Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[Carl in Michigan]

If there is one thing all people of faith might agree on and not fight about is wouldn't it be nice to try life before expulsion from the Garden

You mean the short time when Man ate a plant based diet?

You mean the short period where Man KNEW God on a very personal level and actually OBEYED Him?
The time when they STOPPED working on the he 7th Day of the week to Honor Him and all His Creation?

Man won't enter the Sabbath Rest willingly.

Man will FIGHT Jesus Christ and the resurrected saints who will return WITH Christ to stand on the Mount of Olives.

I will be frank with you here. YOU DENY JESUS and so much of the Scriptures. Buttercup was right. You are of another religion -- one mostly fabricated in your own mind. You seem happy with that, and I'll leave it to Jesus to judge you at His return.

 

[Meriweather]

YOU DENY JESUS

Grin. He would be astonished to hear that. It's a good laugh for both he and me.

 

[buttercup]

You mean the short time when Man ate a plant based diet?

You mean the short period where Man KNEW God on a very personal level and actually OBEYED Him?
The time when they STOPPED working on the he 7th Day of the week to Honor Him and all His Creation?

Man won't enter the Sabbath Rest willingly.

Man will FIGHT Jesus Christ and the resurrected saints who will return WITH Christ to stand on the Mount of Olives.

I will be frank with you here. YOU DENY JESUS and so much of the Scriptures. Buttercup was right. You are of another religion -- one mostly fabricated in your own mind. You seem happy with that, and I'll leave it to Jesus to judge you at His return.

Wow, what you said in the first sentence ^ was EXACTLY what immediately came to my mind for me too, particularly when I read this line in her post "wouldn't it be nice to try life before expulsion from the Garden."

lol THANK YOU!!!

And the second thing I thought is: anyone who has truly put thought into what life was like before expulsion from the Garden, and who is sincere about getting back to that ideal and perfect bond with God would go plantbased... of course among other things, like you mentioned, having a personal relationship with God that is about love, trust and actually obeying God, since the scriptures are clear that those who love God will obey His commandments.

And to state that in the reverse:

"He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."​

- 1 John 2:4​

 

[buttercup]

wouldn't it be nice to try life before expulsion from the Garden.

I'm glad to hear you say that, that's what a few of us have been saying! So you're no longer paying others to exploit, abuse and needlessly slaughter animals, I take it? Because in the Garden of Eden, there were no slaughterhouses. God gave all of creation a plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30)

(I don't want to put you on the spot, but you gotta admit, you walked right into that one.)

My guess is that you'll somehow dismiss that scripture too, like you do with so many others, and make it into a fuzzy figure of speech or something like that, so that you can continue living life as you wish.

 

[rosends]

I'm glad to hear you say that, that's what a few of us have been saying! So you're no longer paying others to exploit, abuse and needlessly slaughter animals, I take it? Because in the Garden of Eden, there were no slaughterhouses. God gave all of creation a plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30)

(I don't want to put you on the spot, but you gotta admit, you walked right into that one.)

My guess is that you'll somehow dismiss that scripture too, like you do with so many others, and make it into a fuzzy figure of speech or something like that, so that you can continue living life as you wish.

In the garden man and woman were naked. Why are people so intent on returning to a vegetarian lifestyle and not, at the same time, nudism?

 

[buttercup]

In the garden man and woman were naked. Why are people so intent on returning to a vegetarian lifestyle and not, at the same time, nudism?

I don't go by just one scripture alone, I look at what the bible says in its entirety. In the New Testament, there are scriptures on modesty. And since we live in a fallen world, it would be absurd to walk around in public naked. So there's the answer to your question.

If you're going to say "the same can be said about eating meat" then I would wholeheartedly disagree. For numerous reasons. But if I were to go into all that, we'd be taking this thread off topic.

ETA: But since we are kinda on this topic... shameless plug:

 

[Meriweather]

I'm glad to hear you say that, that's what a few of us have been saying! So you're no longer paying others to exploit, abuse and needlessly slaughter animals, I take it? Because in the Garden of Eden, there were no slaughterhouses. God gave all of creation a plantbased diet. (Genesis 1:29-30)

The first thing that comes to mind about life in the Garden of Eden is diet? The main focus is the stomach?

Walking with God, being comfortable in the presence of God, learning to love as God loves, being present during creation, learning about life at His feet...the lion lying down with the lamb. That comes to mind as well.

 

[rosends]

I don't go by just one scripture alone, I look at what the bible says in its entirety. In the New Testament, there are scriptures on modesty. And since we live in a fallen world, it would be absurd to walk around in public naked. So there's the answer to your question.

If you're going to say "the same can be said about eating meat" then I would wholeheartedly disagree. For numerous reasons. But if I were to go into all that, we'd be taking this thread off topic.

ETA: But since we are kinda on this topic... shameless plug:

OK, I don't want to derail a thread, but if I did, I would point to Gen 9:3.

 

[Meriweather]

My guess is that you'll somehow dismiss that scripture too, like you do with so many others, and make it into a fuzzy figure of speech or something like that, so that you can continue living life as you wish.

As has been noted before, encompassing all of scripture instead of single cherry-picked verses presents a wider perspective instead of a narrow focus.

 

[onefour1]

The one thing that Adam and Eve lacked in the Garden of Eden was a knowledge of good and evil. Once Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit, God exclaimed:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Here we see that man begins to progress and to become more like God himself. I believe if God did not really want man to fall, he could not have placed the tree in the garden and could have placed Satan and his minions somewhere else beside earth. God knew way in advance that Adam and Eve would fall since he called a Savior before the foundation of the world. Therefore I believe it was part of the plan for mankind to fall and to become more like God by receiving a knowledge of good and evil. It was never God's plan to have Adam and Eve live eternally in a state of innocence not knowing good and evil. If God wanted to he could have taken Adam and Eve away after their fall and started all over with another couple who wouldn't partake of the forbidden fruit and thus all their posterity could have been born into the paradise of the Garden of Eden. But God's plan from the start was to allow mankind to fall and for this reason he called and ordained a Savior, Jesus Christ, before the foundation of the world. When man learns to choose good over evil and to follow the will of the Father of his own free will and choice, then will the earth be brought back into a more glorious state of existence and mankind will all live again in immortality through the resurrection of the dead.

 

[buttercup]

The first thing that comes to mind about life in the Garden of Eden is diet? The main focus is the stomach?

Walking with God, being comfortable in the presence of God, learning to love as God loves, being present during creation, learning about life at His feet...the lion lying down with the lamb. That comes to mind as well.

Nope, not the first thing that comes to my mind about life in the Garden. The first thing that came to my mind when reading YOUR post about life in the garden, but particularly when I read the last sentence, in post #1140.

You're also showing your misunderstanding by how you dismiss living God's ideal and intent with your words "diet" and "stomach."

No, it's not about diet and stomach, it's about showing LOVE, MERCY, KINDNESS and RESPECT to not just humans, but to the sentient beings that GOD loves and created, to live with us in peace and harmony, not a blood bath.

I'm glad you brought up "learning to love as God loves".... because if you truly want to do that, then that's yet another reason to live according to Genesis 1:29-30 and not pay someone to exploit, abuse and needlessly slaughter God's animals that HE created and HE loves.

If we sincerely want to love as God loves, then that means showing mercy, kindness, gentleness, peace and non-violence to the most innocent among us... because as it was in the Garden of Eden, and how it will be again one day according to the prophetic scriptures (read Isaiah 11:6-9) THAT is how God loves.

 

[Meriweather]

The one thing that Adam and Eve lacked in the Garden of Eden was a knowledge of good and evil. Once Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit,

There is a Jewish story that also explains mankind was to have the knowledge of Good and Evil...but that they ate of the fruit before it was ripe. For this reason, some Jews do not eat the fruit off a tree until it has produced fruit the second year.

 

[buttercup]

OK, I don't want to derail a thread, but if I did, I would point to Gen 9:3.

Just a few verses before that He stated "mankind's imagination is evil continually".... There are different interpretations of the verse you brought up, but at best what you have is, God giving mankind over to what our hardened selfish hearts want.... but that certainly doesn't mean it's what GOD wants.

In other words, God's perfect will and ideal > what God temporarily gives us over to in this fallen world.

That said, I gotta go. I have an appt and have to leave in 10 minutes.

 

[Meriweather]

You're also showing your misunderstanding by how you dismiss living God's ideal and intent with your words "diet" and "stomach."

Focus was on the spiritual life of mankind, not the physical. Nudity was also mentioned, which calls to mind Jesus' comments about the lilies of the field, and his noting that God is aware of what our bodies need.

People in Biblical times were yearning for a time when God, not an earthly ruler, managed the people. If it is your thought they wanted to go back to a time where they did not eat meat and went without clothes, I see no harm in you pursuing that. My own thought is that it appears people of Biblical times wanted the rule of God. Again, if this delights you because of the certainty no one will be eating meat or wear no clothes...so what. I see them picturing a just, merciful, loving society with a ruler they all adore.

It my understanding even with the advent of the Jewish Messiah, the prophecies noted that while there would be a long period of peace and prosperity, it would still eventually fail because human leadership fails--that it is God's coming to rule the Earth that will bring lasting peace and prosperity. That became known as The Day of the Lord.

 

[onefour1]

There is a Jewish story that also explains mankind was to have the knowledge of Good and Evil...but that they ate of the fruit before it was ripe. For this reason, some Jews do not eat the fruit off a tree until it has produced fruit the second year.

Interesting. So they think that if they ate it when it was ripe, they would not have suffered the fall?

 

[AsherN]

Interesting. So they think that if they ate it when it was ripe, they would not have suffered the fall?

There was no "fall". The fruit was a test of free will, and Man passed.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus prayed we might all be one.

... jesus believed in the religion of antiquity - nothing to pray for as that is the goal, to triumph - as required - for judgement and remission to paradise, for humanity - that religion ... for the individual there is not certainty if humanity as a whole were to fail if individuals that succeeded would be allowed to continue ... definitely not judaism.

simply that the choice jesus believed just is not in the c-bible ... and for those that gave their lives during that time. liberation theology, self determination.

 

[BreezeWood]

Man won't enter the Sabbath Rest willingly.

whatever that may mean - anyway, sabbath is a type of completion, somehow they claim pleasing for the creation of mankind.

since the scriptures are clear that those who love God will obey His commandments.

there are no heavenly commandments - simply stop sinning or look elsewhere - your concept - to obey - is absurd. servitude does not exist in the heavens.

 

[onefour1]

There was no "fall". The fruit was a test of free will, and Man passed.

So are you saying that certain Jews or all of them don't believe in the fall of Adam and Eve or is that just your opinion?

 

[rosends]

There is a Jewish story that also explains mankind was to have the knowledge of Good and Evil...but that they ate of the fruit before it was ripe. For this reason, some Jews do not eat the fruit off a tree until it has produced fruit the second year.

Can you show me a source for that story please?