Arctic Wetlands: The Doomsday Bomb?

[TheTechnologist]

THE EARTH IS DYING!!! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

Fucking envirocultist nuttards.

Stupid redneck bitch that knows nothing of science. Tens of thousands of home in the US damaged or destroyed by extreme weather events this year, yet turds like you deny anything is changing. LOL

Altered data fed through flawed computer models is not "Science"

Prove the data is altered and provide us the real data, otherwise just shut up about your stupid conspiracy theories.

 

[LOki]

I asked the Danish Meteorological Institute Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut if they were keeping track of the 10C isotherm boundary for the Arctic circle.

They were not. And they are the foremost temperature data on the Arctic in that regards.

The reason this matters is Methane production by wetlands behaves like the Arctic about 5C and below, but behaves like the Tropics about 10C and above.

The evidence for that behavior is in research papers I can try and find but don't have at the time of this writing.

Basically, very little Methane produced by wetlands under 5C, and a lot of Methane produced by wetlands above 10C, with the optimum being somewhere around 32C.

That being said, the Arctic Wetlands, which are currently in a "phase" change from permafrost to arctic wetland, will be crossing the 10C isotherm boundary soon.

It's currently happening, and I think it is the greatest over looked source of Methane today.

And the total area of possible wetlands in the Arctic is GREATER than the current naturally occurring wetlands on Earth today. So the balance of Methane will permanently shift even higher as the Arctic becomes "activated".

I don't think the Earth can currently survive its +4w/m^2 GHG concentration, let alone a full doubling of the Methane component (which accounts for about 1.5 of those watts.).

One Solar Maximum will add another full 1 watt to that input, and the Earth will be pushed over a limit then. That will probably be the straw to break the camel's back, a Solar maximum to push the Arctic fully into a 10C isotherm during summers.

I hope this is true... so I can stop burning tires in my back yard.

 

[TheTechnologist]

...and the only way we can prevent this is by surrendering our wealth, freedom and sovereignty to a New World Government

You can take that strawman and shove it up your ass.

So, what's the "fix"?

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Er, wait, according to IPCC5 90% of the excess heat is trapped -- like a rat! -- in the oceans, so what's "warming" the Arctic in summer?

The other 10%. What takes more energy? To boil water? Or to heat air to 100C. Your disbelief comes from your kindergarten understanding of basic physics.

Can you please walk me through how atmospheric CO2 is able to warm the ocean with 1/3 of the warming trapped -- like a rat! at 700-2000m below sea level?

<Insert nonsensical, reply not on topic>

Yeah, didn't think so

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...and the only way we can prevent this is by surrendering our wealth, freedom and sovereignty to a New World Government

You can take that strawman and shove it up your ass.

So, what's the "fix"?

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

You don't have a fix? What's causing this imaginary "problem"?

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm not talking about the releasing of Methane and CO2 in permafrost. I'm talking about the actual production of methane, Methanogenesis, during temperature conditions in wetlands.

The Arctic currently is not producing much methane at all.

But when it warms past 5C, and certainly past 10C, it produces as much as the Tropics (maybe 10-15% less, but that's splitting hairs).

yedoma
A type of Pleistocene-age (formed 1.8 million to 10,000 years before present) permafrost that contains a significant amount of organic material with ice content of 50– to 90 percent by volume. Thawing yedoma is a significant source of atmospheric methane.

A yedoma in Russia shows the thick layer of ice and carbon material exposed along this body of water. --Credit: Vladimir Romanovsky

yedoma | National Snow and Ice Data Center

There are areas where the yedoma is already producing significant amounts of CH4, if the wetlands warm, these areas will also warm. The combination will definitely have an affect of the increase of GHGs in the atmosphere.

 

[toobfreak]

The Arctic is going to 10C? Really?

Is this latest prediction from the same people who told us that, "snow is a thing of the past"?

I guess you're a fucking retard

In your case there is absolutely no need to guess.

 

[Old Rocks]

Er, wait, according to IPCC5 90% of the excess heat is trapped -- like a rat! -- in the oceans, so what's "warming" the Arctic in summer?

The other 10%. What takes more energy? To boil water? Or to heat air to 100C. Your disbelief comes from your kindergarten understanding of basic physics.

Can you please walk me through how atmospheric CO2 is able to warm the ocean with 1/3 of the warming trapped -- like a rat! at 700-2000m below sea level?

<Insert nonsensical, reply not on topic>

Yeah, didn't think so

Frankie boi, how did you get to be such a dumb fuck? Work at it all you life? LOL

 

[TheTechnologist]

I'm not talking about the releasing of Methane and CO2 in permafrost. I'm talking about the actual production of methane, Methanogenesis, during temperature conditions in wetlands.

The Arctic currently is not producing much methane at all.

But when it warms past 5C, and certainly past 10C, it produces as much as the Tropics (maybe 10-15% less, but that's splitting hairs).

yedoma
A type of Pleistocene-age (formed 1.8 million to 10,000 years before present) permafrost that contains a significant amount of organic material with ice content of 50– to 90 percent by volume. Thawing yedoma is a significant source of atmospheric methane.

A yedoma in Russia shows the thick layer of ice and carbon material exposed along this body of water. --Credit: Vladimir Romanovsky

yedoma | National Snow and Ice Data Center

There are areas where the yedoma is already producing significant amounts of CH4, if the wetlands warm, these areas will also warm. The combination will definitely have an affect of the increase of GHGs in the atmosphere.

Yes I am familiar with off-gassing of Permafrost but I'm explaining the under-valued contribution from increasing times that the Arctic methanogenesis behaves like the tropics compared to its usual times it behaves like the arctic.

That is what I think is a major driving force of Methane into the atmosphere that most aren't even talking about yet. But there is discussion starting on this path.

 

[TheTechnologist]

The Arctic is going to 10C? Really?

Is this latest prediction from the same people who told us that, "snow is a thing of the past"?

I guess you're a fucking retard

In your case there is absolutely no need to guess.

And you have a pile of poop on your head. (This is the level of discourse you're worth).

 

[TheTechnologist]

...and the only way we can prevent this is by surrendering our wealth, freedom and sovereignty to a New World Government

You can take that strawman and shove it up your ass.

So, what's the "fix"?

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

You don't have a fix? What's causing this imaginary "problem"?

The problem isn't imaginary, and has been explained in detail.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

THE EARTH IS DYING!!! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

Fucking envirocultist nuttards.

Stupid redneck bitch that knows nothing of science. Tens of thousands of home in the US damaged or destroyed by extreme weather events this year, yet turds like you deny anything is changing. LOL

Altered data fed through flawed computer models is not "Science"

Prove the data is altered and provide us the real data, otherwise just shut up about your stupid conspiracy theories.

That help?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...and the only way we can prevent this is by surrendering our wealth, freedom and sovereignty to a New World Government

You can take that strawman and shove it up your ass.

So, what's the "fix"?

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

You don't have a fix? What's causing this imaginary "problem"?

The problem isn't imaginary, and has been explained in detail.

What causes this "problem?"

 

[toobfreak]

The reason this matters is Methane production by wetlands behaves like the Arctic about 5C and below, but behaves like the Tropics about 10C and above.

Butbut, methane is GOOD! It makes me think of cows farts and that always makes me think of Snowflake Liberals who are one big loud cow fart.

I don't think the Earth can currently survive its +4w/m^2 GHG concentration, let alone a full doubling of the Methane component (which accounts for about 1.5 of those watts.). One Solar Maximum will add another full 1 watt to that input, and the Earth will be pushed over a limit then. That will probably be the straw to break the camel's back, a Solar maximum to push the Arctic fully into a 10C isotherm during summers.

Let's note that. Thanks for letting us know the end is near. I guess you also think the oceans are running dry from evaporation? Just as you fail to recognize the mechanisms of rainfall returning water to the Sea, the Earth is self-balancing taking the excess methane and returning it back in the form of storage in rock and organic matter. The Earth knows what she's doing even if you do not. But Liberals cannot understand that as they think they PERSONALLY must micromanage the Climate just as they think it is their mission to micromanage other people's lives.

So our hope of reducing dangerous levels of Methane is to wait 1 billion years for it to be sequestered in Rock formations?

The OH- reaction that balances Methane back into CO2 (then into Rocks) is breaking down which is why Methane has increased by 2.5x in the last 200 years.

Meanwhile we don't have that long to wait, due to the massive amount of energy Methane adds to the system.

Uh Oh! Sucks to be you! I guess your days are limited, meantime, the Earth will roll along just fine and adapt like it has for 4.5 billion years. Liberals, not so much.

 

[TheTechnologist]

THE EARTH IS DYING!!! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG

Fucking envirocultist nuttards.

Stupid redneck bitch that knows nothing of science. Tens of thousands of home in the US damaged or destroyed by extreme weather events this year, yet turds like you deny anything is changing. LOL

Altered data fed through flawed computer models is not "Science"

Prove the data is altered and provide us the real data, otherwise just shut up about your stupid conspiracy theories.

That help?

Throwing around gifs of crap that have no context is the best you got?

 

[TheTechnologist]

You can take that strawman and shove it up your ass.

So, what's the "fix"?

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

You don't have a fix? What's causing this imaginary "problem"?

The problem isn't imaginary, and has been explained in detail.

What causes this "problem?"

The physical properties of GHGs, were you born yesterday?

 

[westwall]

I asked the Danish Meteorological Institute Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut if they were keeping track of the 10C isotherm boundary for the Arctic circle.

They were not. And they are the foremost temperature data on the Arctic in that regards.

The reason this matters is Methane production by wetlands behaves like the Arctic about 5C and below, but behaves like the Tropics about 10C and above.

The evidence for that behavior is in research papers I can try and find but don't have at the time of this writing.

Basically, very little Methane produced by wetlands under 5C, and a lot of Methane produced by wetlands above 10C, with the optimum being somewhere around 32C.

That being said, the Arctic Wetlands, which are currently in a "phase" change from permafrost to arctic wetland, will be crossing the 10C isotherm boundary soon.

It's currently happening, and I think it is the greatest over looked source of Methane today.

And the total area of possible wetlands in the Arctic is GREATER than the current naturally occurring wetlands on Earth today. So the balance of Methane will permanently shift even higher as the Arctic becomes "activated".

I don't think the Earth can currently survive its +4w/m^2 GHG concentration, let alone a full doubling of the Methane component (which accounts for about 1.5 of those watts.).

One Solar Maximum will add another full 1 watt to that input, and the Earth will be pushed over a limit then. That will probably be the straw to break the camel's back, a Solar maximum to push the Arctic fully into a 10C isotherm during summers.

The last time this happened, we all died!!!!!

The last time this happened, most of the Earth died and the Earth became "Hot House Earth" where a new biome grew in the place of a massive extinction.

That biome was mostly Tropical even up to the Arctic Circle, where Tropical plants and Crocodillian fossils are still found.

Because Snakes are temperature dependent on their growth, the largest snakes were 2,000+ pounds and as long as busses. The Titanoboa.

That is provably untrue. The PETM witnessed an explosion of life. All life did well during the "hot house Earth". The silly people who try and claim it as a mass extinction look at some very localized foram deaths (attributed to anoxia) as the evidence for the claim.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, what's the "fix"?

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

You don't have a fix? What's causing this imaginary "problem"?

The problem isn't imaginary, and has been explained in detail.

What causes this "problem?"

The physical properties of GHGs, were you born yesterday?

So you're going to change the physical properties of GHG's?

 

[Old Rocks]

The reason this matters is Methane production by wetlands behaves like the Arctic about 5C and below, but behaves like the Tropics about 10C and above.

Butbut, methane is GOOD! It makes me think of cows farts and that always makes me think of Snowflake Liberals who are one big loud cow fart.

I don't think the Earth can currently survive its +4w/m^2 GHG concentration, let alone a full doubling of the Methane component (which accounts for about 1.5 of those watts.). One Solar Maximum will add another full 1 watt to that input, and the Earth will be pushed over a limit then. That will probably be the straw to break the camel's back, a Solar maximum to push the Arctic fully into a 10C isotherm during summers.

Let's note that. Thanks for letting us know the end is near. I guess you also think the oceans are running dry from evaporation? Just as you fail to recognize the mechanisms of rainfall returning water to the Sea, the Earth is self-balancing taking the excess methane and returning it back in the form of storage in rock and organic matter. The Earth knows what she's doing even if you do not. But Liberals cannot understand that as they think they PERSONALLY must micromanage the Climate just as they think it is their mission to micromanage other people's lives.

OK, Toob, present some scientific evidence for your stance on this subject.

 

[TheTechnologist]

I don't have to provide a fix to prove there's a problem.

Where did you learn logic? At Spock's "Center for Kids Who Can't Logic Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

You don't have a fix? What's causing this imaginary "problem"?

The problem isn't imaginary, and has been explained in detail.

What causes this "problem?"

The physical properties of GHGs, were you born yesterday?

So you're going to change the physical properties of GHG's?

You continue to focus on a fix rather than admitting there's a problem. You must work at Walmart because surely you don't work in the Planning stages of any major important project.