Arctic ice thins dramatically

[Rambunctious]

It's one thing when someone tells you the sky is falling, but it's another thing when they tell you they need your money to stop it.

 

[RWatt]

If the atmosphere of Venus could not absorb infrared it would cool significantly and the pressure would drop.

Lets see some science that proves such a rediculous statement.

Venus is only absorbing 65 watts per square meter of sunlight. It's surface at 460 degrees C is emitting over 10,000 watts per square meter of infrared.

If all that infrared just escaped into space (as it would if the atmosphere was transparent to infrared) Venus would be losing massive amounts of energy and would cool.

By the way, "greenhouse" gasses don't trap infrared. They absorb and emit precisely the same amount and the waves they emit are to long to be absorbed by another like molecule.

They emit better when they are warmer. So in an atmosphere where temperature drops with height, they do effectively trap heat because the greenhouse gases at higher levels are just as able to absorb as at lower levels, but less able to emit.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If the atmosphere of Venus could not absorb infrared it would cool significantly and the pressure would drop.

Lets see some science that proves such a rediculous statement. By the way, "greenhouse" gasses don't trap infrared. They absorb and emit precisely the same amount and the waves they emit are to long to be absorbed by another like molecule.

Some of that is remitted back to the surface that adds more energy to the lower Atmosphere. Right?

 

[ScienceRocks]

If the atmosphere of Venus could not absorb infrared it would cool significantly and the pressure would drop.

Lets see some science that proves such a rediculous statement.

Venus is only absorbing 65 watts per square meter of sunlight. It's surface at 460 degrees C is emitting over 10,000 watts per square meter of infrared.

If all that infrared just escaped into space (as it would if the atmosphere was transparent to infrared) Venus would be losing massive amounts of energy and would cool.

By the way, "greenhouse" gasses don't trap infrared. They absorb and emit precisely the same amount and the waves they emit are to long to be absorbed by another like molecule.

They emit better when they are warmer. So in an atmosphere where temperature drops with height, they do effectively trap heat because the greenhouse gases at higher levels are just as able to absorb as at lower levels, but less able to emit.

This is also my understanding of the green house effect.

 

[saveliberty]

According to my utility bill this year is running colder than last year and last year was a cool year for us. It has also rained considerably more. Colder air cannot hold as much moisture, so it makes sense it would have to shed the moisture in the form of precipitation.

 

[Chris]

 

[skookerasbil]

Why is it the alarmist k00ks never want to discuss Antarctica??

Oooooooooooops!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[ScienceRocks]

Why is it the alarmist k00ks never want to discuss Antarctica??

Oooooooooooops!!!!

I often wonder about Antarctica myself, but I guess it is not warming because of the circulation patterns keep the warming out.

 

[Old Rocks]

Accelerating ice loss from the fastest Greenland and Antarctic glaciers

Ice discharge from the fastest glaciers draining the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets – Jakobshavn Isbrae (JI) and Pine Island Glacier (PIG)– continues to increase, and is now more than double that needed to balance snowfall in their catchment basins. Velocity increase probably resulted from decreased buttressing from thinning (and, for JI, breakup) of their floating ice tongues, and from reduced basal drag as grounding lines on both glaciers retreat. JI flows directly into the ocean as it becomes afloat, and here creep rates are proportional to the cube of bed depth. Rapid thinning of the PIG ice shelf increases the likelihood of its breakup, and subsequent rapid increase in discharge velocity. Results from a simple model indicate that JI velocities should almost double to >20 km a−1 by 2015, with velocities on PIG increasing to >10 km a−1 after breakup of its ice shelf. These high velocities would probably be sustained over many decades as the glaciers retreat within their long, very deep troughs. Resulting sea-level rise would average about 1.5 mm a−1.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

14,000 years ago Old Pebbles was railing against the use of Fire because the ice was starting to melt.

 

[westwall]

Accelerating ice loss from the fastest Greenland and Antarctic glaciers

Ice discharge from the fastest glaciers draining the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets – Jakobshavn Isbrae (JI) and Pine Island Glacier (PIG)– continues to increase, and is now more than double that needed to balance snowfall in their catchment basins. Velocity increase probably resulted from decreased buttressing from thinning (and, for JI, breakup) of their floating ice tongues, and from reduced basal drag as grounding lines on both glaciers retreat. JI flows directly into the ocean as it becomes afloat, and here creep rates are proportional to the cube of bed depth. Rapid thinning of the PIG ice shelf increases the likelihood of its breakup, and subsequent rapid increase in discharge velocity. Results from a simple model indicate that JI velocities should almost double to >20 km a−1 by 2015, with velocities on PIG increasing to >10 km a−1 after breakup of its ice shelf. These high velocities would probably be sustained over many decades as the glaciers retreat within their long, very deep troughs. Resulting sea-level rise would average about 1.5 mm a−1.

It seems they have left some info out. Here's some more.


"East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said.

The melting of sea ice - fast ice and pack ice - does not cause sea levels to rise because the ice is in the water. Sea levels may rise with losses from freshwater ice sheets on the polar caps. In Antarctica, these losses are in the form of icebergs calved from ice shelves formed by glacial movements on the mainland.

Last week, federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said experts predicted sea level rises of up to 6m from Antarctic melting by 2100, but the worst case scenario foreshadowed by the SCAR report was a 1.25m rise.

Mr Garrett insisted global warming was causing ice losses throughout Antarctica. "I don't think there's any doubt it is contributing to what we've seen both on the Wilkins shelf and more generally in Antarctica," he said.

Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. "The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west," he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual.

"Ice shelves in general have episodic carvings and there can be large icebergs breaking off - I'm talking 100km or 200km long - every 10 or 20 or 50 years."

Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m.

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded."


Read more: Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au





Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Accelerating ice loss from the fastest Greenland and Antarctic glaciers

Ice discharge from the fastest glaciers draining the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets – Jakobshavn Isbrae (JI) and Pine Island Glacier (PIG)– continues to increase, and is now more than double that needed to balance snowfall in their catchment basins. Velocity increase probably resulted from decreased buttressing from thinning (and, for JI, breakup) of their floating ice tongues, and from reduced basal drag as grounding lines on both glaciers retreat. JI flows directly into the ocean as it becomes afloat, and here creep rates are proportional to the cube of bed depth. Rapid thinning of the PIG ice shelf increases the likelihood of its breakup, and subsequent rapid increase in discharge velocity. Results from a simple model indicate that JI velocities should almost double to >20 km a−1 by 2015, with velocities on PIG increasing to >10 km a−1 after breakup of its ice shelf. These high velocities would probably be sustained over many decades as the glaciers retreat within their long, very deep troughs. Resulting sea-level rise would average about 1.5 mm a−1.

It seems they have left some info out. Here's some more.


"East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said.

The melting of sea ice - fast ice and pack ice - does not cause sea levels to rise because the ice is in the water. Sea levels may rise with losses from freshwater ice sheets on the polar caps. In Antarctica, these losses are in the form of icebergs calved from ice shelves formed by glacial movements on the mainland.

Last week, federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said experts predicted sea level rises of up to 6m from Antarctic melting by 2100, but the worst case scenario foreshadowed by the SCAR report was a 1.25m rise.

Mr Garrett insisted global warming was causing ice losses throughout Antarctica. "I don't think there's any doubt it is contributing to what we've seen both on the Wilkins shelf and more generally in Antarctica," he said.

Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. "The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west," he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual.

"Ice shelves in general have episodic carvings and there can be large icebergs breaking off - I'm talking 100km or 200km long - every 10 or 20 or 50 years."

Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m.

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded."


Read more: Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au



Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au

Sometimes the ice increase and it gets colder during Global Warming.

Yeah.

That has to be it.

Nothing else fits our predetermine outcome

 

[saveliberty]

I predict they will predict a new ice age in my lifetime. <yawn>

 

[Chris]

 

[ScienceRocks]

Accelerating ice loss from the fastest Greenland and Antarctic glaciers

Ice discharge from the fastest glaciers draining the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets &#8211; Jakobshavn Isbrae (JI) and Pine Island Glacier (PIG)&#8211; continues to increase, and is now more than double that needed to balance snowfall in their catchment basins. Velocity increase probably resulted from decreased buttressing from thinning (and, for JI, breakup) of their floating ice tongues, and from reduced basal drag as grounding lines on both glaciers retreat. JI flows directly into the ocean as it becomes afloat, and here creep rates are proportional to the cube of bed depth. Rapid thinning of the PIG ice shelf increases the likelihood of its breakup, and subsequent rapid increase in discharge velocity. Results from a simple model indicate that JI velocities should almost double to >20 km a&#8722;1 by 2015, with velocities on PIG increasing to >10 km a&#8722;1 after breakup of its ice shelf. These high velocities would probably be sustained over many decades as the glaciers retreat within their long, very deep troughs. Resulting sea-level rise would average about 1.5 mm a&#8722;1.

It seems they have left some info out. Here's some more.


"East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said.

The melting of sea ice - fast ice and pack ice - does not cause sea levels to rise because the ice is in the water. Sea levels may rise with losses from freshwater ice sheets on the polar caps. In Antarctica, these losses are in the form of icebergs calved from ice shelves formed by glacial movements on the mainland.

Last week, federal Environment Minister Peter Garrett said experts predicted sea level rises of up to 6m from Antarctic melting by 2100, but the worst case scenario foreshadowed by the SCAR report was a 1.25m rise.

Mr Garrett insisted global warming was causing ice losses throughout Antarctica. "I don't think there's any doubt it is contributing to what we've seen both on the Wilkins shelf and more generally in Antarctica," he said.

Dr Allison said there was not any evidence of significant change in the mass of ice shelves in east Antarctica nor any indication that its ice cap was melting. "The only significant calvings in Antarctica have been in the west," he said. And he cautioned that calvings of the magnitude seen recently in west Antarctica might not be unusual.

"Ice shelves in general have episodic carvings and there can be large icebergs breaking off - I'm talking 100km or 200km long - every 10 or 20 or 50 years."

Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m.

A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded."


Read more: Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au



Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au

Sometimes the ice increase and it gets colder during Global Warming.

Yeah.

That has to be it.

Nothing else fits our predetermine outcome

Antarctica is kind of cut off from the rest of the earth as a strong circulation protects it from becoming warmer. Also a "warmer" Antarctica would have more moisture=more snow. See it is so fucking cold down there that any extra moisture would fall as SNOW. In fact there are places in Antarctica that hardly see moisture at all, meaning, lucky to have a inch of snow per year because of how damn cold it is. Went to see more snow then warm it up=more moisture and of course more snow. You get growing glacial if you get more snow of course. hehehe

 

[Chris]

 

[Old Rocks]

Antarctic sea ice is remaining stable or even increasing slightly. Ice on the continent of Antarctica is declining, even in East Antarctica

BBC News - Polar ice loss quickens, raising seas

One calculates ice gain and loss through combining various types of satellite reading and data taken on the ground, for example the thickness of the ice sheet and the speed at which glaciers are moving.

The second dataset comes from Nasa's Grace mission, which uses twin satellites to measure variations in the Earth's gravitational pull.

Ice loss causes a fractional reduction in gravity at that point on the Earth's surface.

Two years ago, this mission surprised some in the research community by showing that even the vast and frigid East Antarctic ice sheet was losing some of its mass to the oceans.

 

[Chris]

Antarctica is not warming as much because there's a hole in the ozone there larger than the continent itself.

That we created.

But the oceans have warmed up so much that the ice shelves are beginning to melt.

 

[westwall]

Accelerating ice loss from the fastest Greenland and Antarctic glaciers

Ice discharge from the fastest glaciers draining the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets – Jakobshavn Isbrae (JI) and Pine Island Glacier (PIG)– continues to increase, and is now more than double that needed to balance snowfall in their catchment basins. Velocity increase probably resulted from decreased buttressing from thinning (and, for JI, breakup) of their floating ice tongues, and from reduced basal drag as grounding lines on both glaciers retreat. JI flows directly into the ocean as it becomes afloat, and here creep rates are proportional to the cube of bed depth. Rapid thinning of the PIG ice shelf increases the likelihood of its breakup, and subsequent rapid increase in discharge velocity. Results from a simple model indicate that JI velocities should almost double to >20 km a&#8722;1 by 2015, with velocities on PIG increasing to >10 km a&#8722;1 after breakup of its ice shelf. These high velocities would probably be sustained over many decades as the glaciers retreat within their long, very deep troughs. Resulting sea-level rise would average about 1.5 mm a&#8722;1.

A perfect example of the warmists selective evidence presentation....you forgot this olfraud... I highlighted the relevent section. The ice accretion has been measured in the THOUSANDS of feet. But hey, don't let a little thing like science get in your way....


"Studies of under-ice lakes in Antarctica first alerted scientists to the capability of pooled melt-water to refreeze on the bottom of ice sheets and deform the upper layers. But this accretion ice was considered an anomaly "a weird thing that happened over sub-glacial lakes," not over the entire ice sheet, Antarctic geophysicist Robin E. Bell of Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory told Discovery News.

But in examining bright spots found at the bottom of the Antarctic ice sheet, Bell and colleagues have since discovered water is interacting with over a quarter of the bottom of the ice sheet - freezing and pushing the entire ice sheet up in a way that is surprisingly similar to the lake effect. "In fact, I'd forgotten the connection until last night," she said in an interview today.

The new discovery is adding an unknown dimension to the overall layer-cake growth model for ice sheets: that ice sheets gain height one layer at a time as the amount of snow falling on the top outpaces the amount of ice melting at the bottom. Bell and her team using ice-penetrating radar atop Antarctica have just turned this idea upside down.

"In some places up to half the ice thickness has been added from below," Bell and her international team of colleagues, reported in the new issue of the online journal Sciencexpress."



Antarctica Growing From The Bottom Up : Discovery News