Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[buttercup]

First, I appreciate your respectful tone.

Second, as far as Jews becoming followers of Jesus, it is really a very relative few. Campaigns such as Jews for Jesus fail miserably, converting only a small minority. I have been on the receiving end of this effort, often started very subtly, and once I realize it’s a campaign to get me to abandon Judaism, it is NOT appreciated.

Third, it would be tremendous work to go lien by line quoting actual OT verses, and other historical sources, so I’ve linked another article that shows where they are. I do want to point out that the verse in Isiah refers to Israel.

Fourth, the entire concept of Masiach is different than the Christian concept of Messiah. He is not a deity of course, but the word itself does not mean “savior” - it means anointed one.

Fifth, you were doing really well until the end, when you said “the truth is paramount.” To that I respond, “who’s truth”? The ones that Christians say? Or the ones that Jews say? To insist the Christian “truth” supercedes fhe truth taught by other religions is off-putting.

Finally, you made reference to people (Jews who follow Jewish teachings) whose “mind is made up,” but could that not apply to you as well, and other Christians, from the opposite side? You clearly have your mind made up that a man who lived 2000 years ago was a savior, and a deity.

In closing, i and other Jews do not go around trying to convince Christians of OUR truth. We recognize that different religions have different belief systems, and Gd is perfectly fine with that. That is why He will welcome all righteous and good people into the World to Come, regardless of their religion.

Mashiach: The Messiah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

Traditional Jewish concept of the messiah (mashiach): what he will be like, what he will do, what the messianic age will be like, and why Jews do not believe Jesus was the messiah.

www.jewfaq.org

When I said truth is paramount, I was talking about truth in general. I wasn't talking about any particular religion, or faith/religion per se. I was talking about the importance of truth above all things. You would agree with that, right? That was my only point in that statement, and I didn't want you to take that the wrong way, but it appears you did.

I don't believe there is "my truth", "your truth", "his truth", "her truth." Truth is objective, there is such a thing as a universal, objective truth. Of course there are different beliefs about what that objective truth is… But can we at least agree that an actual truth exists, and that is what is most important?

In response to the last thing you said...we'll have to agree to disagree that being "good" is what gets us to heaven. The bible is very clear that no one is good or righteous, we all have gone astray, and that is not just a Christian concept, it's in the OT as well, in a number of places. (for example Psalm 14:1-3) I'm not saying you disagree with that, but I think where we disagree is in what the solution is to that problem.

Someone else mentioned that the Jewish teaching is that we "atone through repentance, prayer and acts of charity." So this is where we would disagree. It takes more than just saying we're sorry… because the problem with that is our nature has not changed. And as the bible says, no human beings on their own are good, we literally have to become born from above. Spiritual birth. (which is actually the coolest thing ever when it happens, and it's not about religion... it's about new life!) There's much more to be said here, but I have to get going right now... so we can either agree to disagree, or I can try to get back to this later, if you do want to continue with this discussion.

 

[BS Filter]

When I said truth is paramount, I was talking about truth in general. I wasn't talking about any particular religion, or faith/religion per se. I was talking about the importance of truth above all things. You would agree with that, right? That was my only point in that statement, and I didn't want you to take that the wrong way, but it appears you did.

I don't believe there is "my truth", "your truth", "his truth", "her truth." Truth is objective, there is such a thing as a universal, objective truth. Of course there are different beliefs about what that objective truth is… But can we at least agree that an actual truth exists, and that is what is most important?

In response to the last thing you said...we'll have to agree to disagree that being "good" is what gets us to heaven. The bible is very clear that no one is good or righteous, we all have gone astray, and that is not just a Christian concept, it's in the OT as well, in a number of places. (for example Psalm 14:1-3) I'm not saying you disagree with that, but I think where we disagree is in what the solution is to that problem.

Someone else mentioned that the Jewish teaching is that we "atone through repentance, prayer and acts of charity." So this is where we would disagree. It takes more than just saying we're sorry… because the problem with that is our nature has not changed. And as the bible says, no human beings on their own are good, we literally have to become born from above. Spiritual birth. (which is actually the coolest thing ever when it happens, and it's not about religion... it's about new life!) There's much more to be said here, but I have to get going right now... so we can either agree to disagree, or I can try to get back to this later, if you do want to continue with this discussion.

Agree. There is no "true religion". The truth is Jesus. As Dylan said very well.."All the "truth" in the world adds up to one big lie". The world is full of religious philosophies, all leading to destruction. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Many believe that's just a religious quip.

 

[Clyde 154]

Both here and IRL, Christians feel quite comfortable telling Jews why they are wrong - and why Jesus was the Messiah. (It’s quite rude when Christians keeping arguing and warning Jews they will be damned, that G-d is angry with them, etc.), but they never are willing to hear why Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah.

It’s as if they only want to tell Jews (“you’re wrong, and I’ll tell you why) and never want to hear the reasons for the opposite - why Jews think Christians are wrong.

So I’ve written to Christians asking if they would be interested in hearing the Jewish perspective, and they never respond. So I’m asking now:

Are there any Christians here who would like to understand why Jesus is not the Messiah - from the Jewish perspective - or must we simply be silent about our opposite view?

Thank you.

Reason and Logic determines the answer to your question: Why do some Jews refuse to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Prophecy, the Son of the Living God?

Simple: Predetermined Irrationality void of an honest assessment of the evidence presented in the Holy Scriptures. This irrationality is much like the evidence of Jesus raising Lararus from the dead 4 day's after his recorded death (John 11).

The Jewish leaders of Jesus' day admitted that Jesus had worked many signs..i.e, miracles as proof of His deity (John 11:47)
How did the Jewish leaders act toward this miracle witnessed by many? Instead of accepting Jesus as the prophetic Messiah they reasoned together in order to put Lararus to death to hide these miraculous acts from the public (John 12:10-11).

Rather than admit their mistakes, still hiding behind their pride......they would rather sentence an innocent man to death.

The correct answer to the question? "There is no excuse.........., the Jews will be WITHOUT EXCUSE" on judgment day (Romans 1:20)

 

[BS Filter]

Reason and Logic determines the answer to your question: Why do some Jews refuse to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Prophecy, the Son of the Living God?

Simple: Predetermined Irrationality void of an honest assessment of the evidence presented in the Holy Scriptures. This irrationality is much like the evidence of Jesus raising Lararus from the dead 4 day's after his recorded death (John 11).

The Jewish leaders of Jesus' day admitted that Jesus had worked many signs..i.e, miracles as proof of His deity (John 11:47)
How did the Jewish leaders act toward this miracles witnessed by many? Instead of accepting Jesus as the prophetic Messiah they reasoned together in order to put Lararus to death in to hide these miraculous acts from the public (John 12:10-11).

Rather than admit their mistakes, still hiding behind their pride......they would rather sentence an innocent man to death.

They didn't understand that first the Messiah must die for their sins, then return to be their king. Jesus told them they search the Scriptures in error. The Apostle Paul got straightened out when Jesus appeared to him. There are many Jews who get it.

 

[Lisa558]

When I said truth is paramount, I was talking about truth in general. I wasn't talking about any particular religion, or faith/religion per se. I was talking about the importance of truth above all things. You would agree with that, right? That was my only point in that statement, and I didn't want you to take that the wrong way, but it appears you did.

I’m glad to hear you clarify this. I did indeed take it the wrong way, but in my defense, almost all Christians insist that THEIR belief is the truth. Just look at BS Filter who followed your post by saying ”Jesus is the truth.” He doesn’t understand that it is the truth to Christians, but not most people.

I don't believe there is "my truth", "your truth", "his truth", "her truth." Truth is objective, there is such a thing as a universal, objective truth. Of course there are different beliefs about what that objective truth is… But can we at least agree that an actual truth exists, and that is what is most important?

Yes, there is an actual truth.

In response to the last thing you said...we'll have to agree to disagree that being "good" is what gets us to heaven. The bible is very clear that no one is good or righteous, we all have gone astray, and that is not just a Christian concept, it's in the OT as well, in a number of places. (for example Psalm 14:1-3) I'm not saying you disagree with that, but I think where we disagree is in what the solution is to that problem.

That is where Judaism differs, and your Christianity is influencing your interpretation. We don’t think people are without flaws, or so not go astray. The difference is that one doesn’t have to be without shortcomings (or “sin”) to get into Heaven, which is what Christians think. That’s why you need a savior to take away your sins.

Judaism is different. We atone for our sins by 1) recognizing them of course, b) feeling remorse c) vowing not to repeat them, d) asking forgiveness of Gd or of the person we wronged, and e) making restitution in response to the damage we caused, which can be (among other things) making a contribution to a related charity.

Someone else mentioned that the Jewish teaching is that we "atone through repentance, prayer and acts of charity." So this is where we would disagree. It takes more than just saying we're sorry… because the problem with that is our nature has not changed. And as the bible says, no human beings on their own are good, we literally have to become born from above. Spiritual birth. (which is actually the coolest thing ever when it happens, and it's not about religion... it's about new life!) There's much more to be said here, but I have to get going right now... so we can either agree to disagree, or I can try to get back to this later, if you do want to continue with this discussion.

Just spoke about repentance above, and of course it’s about more than just say “I’m sorry,” as explained.

 

[Lisa558]

Reason and Logic determines the answer to your question: Why do some Jews refuse to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Prophecy, the Son of the Living God?

Simple: Predetermined Irrationality void of an honest assessment of the evidence presented in the Holy Scriptures. This irrationality is much like the evidence of Jesus raising Lararus from the dead 4 day's after his recorded death (John 11).

The Jewish leaders of Jesus' day admitted that Jesus had worked many signs..i.e, miracles as proof of His deity (John 11:47)
How did the Jewish leaders act toward this miracle witnessed by many? Instead of accepting Jesus as the prophetic Messiah they reasoned together in order to put Lararus to death to hide these miraculous acts from the public (John 12:10-11).

Rather than admit their mistakes, still hiding behind their pride......they would rather sentence an innocent man to death.

The correct answer to the question? "There is no excuse.........., the Jews will be WITHOUT EXCUSE" on judgment day (Romans 1:20)

What do you mean “why do some Jews refuse to accept Jesus”? Some?! Probably 95% of Jews stick with their Jewish teachings.

And you don’t have to quote the NT to me in which Jews are blamed, and how they won’t admit their mistakes, and how they’re irrational, etc., etc. We already know where your disdainful attitude toward Jews comes from.

 

[Lisa558]

They didn't understand that first the Messiah must die for their sins, then return to be their king. Jesus told them they search the Scriptures in error. The Apostle Paul got straightened out when Jesus appeared to him. There are many Jews who get it.

There are a small minority of Jews who have abandoned Judaism. As I explained, Jesus does not meet the parameters of the Messiah - not the least of which is that he would be a human being, not a deity.

Can‘t you just believe what you want, and let Jews believe what WE want? It really is disrespectful, to put it mildly, to talk about Jews as if 95% of us are idiots.

 

[BS Filter]

I’m glad to hear you clarify this. I did indeed take it the wrong way, but in my defense, almost all Christians insist that THEIR belief is the truth. Just look at BS Filter who followed your post by saying ”Jesus is the truth.” He doesn’t understand that it is the truth to Christians, but not most people.

Yes, there is an actual truth.

That is where Judaism differs, and your Christianity is influencing your interpretation. We don’t think people are without flaws, or so not go astray. The difference is that one doesn’t have to be without shortcomings (or “sin”) to get into Heaven, which is what Christians think. That’s why you need a savior to take away your sins.

Judaism is different. We atone for our sins by 1) recognizing them of course, b) feeling remorse c) vowing not to repeat them, d) asking forgiveness of Gd or of the person we wronged, and e) making restitution in response to the damage we caused, which can be (among other things) making a contribution to a related charity.



Just spoke about repentance above, and of course it’s about more than just say “I’m sorry,” as explained.

You can't atone for your sins.

 

[BS Filter]

There are a small minority of Jews who have abandoned Judaism. As I explained, Jesus does not meet the parameters of the Messiah - not the least of which is that he would be a human being, not a deity.

Can‘t you just believe what you want, and let Jews believe what WE want? It really is disrespectful, to put it mildly, to take about Jews as if 95% of us are idiots.

The first Christians were all Jews. There are many Christian Jews. I even know a Christian Rabbi. How about Bob Dylan. It's more common than you want to believe.

 

[Lisa558]

You can't atone for your sins.

Sure I can. My religion teaches how it is done.

YOUR religion says you can’t, and that’s why you have to have Jesus “save you.”

Two different religions.…two different concepts around atonement.

 

[Lisa558]

The first Christians were all Jews. There are many Christian Jews. I even know a Christian Rabbi. How about Bob Dylan. It's more common than you want to believe.

Those are fallen Jews. They are Jewish by virtue of their birth, but they have abandoned they key tenet of Judaism.

 

[BS Filter]

Sure I can. My religion teaches how it is done.

YOUR religion says you can’t, and that’s why you have to have Jesus “save you.”

Two different religions.…two different concepts around atonement.

Do you believe Leviticus? The atonement for sin was blood.

 

[BS Filter]

Those are fallen Jews. They are Jewish by virtue of their birth, but they have abandoned they key tenet of Judaism.

Everyone is fallen.

 

[Lisa558]

Do you believe Leviticus? The atonement for sin was blood.

We have modernized since then. I outlined what we need to do to atone for our sins.

Just have a little respect for other people’s religion, and let us be.

 

[Lisa558]

Everyone is fallen.

Again, Christian concept of Original Sin. Jews have ways to atone, live as good lives as they can, perform mitzvot, and have a share in The World To Come.

 

[BS Filter]

Again, Christian concept of Original Sin. Jews have ways to atone, live as good lives as they can, perform mitzvot, and have a share in The World To Come.

Works. So you don't believe the Torah and shedding of blood to cover sin.

 

[BS Filter]

We have modernized since then. I outlined what we need to do to atone for our sins.

Just have a little respect for other people’s religion, and let us be.

No one is forcing you to engage in this discussion.

 

[Lisa558]

Works. So you don't believe the Torah and shedding of blood to cover sin.

As I said, we have modernized to fit in with society. We don’t stone people to death either.

 

[Lisa558]

No one is forcing you to engage in this discussion.

When Christians insult my religion and lord it over me how they are superior, I feel compelled to defend Judaism from the naysayers.

And besides, it’s my thread. You want I should run away?

 

[BS Filter]

As I said, we have modernized to fit in with society. We don’t stone people to death either.

Do you know why you've modernized?