Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[beagle9]

For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.

1 bullet could have saved countless children.

You DO realize that in all these shootings, NOT A SINGLE CONCEALED CARRY OWNER has ever saved anyone, right?

And so you are saying what then ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[JimBowie1958]

The JimBowies of America are completely out of touch with our country's narrative and cultural imperatives. He is simply a parasite on the body of America.

the extremists and radicals from the far right and far left are each trying to confuse the issue.

They will fail, and neither side will be happy with the laws that will pass this next year.

Tough, suckheads.

EAt shit you lying fuckhead.

And you are a delusional lying bitch who thinks he speaks for all godamn humanity.

Fuck off Starkey you fucking lying peice of shit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

A gun is a gun. Why would I need anything more than a .22? Govt out to get me?

The United States was once a free nation.

Australia was a penal colony.

We have differing views of the relationship between government and the governed.

The USA teeters on the brink of civil war, that is an ugly fact that everyone tries to ignore, but it is a fact.

Australia's crime rate increased by 42 percent when they imposed more restrictive gun laws.

Don't expect the descendants of felons to be truthful about anything, that's the moral here.

So then you think all Democrats and libtards are liars then? That is depressing.

 

[Foxfyre]

For all the long winded arguments the answer is quite simple.

1 bullet could have saved countless children.

You DO realize that in all these shootings, NOT A SINGLE CONCEALED CARRY OWNER has ever saved anyone, right?

Are you sure about that? My own research has turned up numerous cases of people with concealed carry licenses preventing what would almost certainly have been a homicide including some mass shooting events. Here is just one source:

If one of the hundreds of people at the theater had a concealed handgun, possibly the attack would have ended like the shooting at the mega New Life Church in Colorado Springs in December 2007.

In that assault, the church’s minister had given Jeanne Assam permission to carry her concealed handgun. The gunman killed two people in the parking lot — but when he entered the church, Assam fired 10 shots, severely wounding him. At that point, the gunman committed suicide.



Similar stories are available from across the country. They include shootings at schools that were stopped before police arrived in such places as Pearl, Miss., and Edinboro, Pa., and at colleges like the Appalachian Law School in Virginia. Or attacks in busy downtowns such as Memphis; at a mall in Salt Lake City, or at an apartment building in Oklahoma.



The ban against nonpolice carrying guns usually rests on the false notion that almost anyone can suddenly go crazy and start misusing their weapon or that any crossfire with a killer would be worse than the crime itself. But in state after state, permit holders are extremely law-abiding. They can lose their permits for any type of firearms-related violation.



Nor have I found a single example on record of a multiple-victim public shooting in which a permit holder accidentally shot a bystander.


Read more: Concealed weapons save lives - NY Daily News

 

[koshergrl]

Our non-biased media never covers those stories.

 

[beagle9]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

Two things I don't like about this post.

1. Why does it always go back to budgets, suggesting that we don't have the money to do the right things anymore, and especially when we have some of the most rediculous things being paid for by our governemnt, and then also sending millions and/or billions to other governments who hate us, yet we don't have enough to fund a project in order to save the poor lives of our own American children, who died so sadly in the way that they died in this nation last Friday ? Kidding me right ?

2. Then you speak of these teachers volunteering as in no pay for the extra training and certification that they would need + a raise in pay if they became a key man or woman in the situation as is needed. So you are kidding me again Right ? Whats wrong with paying people respectfully for what they know, advance to and/or risk everyday in their jobs accordingly ?

 

[Foxfyre]

Our non-biased media never covers those stories.

That's part of the problem I think. The media goes absolutely bonkers to give non stop coverage for days in case some nut looks for his moment of fame and glory by shooting up a theater or shopping mall or a school of elementary kids. And then the media tries to find some way to blame anything and everything for the massacre other than the shooter himself.

But the ordinary citizen who stops the intended mass murderer doesn't seem to be so newsworthy does he or she. You have to really dig to find those stories.

 

[beagle9]

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

Absolutely. So would I. Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

But arming the willing teachers and making it widely known that some teachers are armed removes schools from the 'gun free' category. And as KG mentioned, that makes it much less attractive to madmen planning massacres. And without going to the expense of security guards.

How about asking the parents and staff if they would want to pitch in in order to have a few security gaurds at their kids schools now, and it may surprise you about what they would say they would do in order to help out. Maybe a penny tax could be ask for in each city town or state just for this reason? The tax would be much more appropriate at this time, and not put any burdon on the parents who don't need such a burdon placed upon them at this time.

 

[idb]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

To add, I will also say that if there would have been two plain clothes security officers asigned to the school, he may have been taken out as soon as he shot the glass out, and if he would have gotten one of them maybe, then the other security officer would have been right on him to take him out finally. Of course it would have been a shoot out at the school, but this instead of a mass killing of children and their teachers who were trying to shield them with their defenseless bodies.

That would make a great movie.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You silly loon believe you speak for the Founders and the "real" intent of America, yet you can't even live with basic terminology and definitions.

You are corrupt, your out of touch, and where did i say I speak "for all godamn humanity." Such a silly exaggeration.

That is why you are a laughing stock on the Board.

The JimBowies of America are completely out of touch with our country's narrative and cultural imperatives. He is simply a parasite on the body of America.

EAt shit you lying fuckhead.

And you are a delusional lying bitch who thinks he speaks for all godamn humanity.

Fuck off Starkey you fucking lying peice of shit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

Two things I don't like about this post.

1. Why does it always go back to budgets, suggesting that we don't have the money to do the right things anymore, and especially when we have some of the most rediculous things being paid for by our governemnt, and then also sending millions and/or billions to other governments who hate us, yet we don't have enough to fund a project in order to save the poor lives of our own American children, who died so sadly in the way that they died in this nation last Friday ? Kidding me right ?

2. Then you speak of these teachers volunteering as in no pay for the extra training and certification that they would need + a raise in pay if they became a key man or woman in the situation as is needed. So you are kidding me again Right ? Whats wrong with paying people respectfully for what they know, advance to and/or risk everyday in their jobs accordingly ?

Because doing what is right, responsible, and intelligent doesn't seem to fit into the national psyche anymore. So I'm going with the situation that exists. Already we give millions of tax payers dollars for assanine studies all over the world while school teachers lack the most basic supplies they need for their classrooms and many pay for these out of their own pockets.

The Senate just voted a $60.4 billion relief bill for Hurricane Sandy relief and it is expected to pass the house and be signed by President Obama. But included in that bill, among various other pork packages, are museum roofs, a subsidy for the Kennedy Space Center, a grant for the Plum Island Animal Disease Center, and $150 million for fishery disasters as far away as Alaska.

So yes, our precious children should be worth any amount of money to keep them safe. In a perfect world we would take the money from non essential programs and hire the security the schools need. But this isn't a perfect world and Congress doesn't spend money on what we need but on what gets them votes. Putting guns in the schools is not exactly a vote getter.

The money to pay the security guards would almost certainly come out of the textbook fund or cost us a teacher or two creating further crowding in the classrooms, etc. So, the more reasonable immediate action is simply to allow existing teachers, who wish to do so, the means to protect themselves and the kids. Sure, pay for any required training necessary to make that as effective as possible, but let the people already there volunteer for the extra duty if they wish to do so.

This would be no different than those dads organizing security against the drug dealers or our local neighborhood watch people, none of whom are paid or compensated in any way for their civic duty.

 

[beagle9]

Our non-biased media never covers those stories.

That's part of the problem I think. The media goes absolutely bonkers to give non stop coverage for days in case some nut looks for his moment of fame and glory by shooting up a theater or shopping mall or a school of elementary kids. And then the media tries to find some way to blame anything and everything for the massacre other than the shooter himself.

But the ordinary citizen who stops the intended mass murderer doesn't seem to be so newsworthy does he or she. You have to really dig to find those stories.

We now live in a nation where hollywood sadly is glorifying evil over and above good, and this is easily found in their messages, games, and in many of their movies in large percentages of anymore.

It seems anymore when turning on a TV or flipping the channels we are just inondated or bombarded with bad stuff (becoming harder and harder to find good in the world), and this is being done in so many ways now that we just can't keep up anymore.

Now all the little minions are falling in lock step with hollywood on these sort of things, especially as they move forward yet having no justification of (or) worse trying to always blame the wrong people or things on this stuff in which is being found in this nation anymore...

This is why they know about those who are around them I think, and ironically even they fear these bad people created as well also (sort of like the Frankenstien syndrone or storyline, except this is for real), but they don't want to change what they have created now, so they figure they can change what we have created instead or worse they would have us take down our defenses as each incident passes us by or hits us like a frieght train straight on?

This nation is under seige by bad people doing bad or contemplating bad things more and more it seems, and the minions are trying to cover for them, and then they want to change America for the worse, and this is what many feel about it all now. 1st they have to get our guns from us, and then on and on it will go from there, and this in order to finish us off finally? There is a connection to the bigger picture, and this situation has proven this or rather has let the cat out of the bag finally.

Hopefully they are just confused, and they really think they are actually doing Ok in life, and that they are not fueling these sorts of things indirectly or directly, and if so, then it is up to us to change them by helping them, and not letting them change us any further instead. We could start by allowing God back into America (found again in government), as so to show we are a good people by this gesture of humblness and goodness again, and not let anyone steal our happiness in which has become the case in America these days, and for to long now.

 

[Politico]

You DO realize that in all these shootings, NOT A SINGLE CONCEALED CARRY OWNER has ever saved anyone, right?

That has been recorded.

 

[eots]

(NaturalNews) In the midst of all the anti-gun hysteria following the senseless murder of 26 people - 20 of them first graders - at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., one story that is repeatedly overlooked is how often a firearm has been used to save lives and stop senseless murders.

We here at Natural News believe the mainstream media, which so often overlooks these kinds of stories because they don't fit into the statist government worldview held by the majority of news editors, has done a disservice to the public by ignoring these acts of selflessness and heroism.

Numerous school massacres stopped by gun owners who wielded their weapons in defense of children

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

You start with protecting the children.

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.

if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.

If I thought my child needed body armor, then I would sure as shit put it on them every single fucking day. Because that's what we do..we take the measures we have to take to protect our kids. That's what a sane society does.

If we need electric wire and check points, then electric wire and check points it is.

Fucking SHEEP RANCHERS buy DOGS and hire ARMED SHEPHERDS to guard their flocks from predators. I guess progressives think children are of less consequence that sheep.

great comparison, your just compared children to sheep and their need to protected by dogs.

wow are you an ignorant fool.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"statist government worldview". Sigh.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

I am also fairly certain that every gun shop in the country would be jumping at the chance to offer "Teacher Discounts" to those teachers who volunteer to be armed and trained at school, in much the same way that other stores offer "Teacher Discounts" for educational and craft supplies.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

Absolutely. So would I. Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

But arming the willing teachers and making it widely known that some teachers are armed removes schools from the 'gun free' category. And as KG mentioned, that makes it much less attractive to madmen planning massacres. And without going to the expense of security guards.

Let me give you guys a couple of lists.

First List:

Columbine, CO
Aurora, CO
Virginia Tech, VA

Second List:

Clackamas Town Center, OR
Pearl, MS
New Life Church, Colorado Springs, CO

The first list looks pretty familiar, I'll bet, and I'll bet equally that the second doesn't. Why is that?

Well, the three on the first list had two things in common: they were all "gun-free zones", and they all hosted mass shootings that left dozens of people dead.

The three on the second list have two things in common as well: all of them were targeted by spree shooters, and all of them were saved from dozens of deaths by armed civilians.

Oh, one other interesting commonality: the three on the first list were reported on widely by the mass media. The three on the second list were barely reported on at all.

John Fund points out in "National Review" that the shooter at the Aurora, CO, movie theater had seven theaters within 20 minutes of his home, and he did NOT simply choose the one closest to him. He very specifically chose the ONE theater out of the seven which bans its customers from bringing their guns inside, which is allowed under Colorado law.

It seems pretty obvious to ME that the danger isn't in crazy people with guns; it's in crazy leftists with gun-free zones.

 

[Foxfyre]

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

Absolutely. So would I. Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

But arming the willing teachers and making it widely known that some teachers are armed removes schools from the 'gun free' category. And as KG mentioned, that makes it much less attractive to madmen planning massacres. And without going to the expense of security guards.

How about asking the parents and staff if they would want to pitch in in order to have a few security gaurds at their kids schools now, and it may surprise you about what they would say they would do in order to help out. Maybe a penny tax could be ask for in each city town or state just for this reason? The tax would be much more appropriate at this time, and not put any burdon on the parents who don't need such a burdon placed upon them at this time.

You're talking about a lot of security guards, however, if all the schools are to get them. And those who could pass the requisite background checks, psych evaluations, etc. plus the benefits and pensions that would factor in would make that an expensive proposition for a politically unpopular program. Still, all your suggestions should not be dismissed out of hand but should certainly factor into the debate.

My instincts lean toward an armed faculty with the training to be effective if needed being a greater deterrant than identifiable guards. But I am open to anything that would work.

One thing that occurred to me would be security bars on ground floor windows that, like home bars are required to be, are releasable from inside the classroom. That could make the windows themselves an emergency exit.

 

[Crackerjack]

"statist government worldview". Sigh.

He's talking about fascist dickholes like you.