Another school shooting....time to arm the teachers?

[Foxfyre]

You start with protecting the children.

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.

if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.

Why not just give the school faculty the means to defend themselves and the children? Why is that so repugnant a concept to so many of you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because teachers are hired to teach, foxfyre, not be armed security personnel for a profession.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I guess it makes sense if the motive is to ensure as many children as possible get killed before anyone does anything....

Pretty sure the goal is to have as many horrific child deaths as possible, in order to stampede people into allowing egregious laws and incursions into their civil liberties, so the leftists can try to engineer their perfect society.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Security Personnel exactly are trained for this type of thing, Foxfyre, and teachers are trained to teach. Do not confuse the required skill sets.

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

 

[koshergrl]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

You start with protecting the children.

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.

if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.

Why not just give the school faculty the means to defend themselves and the children? Why is that so repugnant a concept to so many of you?

why have schools at all? why not just let parents take personal responsibility for the care and safety of their children? if youre worried about your child's safety place in a facility you feel is secure, guns are not the only way to protect children.

what if i dont want guns near my children? should i forced by people like you to be mandated that they be that way?

 

[koshergrl]

You start with protecting the children.

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.

if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.

If I thought my child needed body armor, then I would sure as shit put it on them every single fucking day. Because that's what we do..we take the measures we have to take to protect our kids. That's what a sane society does.

If we need electric wire and check points, then electric wire and check points it is.

Fucking SHEEP RANCHERS buy DOGS and hire ARMED SHEPHERDS to guard their flocks from predators. I guess progressives think children are of less consequence that sheep.

 

[koshergrl]

Of course, as Amy Nation pointed out...this is a cost that isn't to be borne by progressives. They'll hike our taxes up for birth control...

But any cost attendant with PROTECTING children, instead of preventing them or killing them, is suspect and unnecessary, and just too darned spendy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, you're happy that the US is the only advanced Western country that has to isolate its kids away in armed fortifications from its own citizens for their protection?

I know this is a very hard concept for you because it won't fit on a bumper sticker, but isn't this the very reason you should be talking about the wider issues...including, but not limited to, firearms regulation.
Nutcases like you are the ones that are endangering your own kids by refusing to discuss these things because it might 'infringe your civil rights'.

Do you get it now you selfish bitch?

Oh, am I? I said that, did I? Show me where I said that, or keep your putrid fucking words out of my mouth, ass munch. If you're too chickenshit to debate MY ACTUAL WORDS, and need to set up a strawman of what you WISH I said to argue against, then just say so now. I won't be surprised to find out that the real me scares you that much.

I know this is a hard concept for you because Obama didn't read it off a teleprompter, but I have no fucking intention of participating in a debate where you think you get to write your posts AND mine, and then I'm expected to defend the pustulent ignorance you spouted.

Nutcases like YOU are the reason that the IQ of the human race keeps dropping.

Do you get it NOW, you moronic little poltroon? Grow a pair, asshole, or stop wasting my time.

Yeah I already had this conversation with this ding dong. There's no point in wasting time except via the most shallow interaction with lying trolls.

Beating the snot out of them is therapeutic.

 

[Crackerjack]

if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.

Why not just give the school faculty the means to defend themselves and the children? Why is that so repugnant a concept to so many of you?

why have schools at all? why not just let parents take personal responsibility for the care and safety of their children? if youre worried about your child's safety place in a facility you feel is secure, guns are not the only way to protect children.

what if i dont want guns near my children? should i forced by people like you to be mandated that they be that way?

Sounds like a good argument for school vouchers.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Why not just give the school faculty the means to defend themselves and the children? Why is that so repugnant a concept to so many of you?

why have schools at all? why not just let parents take personal responsibility for the care and safety of their children? if youre worried about your child's safety place in a facility you feel is secure, guns are not the only way to protect children.

what if i dont want guns near my children? should i forced by people like you to be mandated that they be that way?

Sounds like a good argument for school vouchers.

i can agree with school vouchers.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

 

[Crackerjack]

Well I am trained and experienced in several different occupations, and not one of them is a reason not to be able to defend myself or those I am responsible for.

Think again of that horrible day. Teachers/administrators doing their damndest to protect the kids with nothing but their unprotected bodies. Seven of them died including the teacher in the classroom where 20 beautiful little kids were slaughtered. The police could not get there in time. A single security guard would almost certainly have been immediately targeted--these massacres are planned out.

If at least some teachers had access to a firearm and the training in how and when to use it, most if not all of those lives could have been saved. Why is that so terrible a concept?

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You start with protecting the children.

Then you address the causes.

But regardless of what the CAUSE is, you protect the children, right now. You don't wait to try various things out. We know how to protect them, it's insane that people propose that we just continue to let them be slaughtered by anyone who wants to target them.

if you really want to protect your children, they why not mandate all children wear body armor? why not mandate they are taught behind high electric fences with barbed wire and security check points? hell why dont you just homeschool them and then they arent in harms way at all? hell dont even ever let them leave the house, because you know they end up in a car accident.

If I really want to protect my children, the first thing I'm going to do is utterly disregard asinine, puerile leftist dipshits . . . like YOU.

It'll be easy. All I'll need to do is ignore any post that starts with, "Why not just . . ." because I know that's going to be followed by something so utterly retarded, meaningless, extremist, and completely designed to accomplish nothing more than to shut down all rational adult conversation that it should automatically win the poster a Darwin Award for "Most likely to cut off his own dick in a shaving accident".

It amazes me how some people can actually lower their own IQs just through the process of allowing words to escape them, and how they can be PROUD of that fact.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I read today that the lady was going to have her son committed, and thus he reacted - badly -

Well, of course, I still blame her. 1st rule of a crazy kid, how about no Guns in the house. my god

At least lock them up. I have an app on my phone that opens my gun safe - which is a short way of saying there is no reason NOT to have a gun safe. It won't slow you down.

 

[koshergrl]

I haven't had guns in my house for some years, because the temperament of my current crop of children isn't such that they would ever be able to resist them. No matter where they're at.

But I had them in my house the entire time I was raising my big boys.

And they were in the house the whole time I was growing up...and my older brother was flipping nuts.

I don't blame anyone for being murdered, even by their own weapons. She has a right to her weapons, who knows, maybe they were locked up, and he got them out somehow. We don't know. Kids who kill their parents will go to pretty incredible lengths to do it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Statistics show us that mass killings are planned in gun-free zones. So an armed guard probably wouldn't have been targeted but avoided. The shooter would have chosen a different place, like a movie theatre with "no guns allowed" signs all over the lobby..like the batman killer did.

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

Absolutely. So would I. Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

But arming the willing teachers and making it widely known that some teachers are armed removes schools from the 'gun free' category. And as KG mentioned, that makes it much less attractive to madmen planning massacres. And without going to the expense of security guards.

 

[Crackerjack]

I'm not dissing the concept of a security guard. We currently have thousands of unemployed military veterans who would probably relish such an opportunity. But there are also budget concerns. School teachers are already spending their own money for essential classroom supplies. I am pretty sure there are at least a few teachers in most, if not all schools, who are already hunters or sports gun advocates who would jump at the chance to volunteer for additional training in order to keep a secured firearm at school. Wouldn't you, if you were a teacher? I sure would.

Nobody is saying that it should be mandatory or expected of any teacher. But those who are interested, capable, and willing to volunteer for some extra training and the opportunity to accept the responsibility, why not?

I would definitely do it at my daughter's school on a volunteer basis during my down time.

Absolutely. So would I. Volunteer armed fathers patroled our elementary school up on the mountain to run the drug dealers off and it worked.

You mean letting regular people with guns around a school didn't lead to a bloodbath? Inconceivable!

 

[koshergrl]

How does Columbia rate on the "death by firearm" chart?

I think they're pretty high...

In Colombia, civilians are not allowed to possess pistols and revolvers of calibre superior to 9.652mm, automatic arms, semi-automatic rifles and carbines over 22 caliber LR, arms with military-style devices (infrared and laser sights, grenade launchers and silencers) and ammunition for these arms29
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Regulation of Automatic Assault Weapons

In Colombia, private possession of fully automatic weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

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Regulation of Semiautomatic Assault Weapons

In Colombia, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is prohibited with only narrow exemptions29 30 31

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Regulation of Handguns

In Colombia, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted under licence32 31



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Gun Owner Licensing

In Colombia, only licensed gun owners19 28 33 may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition
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Genuine Reason Required for Firearm Licence

Applicants for a gun owner’s licence in Colombia are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, personal protection, security, hunting, target shooting, collection34 33

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Minimum Age for Firearm Possession

The minimum age for gun ownership in Colombia is 18 years33

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Gun Owner Background Checks

An applicant for a firearm licence in Colombia must pass background checks which consider criminal and mental33 records

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Domestic Violence and Firearms

Where a past history, or apprehended likelihood of family violence exists, the law in Colombia stipulates35 that a gun licence should be denied or revoked

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Gun Owner Licensing Period

In Colombia gun owners must re-apply and re-qualify for their firearm licence every 10 years (for firearms not to be carried outside of the house or property), 3 years (for self-defence) and 1 year (for restricted weapons)36




Firearm Registration


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Civilian Gun Registration

In Colombia, the law requires37 38 31 that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register

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Gun Manufacturer Record Keeping

In Colombia, licensed gun makers are required37 to keep a record of each firearm produced, for inspection by a regulating authority

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State-Owned Firearm Records

In Colombia, State agencies are required37 38 to maintain records of the storage and movement of all firearms and ammunition under their control




Gun Sales and Transfers


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Regulation of Dealer Gun Sales

In Colombia, dealing in firearms by way of business without a valid gun dealer’s licence is unlawful12




Storage and Transport of Guns and Ammunition


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Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Private

Firearm regulations in Colombia include39 36 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of private firearms and ammunition by licensed gun owners

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Firearm and Ammunition Storage Regulations - Government

Government regulations in Colombia include39 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition by state entities

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Firearm and Ammunition Transport Regulations

Regulations in Colombia include20 written specifications for the lawful safe storage of firearms and ammunition while in transit




Marking and Tracing Guns and Ammunition


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Firearm Marking

In Colombia, a unique identifying mark on each firearm is required by law40 41

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Firearm Tracing

In Colombia, state authorities carry out38 recognised arms tracing and tracking procedures

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Ballistic Marking of Firearms and Ammunition

In Colombia, state authorities employ40 ballistic fingerprinting technology to trace guns and ammunition




Carrying Guns


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Carrying Guns Openly in Public

In Colombia, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36

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Carrying Hidden Handguns in Public

In Colombia, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit19 28 36



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Gun Free Zones

In Colombia, private guns are prohibited in political meetings, elections or public corporations' meetings19


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Penalty for Illicit Firearm Possession

In Colombia, the maximum penalty for illicit possession of firearms is 15 years of prison term36


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Collection, Amnesty and Destruction Programmes

Authorities in Colombia are known to have42 43 44 45 implemented voluntary firearm surrender schemes, and/or weapon seizure programmes in order to reduce the number of illicit firearms in circulation
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Surrendered in Gun Amnesty

In Colombia, the number of firearms and/or rounds of ammunition voluntarily surrendered for destruction in recent arms amnesty and collection programmes is reported to be 18,05146 (2003-06) and 25045 (2010 in Bogota only)

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Small Arms Destroyed

In Colombia, the total number of firearms destroyed following recent amnesty, collection and seizure programmes is reported to be 5,02642 (2002), 28,10343 (2006-2007), 27,864 (2008), 26,01444 (2009) and 9,48745 (2010 in Bogota only)




MeasuresInternational Controls


Regional Agreements



Andean Community

As a member of the Andean Community, Colombia adopted Decision 552: The Andean Plan to Prevent, Fight and Eradicate Illicit Trafficking in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects in June, 200347


Organization of American States

On 14 November 1997, as a member of the Organisation of American States (OAS), Colombia adopted the Inter-American Convention against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Explosives, Ammunition and Other Related Materials (CIFTA), a legally binding multilateral treaty of which the OAS is depository. The CIFTA Convention has since been signed and ratified48 49 by Colombia




United Nations Arms Trade Treaty

In 2009, Colombia voted to begin50 negotiations towards a legally binding Arms Trade Treaty. In this vote, 151 UN Member States supported talks on an ATT, with 1 voting against, 20 abstentions, and 20 non-votes


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United Nations Firearms Protocol

The United Nations Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition has not been signed51 by Colombia



United Nations Small Arms Programme of Action UNPoA



UNPoA Commitment

On 21 July 2001, Colombia committed to a consensus decision of the United Nations to adopt, support and implement the UN Programme of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects52

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UNPoA National Reporting

Under the terms of its 2001 commitment to the United Nations small arms Programme of Action, Colombia has submitted one or more national reports53 54 on its implementation of the UNPoA

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UNPoA National Point of Contact

In Colombia, a National Point of Contact to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55 54

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UNPoA National Coordinating Body

In Colombia, a National Coordinating Body to deal with issues relating to the UNPoA has been designated55

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UNPoA Civil Society Involvement and Support

In National Reports of Colombia submitted to the UN, a history of substantive cooperation with civil society in support of UNPoA activities is apparent56 55

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UNPoA International Assistance – Donor

Funds for UNPoA implementation have not been donated54 by Colombia to other UN Member States

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UNPoA International Assistance – Recipient

Funds for UNPoA implementation have been provided54 to Colombia by other UN Member States




United Nations Small Arms Register

According to the United Nations Register of Conventional Arms, Colombia has declared3 its small arms exports in one or more annual National Reports on Arms Exports.



United Nations Membership

In the UN List of Member States, Colombia has been a Member State of the United Nations since 194557



Wassenaar Arrangement

The Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls and Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies does not list58 Colombia as a Participating State






Last Updated on 24 May 2012
Guns in Colombia: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law