Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[BS Filter]

When Christians insult my religion and lord it over me how they are superior, I feel compelled to defend Judaism from the naysayers.

And besides, it’s my thread. You want I should run away?

I am not deliberately insulting your religion. We are discussing points of view. You can simply ignore me if you don't wish to discuss this.

 

[Lisa558]

Do you know why you've modernized?

To fit in with society and current mores, not that I have to justify anything to you.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus is a Jew. Scripture is clear.

provide any document by them they claim to be jewish ... it is reasonable to assume their birthright - its another matter during their three years of testimony to claim they prevailed during that time - as a jew. judaism is not a religion.

they most certainly did not die - as a jew and knew their destiny from the beginning. the church of the religion of antiquity what they and the others died for during that time to the 4th century.

 

[Lisa558]

I am not deliberately insulting your religion. We are discussing points of view. You can simply ignore me if you don't wish to discuss this.

Of course you’re insulting my religion. I just told you how Jews atone for our sins, and you swoop in from on high to tell me I CANNOT atone for them.

 

[BS Filter]

To fit in with society and current mores, not that I have to justify anything to you.

Jesus changed everything.

 

[BreezeWood]

Of course you’re insulting my religion. I just told you how Jews atone for our sins, and you swoop in from on high to tell me I CANNOT atone for them.

the basis of your beliefs, hereditary idolatry can not be heavenly atoned - good luck.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you believe Leviticus? The atonement for sin was blood.

Blood was one way to atone for sin, but was never the only way. The book of Jonah and the book of Esther verify that fasting and prayer were also means of atoning for sin.

What did require a blood sacrifice? A Covenant/Testament. Have Christians lost sight that Christ confirmed a New Covenant/Testament between God and mankind? His blood was shed for the redemption of the world. The Covenant:: Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus taught we were to turn from sin and turn to obedience to God for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus was not punished for our sins, he gave his life, his blood as a sign of the New Covenant/New Testament between God and mankind. God's part: His forgiveness. Our part: Turning from sin to obedience to God. Catholic and Orthodox admit/confess our sins, promise to do better, and reconcile with the person/people we are at odds with. (Remember, we are to leave our gift at the altar and reconcile with those who have something against us.)

Jesus gave his life so that all might be assured that upon repentance, our sins are forgiven. We are to make the amends we are capable of, and God will heal the hurt beyond our capabilities. This Protestant idea that punishment takes care of sin is frankly ridiculous. Think about it. If someone murders a person you love, becomes Christian, how much comfort, how much less pain will you have thinking, "Jesus took the punishment for this murder! No need for me to feel any sadness or loss. The punishment for that sin was already administered two thousand years ago!"

Jesus gave his life for a New Covenant, not to appease the Father by taking on punishment for all sins from the beginning of time throughout eternity. Jesus gave his life for something far greater than mere punishment.

 

[BS Filter]

Blood was one way to atone for sin, but was never the only way. The book of Jonah and the book of Esther verify that fasting and prayer were also means of atoning for sin.

What did require a blood sacrifice? A Covenant/Testament. Have Christians lost sight that Christ confirmed a New Covenant/Testament between God and mankind? His blood was shed for the redemption of the world. The Covenant:: Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus taught we were to turn from sin and turn to obedience to God for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus was not punished for our sins, he gave his life, his blood as a sign of the New Covenant/New Testament between God and mankind. God's part: His forgiveness. Our part: Turning from sin to obedience to God. Catholic and Orthodox admit/confess our sins, promise to do better, and reconcile with the person/people we are at odds with. (Remember, we are to leave our gift at the altar and reconcile with those who have something against us.)

Jesus gave his life so that all might be assured that upon repentance, our sins are forgiven. We are to make the amends we are capable of, and God will heal the hurt beyond our capabilities. This Protestant idea that punishment takes care of sin is frankly ridiculous. Think about it. If someone murders a person you love, becomes Christian, how much comfort, how much less pain will you have thinking, "Jesus took the punishment for this murder! No need for me to feel any sadness or loss. The punishment for that sin was already administered two thousand years ago!"

Jesus gave his life for a New Covenant, not to appease the Father by taking on punishment for all sins from the beginning of time throughout eternity. Jesus gave his life for something far greater than mere punishment.

Hebrews says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. I'm not familiar with any Scripture in Johah or Esther that fasting and prayer can cover sin.

 

[Lisa558]

Hebrews says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. I'm not familiar with any Scripture in Johah or Esther that fasting and prayer can cover sin.

No they don’t. I told you how we are instructed to atone for sin.

 

[BS Filter]

No they don’t. I told you how we are instructed to atone for sin.

Scripture is my authority. The book of Hebrews says "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin".

 

[Lisa558]

Scripture is my authority. The book of Hebrews says "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin".

For the third time, we’ve modernized that aspect as it is not legal in current times. I’ve outlined how we atone for sin, and I think it’s a bit arrogant of you to tell a Jew that she’s wrong about the Jewish way of atonement.

 

[BS Filter]

For the third time, we’ve modernized that aspect as it is not legal in current times. I’ve outlined how we atone for sin, and I think it’s a bit arrogant of you to tell a Jew that she’s wrong about the Jewish way of atonement.

I'm free to disagree with you. Jesus is a Jew and He disagreed with the religious Jews so they killed him. Please don't kill me. Just kidding.

 

[Lisa558]

I'm free to disagree with you. Jesus is a Jew and He disagreed with the religious Jews so they killed him. Please don't kill me. Just kidding.

Actually, Jews didn’t kill him. The Romans did. And besides, the vast majority of Jews at the time never even heard of him. He was a minor figure.

 

[Meriweather]

Hebrews says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. I'm not familiar with any Scripture in Johah or Esther that fasting and prayer can cover sin.

A study of the Book of Hebrews could well take up its own thread. Briefly: Note that Chapter 9 (to which I believe you are referencing?) begins by discussing not forgiveness of sins, but with discussing covenants. It references Leviticus where preparation for worship is made by a covering of blood (life) on the altar. All is now prepared for pure worship of God.

Christ's blood also purified our worship of God. While the Leviticus atonement was repeated yearly, Christ's one-time sacrifice opened our way of pure worship of God for all time. Christ's life blood was the purifying factor of our worship of God.

Just as in Leviticus blood was a purifying factor before worship, so is Christ's blood a purifying factor of Christian worship.

To return to this thread's proper Jewish theme, I will note it does well to clearly understand the purifying purpose (in worship of God) of the animal's blood in Leviticus so that we might have a better understanding of how and why prayers, fasting, and even studying God's Law, are considered as proper atonement sacrifices (along with reconciling the wrongs) in repentance (turning away) of sins and turning back to obedience to God and pure worship of Him.

(To Lisa and her fellow Jews: I know this is an awkward explanation, so I ask forgiveness in trying to explain Leviticus. Leviticus is not easy to understand, let alone explain.)

 

[BS Filter]

Actually, Jews didn’t kill him. The Romans did. And besides, the vast majority of Jews at the time never even heard of him. He was a minor figure.

Romans were the executioner. Jews sentenced Jesus to death. Read Scripture.

 

[BS Filter]

A study of the Book of Hebrews could well take up its own thread. Briefly: Note that Chapter 9 (to which I believe you are referencing?) begins by discussing not forgiveness of sins, but with discussing covenants. It references Leviticus where preparation for worship is made by a covering of blood (life) on the altar. All is now prepared for pure worship of God.

Christ's blood also purified our worship of God. While the Leviticus atonement was repeated yearly, Christ's one-time sacrifice opened our way of pure worship of God for all time. Christ's life blood was the purifying factor of our worship of God.

Just as in Leviticus blood was a purifying factor before worship, so is Christ's blood a purifying factor of Christian worship.

To return to this thread's proper Jewish theme, I will note it does well to clearly understand the purifying purpose (in worship of God) of the animal's blood in Leviticus so that we might have a better understanding of how and why prayers, fasting, and even studying God's Law, are considered as proper atonement sacrifices (along with reconciling the wrongs) in repentance (turning away) of sins and turning back to obedience to God and pure worship of Him.

(To Lisa and her fellow Jews: I know this is an awkward explanation, so I ask forgiveness in trying to explain Leviticus. Leviticus is not easy to understand, let alone explain.)

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.
Pretty clear.

 

[Lisa558]

Romans were the executioner. Jews sentenced Jesus to death. Read Scripture.

The NT is full of lies to make Jews look bad. We’re the children of Satan, dontya know, and go to the synagogue like hypocrites.

 

[Lisa558]

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.
Pretty clear.

Oh, stop it. Why do you enjoy telling Jews how Gd doesn’t forgive them when they atone for their sins? Maybe Gd doesn’t forgive YOU for refusing to atone for YOUR sins.

 

[Clyde 154]

They didn't understand that first the Messiah must die for their sins, then return to be their king. Jesus told them they search the Scriptures in error. The Apostle Paul got straightened out when Jesus appeared to him. There are many Jews who get it.

In Fact.........Jesus came to earth as the Son of God to save Biblical Israel first and foremost. Confirmation of the first gentile family to be offered salvation under the terms of the N.T. covenant did not take place until a decade after the death of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10).

As Paul stated......salvation was first offered to a faithful remnant of Jews loyal to the Word of God. Paul declared, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation........to everyone who believeth, to the Jew first." -- Romans 1:16

Jesus declared His mission was to the Jews first, in order to fulfill prophecy. Salvation would begin in "Jerusalem" -- Luke 24:47

The gentiles were adopted sons of Abraham....... in order to make the Jews jealous. -- Romans 11:11. Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, bond nor free.......all are one, once baptized into Christ, all become Sons of Abraham and heirs to the promise -- Gal. 3:28-29

(Romans 11:1-24). Paul stated that as far as the gospel of Christ was concerned the brotherhood should consider the orthodox Jew enemies of the gospel, but they sill should be respected because of the historical lineage that has brought us the Son of God and salvation.

Paul stated that it would be easy to graft the natural branch (the Jew) back unto the olive vine, all it requires is a belief/faith in the gospel of Christ. The Jew has not been cast away, as Paul presents himself of evidence to that fact ........Paul declared that God has reserved 7 thousand loyal Jews who have not bent a knee to Baal......just as in the O.T. prophecy, in Paul's time God has reserved a remnant of loyal Jews to be saved. (Roman 11:5) having been elected, not because of works but rather by the Grace of God.

If the Jews eyes of slumber are opened to the Gospel Truth.......it would be easy to graft them back unto the natural olive branch (Romans 11:24)

There is only one method to find a path that leads unto God. "I am the way, the truth, the light.........no one comes to the Father except through Me........" -- John 14:6

 

[Lisa558]

In Fact.........Jesus came to earth as the Son of God to save Biblical Israel first and foremost. Confirmation of the first gentile family to be offered salvation under the terms of the N.T. covenant did not take place until a decade after the death of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10).

As Paul stated......salvation was first offered to a faithful remnant of Jews loyal to the Word of God. Paul declared, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation........to everyone who believeth, to the Jew first." -- Romans 1:16

Jesus declared His mission was to the Jews first, in order to fulfill prophecy. Salvation would begin in "Jerusalem" -- Luke 24:47

The gentiles were adopted sons of Abraham....... in order to make the Jews jealous. -- Romans 11:11. Today there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, bond nor free.......all are one, once baptized into Christ, all become Sons of Abraham and heirs to the promise -- Gal. 3:28-29

(Romans 11:1-24). Paul stated that as far as the gospel of Christ was concerned the brotherhood should consider the orthodox Jew enemies of the gospel, but they sill should be respected because of the historical lineage that has brought us the Son of God and salvation.

Paul stated that it would be easy to graft the natural branch (the Jew) back unto the vine, all it requires is belief/faith in the gospel of Christ. The Jew has not been cast away, as Paul presents himself of evidence to that fact ........Paul declared that God has reserved 7 thousand loyal Jews who have not bent a knee to Baal......just as in the O.T. prophecy, in Paul's time God has reserved a remnant of loyal Jews to be saved. (Roman 11:5) having been elected, not because of works but rather by the Grace of God.

If the Jews eyes of slumber are opened to the Gospel Truth.......it would be easy to graft them back unto the natural olive branch (Romans 11:24)

There is only one method to find a path that leads unto God. "I am the way, the truth, the light.........no one comes to the Father except through Me........" -- John 14:6

More quotes from the antisemitic Gospel of John. Now I see where you people get your hatred for Jews.

Gd doesn’t like your type of attitude.