Brain357
Platinum Member
- Mar 30, 2013
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that is Kleck's number and you know that....his is one of 19 studies....he lists 16 of the studies in his paper.....you can look it up.....
and those aren't even all of the research on guns...you saw the list of other defensive gun use studies by even more,researchers.......did you wake up grouchy?
Yes they all vary greatly. They can't all be right. So you say 2.5 now? And the ones that say 800k, those researchers were wrong then?And how are you accounting for changes in crime rates?
brain....no...I have said Kleck's study found 2.5 from the very beginning and post it along with all the other studies so people can analyze them themselves.....I average them because that seems fair.......I do think Kleck's methods are the most accurate...and you can actually see exactly what he did in his research by reading his paper....of course you know that.......having had it posted time after time.......
What all the research shows is that Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent attack and save lives a lot........that they do so with calm and restraint....as your number of violent monsters killed by victims show...238...right? and that depriving people of the most effective means of stopping violent attack would create even more victims......
Then you should use the 2.5 most debunked number. Otherwise your own studies are contradicting each other. And how do you account for the change in crime rates?
The 238 just means most are minor crimes defensed. There would be more if people were defending many violent attacks.
The 2.5 number is actually the gold standard of research...untouched by serious attempts to show it was wrong...the anti gunners...like you....say...hey...it was debunked....but have never actually shown how you can say that.......
I don't have to account for the change in crime rates....I'lll wait for the research to see what it says......I don't make things up...
And again......as low as the crime rate is now...and it has been coming down since the 90s...as more and more people own guns...not saying it is the complete cause...but owning guns does not increase gun crime......which was one of the biggest tenets of the anti gun religion and time has shown that they were wrong.....
As low as the crime rates get...there will always be criminals, and people who need guns to stop them......
Right 2.5 million defenses and only about 238 criminals shot and killed in defense each year. Does it really need more debunking than that?
Then the numbers have more crimes defensed than are committed, that's quite a problem.
Only about 50 reported defenses each year.
There are pages and pages of debunking.
Oh and if the number is 2.5 million then there have been 75 million defenses the last 30 years. That's more than one for every gun owners. Yet I don't know anyone who has had one even though I know a lot of gun owners. And even on these boards people who claim to have defenses are a small minority. And neither you or I have ever had one. Wow now how could that be if there is more than one for every gun owner in the country? Yes the 2.5 is a cartoonish number.