CDZ Are Jews Sinners?

[JakeStarkey]

irosie is your purpose here to quarrel or to make a point?

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1053&context=eta by J Edwards - ‎1741
Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. A Sermon. Preached at Enfield, July 8th, 1741. Jonathan Edwards. Church of Christ in Northampton. Reiner Smolinski , ...

I doubt anyone here is going to consider you "irosie the Bible scholar"

 

[JoeMoma]

I ask this of Christians- and it is a sincere question- to you are Jews- and Muslims- sinners in your point of view?

Unlike Buddhists or other religions, Jews share the same Old Testament but reject Jesus Christ as their savior. Muslims also share the same Old Testament, and even believe Jesus to be a prophet, but also reject Jesus as their savior?

So does that make them sinners? Or to a Christian, are only Christians capable of being sinners?

Romans 3:23New International Version (NIV)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[hadit]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

EVERYONE is a sinner and needs forgiveness.

 

[hadit]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

 

[hadit]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

what does Jesus COMMAND in the New Testament?

Matthew 22
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

That's about as simple as it gets.

 

[irosie91]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

Rosie, Abraham was justified by faith not works. Yet Abraham obeyed God. Now when we receive Yeshua as Messiah we cannot say - oh bless God! I can now live anyway I want. I am saved by faith! No. Grace is not a license to sin. It is the grace of God that enables the Believer to crucify the flesh and not sin. If a Believer in Yeshua who is born again - should commit adultery and die. He will be in hell. If a Believer in Yeshua who is born again murders someone and does not confess it he shall be in hell - if a Born again Believer turns to the occult and seeks their astrology chart for their future - they shall be in hell. We are to obey the Commandments of God but the rituals which would be animal sacrifice, are no longer necessary because Christ is the lamb of God who has sacrificed for our sins once and for all - if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us - but we must obey the LORD. Jesus didn't come to do away with the commandments but to fulfill them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

what does Jesus COMMAND in the New Testament?

That you must be born again. If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ died on the cross and God raised him from the dead on the 3rd day - thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9,10. When Jesus said, It is finished he meant - it is finished. Receive the free gift of Salvation. If we reject so great a salvation what shall become of us?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

If 'not believing in Jesus as savior' the criteria, you should probably include atheists as "sinners".

IMO, most people do not sin.

 

[hadit]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

Why does it have to? It seems to me that you will move the goalposts every time your criteria is met.

 

[hadit]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

If 'not believing in Jesus as savior' the criteria, you should probably include atheists as "sinners".

IMO, most people do not sin.

Actually, they do, by Jesus' standards. What is sin to you?

 

[irosie91]

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

Why does it have to? It seems to me that you will move the goalposts every time your criteria is met.

you are being rude and evasive-----I asked a very simple question and never got an answer ------now you toss out cynical lie. The obvious answer is the one I know since I
actually read the book-----JESUS NEVER SAID IT-----paul came up with the idea

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

Here is the scriptures you are looking for - in the Book of Romans it reads:

But God commended his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

For if, when we were enemies, were were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, more more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Wherefore, as by one man sin did enter into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (FOR UNTIL THE LAW SIN WAS IN THE WORLD: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. NEVERTHELESS DEATH REIGNED FROM ADAM TO MOSES, EVEN OVER THEM THAT HAD NOT SINNED AFTER THE SIMILITUDE OF ADAM'S TRANSGRESSION, WHO IS THE FIGURE OF HIM THAT WAS TO COME. BUT NOT AS THE OFFENCE, SO ALSO IS THE FREE GIFT. FOR IF THROUGH THE OFFENCE OF ONE MANY BE DEAD, MUCH MORE THE GRACE OF GOD, AND THE GIFT BY GRACE, WHICH IS BY ONE MAN, JESUS CHRIST, HAS ABOUNDED MANY.
AND NOT AS IF IT WAS BY ONE THAT SINNED, SO IT IS THE GIFT: THE JUDGMENT WAS BY ONE TO CONDEMNATION, BUT THE FREE GIFT IS OF MANY OFFENCES UNTO JUSTIFICATION. FOR IF BY ONE MAN'S OFFENCE DEATH REIGNED BY ONE; MUCH MORE THEY WHICH RECEIVE ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND OF THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL REIGN IN LIFE BY ONE, JESUS CHRIST)

Therefore as the offence of one judgment come upon men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moverover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin did abound, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:5-21

And again it is written:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. To declare I say, at this time his righteousness, that he might be just, and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay. but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:28

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

Why does it have to? It seems to me that you will move the goalposts every time your criteria is met.

you are being rude and evasive-----I asked a very simple question and never got an answer ------now you toss out cynical lie. The obvious answer is the one I know since I
actually read the book-----JESUS NEVER SAID IT-----paul came up with the idea

Rosie, Paul was a Jew and what he taught was given him not by a man but by the LORD. When Moses came down from the mountain and gave the Hebrews the ten commandments. He received the ten commandments from God and he delivered God's Word to the people. People who did not want to obey God would say - who is Moses that we should listen to him. But they were not striving against Moses but against the LORD and judgment fell upon them. Because it was the LORD. From the beginning God has appointed men to deliver His Word. We cannot throw it out because it came from Paul (anymore than the people of Moses time should have rejected him for delivering God's message).

 

[irosie91]

thanks I understand----it is an interpretation

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

thanks I understand----it is an interpretation

Well, if we say Paul interpreted the Word of the LORD given him on God being the propitiaton through faith in his blood then would you also say Moses interpreted the Ten Commandments? I understand why you are asking for the specific words from Jesus Christ's own mouth, Rosie, but what you are missing is that the LORD whom Moses met on the mountain is the same LORD Paul met on the road to Damascus.

The question is given in Romans - What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much in every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed - the oracles of God. Romans 3:1,2 The Book of Romans is the Book for you, Rosie, as it has all the answers you are seeking.

 

[irosie91]

thanks I understand----it is an interpretation

Well, if we say Paul interpreted the Word of the LORD given him on God being the propitiaton through faith in his blood then would you also say Moses intrepreted the Ten Commandments? I understand why you are asking for the specific words from Jesus Christ's own mouth, Rosie, but what you are missing is that the LORD whom Moses met on the mountain is the same LORD Paul met on the road to Damascus.

The question is given in Romans - well then if God is now the God of the Gentiles and the Jews and the God over all then is there any benefit to being a Jew? Of course there is! The Jews were given the oracles of God! The Book of Romans is the Book for you to read as it has all the answers you are seeking.

Yes----I understand ---I did read it-----Paul wrote it based on his revelation

 

[hadit]

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

That is a quote attributed to Jesus. It meets the criteria of the OP.

where does the quotation say "you can forget about the details of law and ritual?

Why does it have to? It seems to me that you will move the goalposts every time your criteria is met.

you are being rude and evasive-----I asked a very simple question and never got an answer ------now you toss out cynical lie. The obvious answer is the one I know since I
actually read the book-----JESUS NEVER SAID IT-----paul came up with the idea

You asked the question and I answered it, showing you where Jesus did indeed say it. Tell you what, given that I have shown you where Jesus CLEARLY said if you believe in Him, you will have eternal life, show me where He said anything different for discussion. If you can't/won't, what I said stands.

 

[emilynghiem]

I ask this of Christians- and it is a sincere question- to you are Jews- and Muslims- sinners in your point of view?

Unlike Buddhists or other religions, Jews share the same Old Testament but reject Jesus Christ as their savior. Muslims also share the same Old Testament, and even believe Jesus to be a prophet, but also reject Jesus as their savior?

So does that make them sinners? Or to a Christian, are only Christians capable of being sinners?

Dear Syriusly all people are imperfect, so we all are sinners, either deliberately faulty or commit faults by omission.

The best way I can explain how Jesus is perfect and the rest of us aren't,
is that we are BIASED. We are all CONDITIONED to favor some people or groups
over others.

If you consider a sinful condition to be a bias that makes us not treat each other "perfectly equally" well of course. We are not perfectly neutral or equal in treating all people with the same care and respect. And this explains how "Karma" creates conditions and biases, as another way of explaining "Sinful" conditions. Everyone is under the influence of "karma" or "sin" from the past that conditions how we act in the present and future.

if Muslims and Hindus have been at war in the past, or Whites and Blacks,
this passes down biases to future generations who don't see each other as equals.
You can call this conditioning "karma" or "sin" but it means the same process.

Today our political parties and media have biased people to perceive each other as unequal.
We don't respect the beliefs of opponents equally as our own beliefs we work harder to defend.

So we are biased, unequal in how we treat or respect others in comparison to ourselves
and those we know and trust, and not perfectly inclusive and equal which God represents
as loving and including all people as equal children in one family.

As long as we treat one person or one group differently than we would our own self, group or associates of our beliefs,
that is imperfect.

Thus we sin by not loving treating and respecting all people equally, the people we know and people we don't.
The people we like or not. The people we agree with or not.

Nobody does that!

Thus we are all biased, imperfect, and treat some people better than others.
We are human and we are going to have biases. We are NOT perfectly just and equal,
and Jesus represents perfect justice and treating all people with equal love and inclusion.

Maybe together we can include all people, but by ourselves, we are going to favor our own.
So it takes ALL groups working together to include and represent all people "equally",
since by themselves, each group leaves others out. it takes all groups together to be "universal."

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The Holy Spirit just reminded me of the words Jesus spoke on the matter of eternal life and the *law of Moses. *Jesus had performed a miracle on the Sabbath

Jesus said this:

Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have eternal life. I receive not honor from men. But I know you that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye shall receive. How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God alone?

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For if ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:39-47

On that matter of the law, what to eat, drink, keeping of holy days, Sabbaths, new moons - after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. In Colossians 2:14,15 it is written:

Beware lest any man spoil you through vain deceit , after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power; in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you of all trespasses;

BLOTTING OUT THE ORDINANCES THAT WAS AGAINST US, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US, AND TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY NAILING IT TO THE CROSS; AND HAVING SPOILED PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS, HE MADE AN OPEN SHEW OF THEM OPENLY, TRIUMPHING OVER THEM ALL.

LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT, OR IN DRINK, OR IN RESPECT OF AN HOLYDAY, OR OF THE NEW MOON, OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS; WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, BUT THE BODY IS OF CHRIST.

COLOSSIANS 2:8-17

And again it is written:

WHEREFORE IF YE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST FROM THE RUDIMENTS OF THIS WORLD, WHY, AS THOUGH LIVING IN THE WORLD, ARE YE SUBJECT TO ORDINANCES, (TOUCH NOT, TASTE NOT, HANDLE NOT, WHICH ALL ARE TO PERISH WITH THE USING) AFTER THE COMMANDMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN? - Colossians 2:20-22

And finally -

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God. Set your affections on things above, not on things of the earth . For ye are dead, and your life is hid in Christ.
Colossians 3:1,2