Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[koshergrl]

How does Columbia rate on the "death by firearm" chart?

I think they're pretty high...

In Colombia, civilians are not allowed to possess pistols and revolvers of calibre superior to 9.652mm, automatic arms, semi-automatic rifles and carbines over 22 caliber LR, arms with military-style devices (infrared and laser sights, grenade launchers and silencers) and ammunition for these arms29
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Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons

In Colombia, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

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Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons

In Colombia, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

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Regulation of Handguns

In Colombia, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted under licence32 31



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Gun Owner Licensing

In Colombia, only licensed gun owners19 28 33 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
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Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence

Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Colombia are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, personal protection, security, hunting, target shooting, collection34 33

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Minimum Age for Firearm Possession

The minimum age for gun ownership in Colombia is 18 years33

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Gun Owner Background Checks

An applicant for a firearm licence in Colombia must pass background checks which consider criminal and mental33 records

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Domestic Violence and Firearms

Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in Colombia stipulates35 that a gun licence should be denied or revoked

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Gun Owner Licensing Period

In Colombia gun owners must re-apply and re-qualify for their firearm licence every 10 years (for firearms not to be carried outside of the house or property), 3 years (for self-defence) and 1 year (for restricted weapons)36




Firearm Registration


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Civilian Gun Registration

In Colombia, the law requires37 38 31 that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register

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Gun Manufacturer Record Keeping

In Colombia, licensed gun makers are required37 to keep a record of each firearm produced, for inspection by a regulating authority

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State-Owned Firearm Records

In Colombia, State agencies are required37 38 to maintain records of the storage and movement of all firearms and ammunition under their control




Gun Sales and Transfers


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Regulation of Dealer Gun Sales

In Colombia, dealing in firearms by way of business without a valid gun dealer’s licence is unlawful12




Storage and Transport of Guns and Ammunition


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Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Private

Firearm regulations in Colombia include39 36 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of private firearms and ammunition by licensed gun owners

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Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Government

Government regulations in Colombia include39 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition by state entities

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Firearm and Ammunition Transport Regulations

Regulations in Colombia include20 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition while in transit




Marking and Tracing Guns and Ammunition


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Firearm Marking

In Colombia, a unique identifying mark on each firearm is required by law40 41

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Firearm Tracing

In Colombia, state authorities carry out38 recognised arms tracing and tracking procedures

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Ballistic Marking of Firearms and Ammunition

In Colombia, state authorities employ40 ballistic fingerprinting technology to trace guns and ammunition




Carrying Guns


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Carrying Guns Openly in Public

In Colombia, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36

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Carrying Hidden Handguns in Public

In Colombia, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36



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Gun Free Zones

In Colombia, private guns are prohibited in political meetings, elections or public corporations' meetings19


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Penalty for Illicit Firearm Possession

In Colombia, the maximum penalty for illicit possession of firearms is 15 years of prison term36


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Collection, Amnesty and Destruction Programmes

Authorities in Colombia are known to have42 43 44 45 implemented voluntary firearm surrender schemes, and/or weapon seizure programmes in order to reduce the number of illicit firearms in circulation
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Surrendered in Gun Amnesty

In Colombia, the number of firearms and/or rounds of ammunition voluntarily surrendered for destruction in recent arms amnesty and collection programmes is reported to be 18,05146 (2003-06) and 25045 (2010 in Bogota only)

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Small Arms Destroyed

In Colombia, the total number of firearms destroyed following recent amnesty, collection and seizure programmes is reported to be 5,02642 (2002), 28,10343 (2006-2007), 27,864 (2008), 26,01444 (2009) and 9,48745 (2010 in Bogota only)




MeasuresInternational Controls


Regional Agreements



Andean Community

As a member of the Andean Community, Colombia adopted Decision 552: The Andean Plan to Prevent, Fight and Eradicate Illicit Trafficking in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects in June, 200347


Organization of American States

On 14 November 1997, as a member of the Organisation of American States (OAS), Colombia adopted the Inter-American Convention against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Explosives, Ammunition and Other Related Materials (CIFTA), a legally binding multilateral treaty of which the OAS is depository. The CIFTA Convention has since been signed and ratified48 49 by Colombia




United Nations Arms Trade Treaty

In 2009, Colombia voted to begin50 negotiations towards a legally binding Arms Trade Treaty. In this vote, 151 UN Member States supported talks on an ATT, with 1 voting against, 20 abstentions, and 20 non-votes


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United Nations Firearms Protocol

The United Nations Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition has not been signed51 by Colombia



United Nations Small Arms Programme of Action UNPoA



UNPoA Commitment

On 21 July 2001, Colombia committed to a consensus decision of the United Nations to adopt, support and implement the UN Programme of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects52

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UNPoA National Reporting

Under the terms of its 2001 commitment to the United Nations small arms Programme of Action, Colombia has submitted one or more national reports53 54 on its implementation of the UNPoA

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UNPoA National Point of Contact

In Colombia, a National Point of Contact to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55 54

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UNPoA National Coordinating Body

In Colombia, a National Coordinating Body to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55

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UNPoA Civil Society Involvement and Support

In National Reports of Colombia submitted to the UN, a history of substantive cooperation with civil society in support of UNPoA activities is apparent56 55

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UNPoA International Assistance – Donor

Funds for UNPoA implementation have not been donated54 by Colombia to other UN Member States

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UNPoA International Assistance – Recipient

Funds for UNPoA implementation have been provided54 to Colombia by other UN Member States




United Nations Small Arms Register

According to the United Nations Register of Conventional Arms, Colombia has declared3 its small arms exports in one or more annual National Reports on Arms Exports.



United Nations Membership

In the UN List of Member States, Colombia has been a Member State of the United Nations since 194557



Wassenaar Arrangement

The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls and Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies does not list58 Colombia as a Participating State






Last Updated on 24 May 2012
Guns in Colombia: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

 

[koshergrl]

A gun is a gun. Why would I need anything more than a .22? Govt out to get me?

The United States was once a free nation.

Australia was a penal colony.

We have differing views of the relationship between government and the governed.

The USA teeters on the brink of civil war, that is an ugly fact that everyone tries to ignore, but it is a fact.

Australia's crime rate increased by 42 percent when they imposed more restrictive gun laws.

Don't expect the descendants of felons to be truthful about anything, that's the moral here.

 

[Foxfyre]

I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly -

Well, of course, I still blame her. 1st rule of a crazy kid, how about no Guns in the house. my god

At least lock them up. I have an app on my phone that opens my gun safe - which is a short way of saying there is no reason NOT to have a gun safe. It won't slow you down.

But, we don't KNOW whether the guns were locked up at that house. We have people close to us who had no guns in the house of any kind but still kept a chair jammed under the door to their bedroom, in addition to the lock, because they were afraid of their son, but didn't have the heart to throw him out. Not only would you have to lock up the guns with somebody like that in the house, but all knives or other sharp implements, ball bats, heavy objects that could be used as bludgeons, etc. etc. etc.

I am not going to excuse this person because the mother had guns. And that part of the story is also irrelevent to whether school faculties should be allowed the means to defend themselves and the precious children entrusted to them.

 

[Crackerjack]

Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in this hemisphere. Hardly any crime there!

 

[Foxfyre]

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

Absolutely. So would I. Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

You mean letting regular people with guns around a school didn't lead to a bloodbath? Inconceivable!

Nope. And these weren't just regular people, but regular people with no special training to do this duty. So far as I know nobody was shot. I don't think a shot was ever fired. But the predatory drug merchants who had been regular features in that neighborhood vanished never to return.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I can support the principle of sv but am also aware that many private schools would jack the tuition by the amount of the vouchers. They are in business, many of them, for profit, and if the government wants to subsidize them with educational welfare vouchers, well, sure.

why have schools at all? why not just let parents take personal responsibility for the care and safety of their children? if youre worried about your child's safety place in a facility you feel is secure, guns are not the only way to protect children.

what if i dont want guns near my children? should i forced by people like you to be mandated that they be that way?

Sounds like a good argument for school vouchers.

i can agree with school vouchers.

 

[idb]

No, I'm sorry, but it makes no fucking difference at all WHO is trying to kill the children. "It's okay to arm teachers to protect children from the bullets of non-citizens, but citizens' bullets must be met by unarmed, helpless bodies."

Shut. The Fuck. Up.

So, you're happy that the US is the only advanced Western country that has to isolate its kids away in armed fortifications from its own citizens for their protection?

I know this is a very hard concept for you because it won't fit on a bumper sticker, but isn't this the very reason you should be talking about the wider issues...including, but not limited to, firearms regulation.
Nutcases like you are the ones that are endangering your own kids by refusing to discuss these things because it might 'infringe your civil rights'.

Do you get it now you selfish bitch?

Oh, am I? I said that, did I? Show me where I said that, or keep your putrid fucking words out of my mouth, ass munch. If you're too chickenshit to debate MY ACTUAL WORDS, and need to set up a strawman of what you WISH I said to argue against, then just say so now. I won't be surprised to find out that the real me scares you that much.

I know this is a hard concept for you because Obama didn't read it off a teleprompter, but I have no fucking intention of participating in a debate where you think you get to write your posts AND mine, and then I'm expected to defend the pustulent ignorance you spouted.

Nutcases like YOU are the reason that the IQ of the human race keeps dropping.

Do you get it NOW, you moronic little poltroon? Grow a pair, asshole, or stop wasting my time.

The intent of your words is clear, you're OK with comparing the safety of US kids with those in war zones.
Since you don't write with any discernible intelligence beyond being co-ordinated enough to push down on the keys, I'm happy to translate for you.

 

[idb]

The mass shootings, including those in schools, are not a phenomenon unique to the United States. According to a recent CNN article, the U.K., Finland, and Australia, just to name a few, have endured the same kinds of unconscionable massacres. And this after continual and repeated tightening of gun laws in those respective countries.

But I get weary of those who look to countries with different cultures, much tinier in size and population, and designed on much different principles than is the U.S.A. for the answers. But if you insist on doing that, why not look to Israel and other places where faculties are armed, and therefore there are no massacres in their schools?

Why not look to our own people, study our own cultural complexities, and devise policy and systems that will be effective here? And if providing school faculties with the means of protecting the kids against those who would harm them would save a single child from the tragedy that happened at Sandy Hook Elementary, why would any rational person oppose that?

Yes, you have the immediate problem of protecting the kids from nutters but there has to be a greater discussion on why the US is som much more violent than other similar countries.

I don't believe you can compare the measures taken in countries like Israel when they are actually protecting against outside aggressors...they're in the middle of a war zone.
You are looking to protect against other US citizens...shouldn't that be concerning and cause questions to be asked?

If the basic culture isn't addressed where will it end?
Will people start actually living in fortified enclaves to protect themselves while wild-eyed lunatics roam the land outside?

Whatever discussion needs to be had in the United States, and whatever it involves, it won't involve YOU. You have no dog in this fight, and you would not BELIEVE the amount of disinterest in what a bunch of panty-wearing nancy-boys in other countries think of our nation and our culture.

Ha!
Welcome to the worldwide web.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Remember that syntax and diction trouble Cecilie1200.

 

[idb]

You start with protecting the children.

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.

That's what I said.
What are ya...a limp-wristed liberal?

No, you DIDN'T say that. Because nothing you're proposing has anything to do with "protecting" anyone, and everything to do with diddling around, trying to create a perfect world where there's no danger or violence.

At last, an almost coherent sentence.
You obviously have assistance.

Part of an earlier post by me

What I'm saying is that the immediate problem has to be addressed but the wider issues need to be sorted as well so that the levels of violence are reduced and one day schools won't need to be fortresses.

 

[idb]

I know what you're saying.

You're saying there's no point in protecting them. Got it. Let them take their chances.

Is each kid going to have a personal bodyguard?
What happens when they're out of sight of the fire command centre or the pillbox in the middle of the playground?

"I'm a fucking retard! Serious discussion? I'll put a stop to that! We need to discuss my juvenile extremism instead!"

It's bad enough that ruffle-wearing assholes from foreign countries feel the need to vote in issues they haven't been given a ballot for - ie. it's none of your fucking business and no one has asked or will ever ask you - but it says something when they feel the need to screech about their unsolicited and uncounted opinions to the point where they derail the conversations of people who actually MATTER to the topic.

Seriously, dimwit, go die.

Hmmm..."does not understand irony".
Noted.

 

[idb]

Nope, and we are no exception anymore... Terrorism is terrorism, no matter where it is and what form it comes in..

It's amazing what citizens will come to accept as 'normal'.

It's amazing what non-citizens think citizens give a shit about . . . like their uninvolved, unsolicited opinions.

Yep, we're a caring bunch all right.

 

[JakeStarkey]

idb is flogging Cecilie1200! Bet she likes it.

 

[idb]

Oh, am I? I said that, did I? Show me where I said that, or keep your putrid fucking words out of my mouth, ass munch. If you're too chickenshit to debate MY ACTUAL WORDS, and need to set up a strawman of what you WISH I said to argue against, then just say so now. I won't be surprised to find out that the real me scares you that much.

I know this is a hard concept for you because Obama didn't read it off a teleprompter, but I have no fucking intention of participating in a debate where you think you get to write your posts AND mine, and then I'm expected to defend the pustulent ignorance you spouted.

Nutcases like YOU are the reason that the IQ of the human race keeps dropping.

Do you get it NOW, you moronic little poltroon? Grow a pair, asshole, or stop wasting my time.

Yeah I already had this conversation with this ding dong. There's no point in wasting time except via the most shallow interaction with lying trolls.

Beating the snot out of them is therapeutic.

Oh yes, I'm lying in a pool of blood after the beating you gave me.
Oww...owww...and owww again...!

 

[JakeStarkey]

And . . . yet again . . . OWW

 

[idb]

So, if every child can't have an armed bodyguard 24/7, you think we should just pass on protecting them at schools, where everybody knows they congregate and where everybody knows there is no meaningful protection against ANYONE who wants to kill a LOT of people?

Really.

That isn't even reasonable enough to contest. I'll just let it stand on it's own.

When have I ever said that?
But if the only answer to a gun problem is more guns, where is the line to be drawn?

Two lines, actually, neither of which have anything to do with you. Common sense, and people whose business the decision actually is.

If common sense is that common, how have you managed to dodge it so successfully?

 

[koshergrl]

And . . . yet again . . . OWW

I hear a voice calling from the attic, jake...

 

[ABikerSailor]

For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.

1 bullet could have saved countless children.

You DO realize that in all these shootings, NOT A SINGLE CONCEALED CARRY OWNER has ever saved anyone, right?

 

[beagle9]

I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly -

Well, of course, I still blame her. 1st rule of a crazy kid, how about no Guns in the house. my god

Would that be all houses or just her house, and this because she had such a situation going on in her house ? If we would have had security at the school already, and this as a long over due result of what happened at Columbine, then we would never have had the situation at this school in which we ended up with either, or even if we would have had the Principles staff trained and armed, we wouldn't have had this situation at the school because it wouldn't have been a soft target and the kid would have known this.

 

[beagle9]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

To add, I will also say that if there would have been two plain clothes security officers asigned to the school, he may have been taken out as soon as he shot the glass out, and if he would have gotten one of them maybe, then the other security officer would have been right on him to take him out finally. Of course it would have been a shoot out at the school, but this instead of a mass killing of children and their teachers who were trying to shield them with their defenseless bodies.