely on low skill workers won't increase prices then you're even more of an idiot than I thought

And that's saying something.

 

[Skull Pilot]

But asking someone to work 80hrs a week is evil. Much better to give them welfare if they agree to keep their hrs to 30 a week. That way they have more time to smoke weed and play video games.

It is not at all unreasonable to expect to earn a basic living at 40 hours per week. Overtime and second jobs should be there to afford the "extras" or be there to dig yourself out if you have a sudden emergency, like a car-wreck, or a sudden illness not covered by insurance.

Says you.

You get paid for the skill your job requires. Stuffing burgers in a bag takes no skill so your pay reflects that.

If you want higher pay then make yourself more valuable.

 

[Skull Pilot]

But asking someone to work 80hrs a week is evil. Much better to give them welfare if they agree to keep their hrs to 30 a week. That way they have more time to smoke weed and play video games.

It is not at all unreasonable to expect to earn a basic living at 40 hours per week. Overtime and second jobs should be there to afford the "extras" or be there to dig yourself out if you have a sudden emergency, like a car-wreck, or a sudden illness not covered by insurance.

Why should you get to earn a basic living at 40hrs a week? WTF does basic living mean? I worked a heluva lot more than 40hrs a week to get where I am today. Why should you be able to take my income to make your life easier than mine?

What this sheep don't understand is that no one who ever achieved anything ever worked only 40 hours a week.

 

[Skull Pilot]

But asking someone to work 80hrs a week is evil. Much better to give them welfare if they agree to keep their hrs to 30 a week. That way they have more time to smoke weed and play video games.

It is not at all unreasonable to expect to earn a basic living at 40 hours per week. Overtime and second jobs should be there to afford the "extras" or be there to dig yourself out if you have a sudden emergency, like a car-wreck, or a sudden illness not covered by insurance.

Why should you get to earn a basic living at 40hrs a week? WTF does basic living mean? I worked a heluva lot more than 40hrs a week to get where I am today. Why should you be able to take my income to make your life easier than mine?

40 hours a week has been the basic standard for full time work, for a long time, and for a lot of reasons. You're just trying to move the goalposts now in this discussion.

A basic living means just what is itemized in the OP.

So you're saying that someone working a min wage job has an easier life than you? I have worked a lot more than 40 hours a week to get where I am at too, but my life is a hell of a lot easier than someone who is trying to get my on min wage. And if I had to work 80 hours a week just to survive, I never would have gotten where I am today.

It's the standard before overtime is paid it is not and has not ever been said that one 40 hour a week job will pay all your bills

 

[Skull Pilot]

ADVANCED UTILITIES - $150

While some may argue that things like internet access, cellphones, and television are not necessities, they are still quite important to a productive member of society. Television may wind up as a worker's only form of entertainment,

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Not with 400 USD in misc charges it wont be the only entertainment.

This is absolutely the worst "thought out" debate for a living wage I've seen yet. This is simply pathetic and requires one to downgrade their own logic to participate.

I'm sorry I did it too.

Paying for tampons and renter's insurance is not entertainment.

No where did the authors indicate either of those items under "advanced utilities"

Maybe we should toss in a prostitute visit in advanced utilities too! Then we can really jack the numbers up!

You're just talking in circles now. Even starving people in Africa have cellphones. They are a necessity in the modern world. Or maybe you think the average worker doesn't "deserve" modern technology. Maybe they should go without indoor plumbing too, just shit in their hat and toss it out on the street.

Cell phones are not a necessity and if you really need one you certainly can get by with a cheapo flip phone and pay as you go. But you idiots think everyone needs an I phone with a 100 dollar a month data plan

 

[dblack]

I just can't get interested in tedious debates over what's necessary to live on or what people "deserve" to make. In terms of minimum wage laws, the question that matters is whether we're going to let government be in charge of deciding how much we pay each other.

 

[RKMBrown]

Then why are they advocating the 17.47 per hour number?

This is fucking moronic, son. Dumb. Stupid. Retarded.
The argument has no bearing. You think we're going to have a national minimum wage at 17.47 per hour and these individuals will pay no taxation because it will jeopardize their living wage?






Earth to the OP.
Well, at that budget with that income and not having to pay taxes, I'm in. The government on the other hand is not. Nor will they ever invent a min. wage with tax exempt status. But day dreaming is fun.

The least the authors could do is the proper math regarding taxation instead of an ad hac call to not have them texed.

This is just lousy.

If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source

Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source

After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.

At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

ROFL dumb ass pansy want's 35k a year for 15year old bag boys that just started, never had a job before in their entire lives.

You are the biggest MORON in the history of mankind.

What difference does it make how old they are? We have 16 year old firefighters in my firehouse. Are you telling me that firefighters should be paid min wage too?

^moron want's firefighters to make the same wage as doctors and grocery bag boys..

So you dodge the question and then make up some crap that I never said. Get off the thread troll.

I explain what difference it makes in a clear concise manner, and your beg for me to leave. ROFL

 

[Jackinthebox]

That's an assertion, not a fact. I don't know anyone that can afford to pay start up employees 22/hr. Except government, but they don't have to produce results.

Employers were able to in the past. What changed?

I could easily pay $22/hr for a counter clerk, if that were min wage across the board, for one simple reason. Market liquidity. More money in the pockets of workers means more spending. More customers spending more means greater profits for my business that would far exceed doubling one single business expense.