Are "Poor" Women too stupid to avoid getting pregnant?

[gronked]

It’s a moot question; because that IS precisely your argument in favor of abortion. Whether in principle, or practice.

you refuse to answer the question because then you lose the argument. you are backed into a corner...

 

[gronked]

abortion is not reproductive healthcare. it does nothing at all to care for reproductive health.

17.4 births per 100,000 result in the mother dying. I would gladly give the pro-abortionists those 18 abortions/100,000 births if all other abortions were taken off the table. because other than when the life of the mother is at stake, all other abortions are ones of convenience.

 

[Vastator]

you refuse to answer the question because then you lose the argument. you are backed into a corner...

Are you retarded? My position is clear. No you shouldn’t be allowed to kill them because you deem them unviable, or unwanted. If they are unviable, that problem takes care of it’s self without outside interference. If you’re killing someone because you deem them unwanted, you’re a murderer.

 

[Sandisk]

So you are saying if a person has no brain activity they are not human? you realize that argument will never win in debate right?

on a side note, why are you using latin? you do understand what the term fetus means right?

1) my mistake.
I mean human's are not 'alive' if they have no brain activity.
And they certainly are NOT sentient.

2) I am not using latin.
I am using a word that was derived from latin.
And yes, I do know what it means.

Definition of FETUS

an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Sandisk]

shall we be allowed to kill "unwanted" people? or people who are not convenient?

That sounds dangerously like a strawman argument.
I said nothing about murder/killing.

I am saying that abortion should be legal before a fetus has reached sentience.
And no fetus can reach that stage without brain activity (at roughly 11 weeks).
However, I am strongly against abortions once sentience has been attained by the fetus.
I am not for 'murdering' anyone.

 

[22lcidw]

How 1950's of you.

Again, you are putting the blame on those who may have an issue with the way abortions are handled and not the people who are actually involved. Let's punish the men and women who question the process. That will teach them!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

ALL of the current hissy-fits about RvW PRESUME that women can get pregnant, (a) by accident, (b) without their knowledge, and/or (c) without their consent. And while one can imagine bizarre examples of these three phenomena, they are extremely rare.

They also ignore the moral/ethical aspect of abortion, to wit, it is possibly the taking of an innocent human life (after viability, remove the word, "possibly").

And yet, our kids who are lucky enough to attend American public schools learn about contraception in Kindergarten, and if not then, certainly before they are capable of getting pregnant.

Must one count the ways?

Refrain from reproductive activity (which has the added benefit of being without cost),
Take The Pill,
Use a mechanical obstructor.

As a final thought, what is the point of Planned Parenthood now? Women's reproductive health? What is that if not getting fixed when you want it?

Disturbing statistic: Black women, who comprise less than 7% of the population, are the recipients of more than 40% of the abortions. Is that simply a function of poverty, or are other factors involved? Inquiring minds want to know.

How about you work up the stones to answer your own question in your own thread....

 

[gronked]

Are you retarded? My position is clear. No you shouldn’t be allowed to kill them because you deem them unviable, or unwanted. If they are unviable, that problem takes care of it’s self without outside interference. If you’re killing someone because you deem them unwanted, you’re a murderer.

not the last time i checked.

so , you are saying that we cannot kill the preborn if they are unviable or unwanted. then that would remove all but the 18 of 100000 births where the mothers life is at risk? I would agree with that 100%

your position is not all that clear.

 

[Vastator]

not the last time i checked.

so , you are saying that we cannot kill the preborn if they are unviable or unwanted. then that would remove all but the 18 of 100000 births where the mothers life is at risk? I would agree with that 100%

your position is not all that clear.

It is clear. Your argument lies now on the farthest possible outlier. Which shows your desperation. Weren’t you talking about corners a few posts ago? Lol! Priceless. Self defense for the continuation of of one’s life is natural, in a kill or be killed scenario. Killing for comfort or advantage (especially amongst your closest in-group) demonstrates psychopathy that openly shows itself to be a threat to the members of said group.

 

[gronked]

1) my mistake.
I mean human's are not 'alive' if they have no brain activity.
And they certainly are NOT sentient.

2) I am not using latin.
I am using a word that was derived from latin.
And yes, I do know what it means.

Definition of FETUS

an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

If sentient is your litmus test for humanity, your thesis is weak. there are hundreds if not thousands of people on life support right now who are not sentient. those in comas, are, by definition, not sentient. those under general anesthesia are also not sentient. those with very late stage dementia and Alzheimers are also not sentient.

do you posit that those people groups are not human? if so, you are very much for murdering humans. If stage of development is your test, again, that is a weak argument. at conception, a 2 cell baby is human. the DNA is completely human, the genetic code is individual and specific for that person. the code is already there for eye color, height, hair color etc...

"responsive to or conscious of sense impressions"
"aware"
----merriam-webster

 

[Sandisk]

If sentient is your litmus test for humanity, your thesis is weak. there are hundreds if not thousands of people on life support right now who are not sentient. those in comas, are, by definition, not sentient. those under general anesthesia are also not sentient. those with very late stage dementia and Alzheimers are also not sentient.

Strawman
We are not talking about people in coma's.
We are talking about fetus's/unborn infants.
This is twice you have wasted my time with strawman bullshit.

do you posit that those people groups are not human? if so, you are very much for murdering humans. If stage of development is your test, again, that is a weak argument. at conception, a 2 cell baby is human. the DNA is completely human, the genetic code is individual and specific for that person. the code is already there for eye color, height, hair color etc...

"responsive to or conscious of sense impressions"
"aware"
----merriam-webster

We know for a fact that a child can be sentient and not in need of his/her mother at 21 weeks.

Alabama boy breaks world record as most premature infant to survive

Curtis Means, born at 21 weeks, spent 275 days in the hospital, where he was removed from a ventilator after three months and discharged in April.

nypost.com

So, any abortion after that is probably murder.

But it is flat out IMPOSSIBLE for a fetus to be sentient without brain activity.
Thus, abortions before then are acceptable.

I have stated my beliefs on this subject.
You don't agree?
Take a wild guess how much it matters to me?

We are done here.
Bye.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

ALL of the current hissy-fits about RvW PRESUME that women can get pregnant, (a) by accident, (b) without their knowledge, and/or (c) without their consent. And while one can imagine bizarre examples of these three phenomena, they are extremely rare.

They also ignore the moral/ethical aspect of abortion, to wit, it is possibly the taking of an innocent human life (after viability, remove the word, "possibly").

And yet, our kids who are lucky enough to attend American public schools learn about contraception in Kindergarten, and if not then, certainly before they are capable of getting pregnant.

Must one count the ways?

Refrain from reproductive activity (which has the added benefit of being without cost),
Take The Pill,
Use a mechanical obstructor.

As a final thought, what is the point of Planned Parenthood now? Women's reproductive health? What is that if not getting fixed when you want it?

Disturbing statistic: Black women, who comprise less than 7% of the population, are the recipients of more than 40% of the abortions. Is that simply a function of poverty, or are other factors involved? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you're a dem it seems the only alternative to popping out babies like a gumball machine is abortion and especially so if you are poor.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

By reading your posts, i assume you are an abortion supporter? If so, I wonder what the mental/emotional load of having an abortion would be?

I assume pro-choice advocates dont consider the unborn to be human as they are willing to destroy them. So, truthfully, if those assumptions are true, why is there any emotional/mental load in the decision at all? I mean, if abortion supporters actually did think the tiny little things they were killing were actual little humans that would make them monsters, no?

Don't assume anything, you'd be wrong

Abortions have been happening long before Roe v Wade, often with dangerous results. Legalizing it, made it safer for the woman. As with anything, there are those who take it too far, that now they are performed after birth.

Life does begin at conception and taking that life does carry the mental/emotional responsibility of doing so for many women. Yes there are alot of women who couldn't care less and use it as birth control and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. Nor should late term abortions.


The other side of that coin is the fact that sometimes shit happens. birth control methods didn't work or even forgotten, the guy was more forceful or even raped her, some women don't have regular cycles or others have been led to believe they are infertile, etc....there's a thousand reasons that a woman may choose abortion.....within the first trimester, if at all possible. Sometimes due to medical conditions of the mother, or health issues that happen during pregnancy to the mother and/or the baby even a first trimester procedure isn't possible.


My point has been that the responsibility for birth control to avoid unwanted pregnancy, or to have the child is just as much the man as it is the woman. It takes 2 to tango, and if you're going to tango you better be prepared for the consequences. Both parties need to provide birth control and if it doesn't work for whatever reason, they both need to decide how to move forward. Either THEY (both man & woman) raise the child, or THEY go to a clinic together........and if they can't or won't, they shouldn't be playing around

 

[frigidweirdo]

ALL of the current hissy-fits about RvW PRESUME that women can get pregnant, (a) by accident, (b) without their knowledge, and/or (c) without their consent. And while one can imagine bizarre examples of these three phenomena, they are extremely rare.

They also ignore the moral/ethical aspect of abortion, to wit, it is possibly the taking of an innocent human life (after viability, remove the word, "possibly").

And yet, our kids who are lucky enough to attend American public schools learn about contraception in Kindergarten, and if not then, certainly before they are capable of getting pregnant.

Must one count the ways?

Refrain from reproductive activity (which has the added benefit of being without cost),
Take The Pill,
Use a mechanical obstructor.

As a final thought, what is the point of Planned Parenthood now? Women's reproductive health? What is that if not getting fixed when you want it?

Disturbing statistic: Black women, who comprise less than 7% of the population, are the recipients of more than 40% of the abortions. Is that simply a function of poverty, or are other factors involved? Inquiring minds want to know.

The answer is probably "YES".

Lots of people are stupid. First question is "What is stupid?"

Stupid is when you make bad choices.

Lots of poor people are poor because they make bad choices. They have certain issues, like concentration problems, slow brains, things like that. They struggle to live life without getting angry, struggle to think ahead, struggle to do many things other people, richer people, more intelligent people, do on a daily basis.

 

[scruffy]

Should we punish women who are careless about contraception? Force them into 20 years of motherhood?

Motherhood is punishment?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

ALL of the current hissy-fits about RvW PRESUME that women can get pregnant, (a) by accident, (b) without their knowledge, and/or (c) without their consent. And while one can imagine bizarre examples of these three phenomena, they are extremely rare.

They also ignore the moral/ethical aspect of abortion, to wit, it is possibly the taking of an innocent human life (after viability, remove the word, "possibly").

And yet, our kids who are lucky enough to attend American public schools learn about contraception in Kindergarten, and if not then, certainly before they are capable of getting pregnant.

Must one count the ways?

Refrain from reproductive activity (which has the added benefit of being without cost),
Take The Pill,
Use a mechanical obstructor.

As a final thought, what is the point of Planned Parenthood now? Women's reproductive health? What is that if not getting fixed when you want it?

Disturbing statistic: Black women, who comprise less than 7% of the population, are the recipients of more than 40% of the abortions. Is that simply a function of poverty, or are other factors involved? Inquiring minds want to know.

These are the same people who can't figure out how to get a voter ID

 

[gronked]

Strawman
We are not talking about people in coma's.
We are talking about fetus's/unborn infants.
This is twice you have wasted my time with strawman bullshit.


We know for a fact that a child can be sentient and not in need of his/her mother at 21 weeks.

Alabama boy breaks world record as most premature infant to survive

Curtis Means, born at 21 weeks, spent 275 days in the hospital, where he was removed from a ventilator after three months and discharged in April.

nypost.com

So, any abortion after that is probably murder.

But it is flat out IMPOSSIBLE for a fetus to be sentient without brain activity.
Thus, abortions before then are acceptable.

I have stated my beliefs on this subject.
You don't agree?
Take a wild guess how much it matters to me?

We are done here.
Bye.

Incorrect. not a strawman, examples of human beings who are not sentient, and pertinent to the discussion at hand. ie, if one, why not another...

sentience is in no way a proof for humanness.

this is why the left is so terrified of losing the court decision. then it will have to come forward to public debate. they know with current science there is literally zero defense for abortion, with the lone exception of the case of mothers life at stake.

 

[22lcidw]

If you know where babies are being murdered, get off your fat lazy ass and do something about it. Have you called 911?

We have people who were standing outside the Capitol building on Jan. 6 being branded and treated like terrorists. And this is the real evil. When I see Brandon, there is nothing but a total fraud and corrupted lying scumbag that has helped to shape and destroy a nation in a half century. But he became rich on it and that is important. Progs will not be forgiven for this economy.

 

[August West]

We have people who were standing outside the Capitol building on Jan. 6 being branded and treated like terrorists. And this is the real evil. When I see Brandon, there is nothing but a total fraud and corrupted lying scumbag that has helped to shape and destroy a nation in a half century. But he became rich on it and that is important. Progs will not be forgiven for this economy.

When I see "Brandon" in a post I know that the post was made by a mentally ill person. Grow the fuck up or seek the help you need.

 

[gronked]

Don't assume anything, you'd be wrong

Abortions have been happening long before Roe v Wade, often with dangerous results. Legalizing it, made it safer for the woman. As with anything, there are those who take it too far, that now they are performed after birth.

Life does begin at conception and taking that life does carry the mental/emotional responsibility of doing so for many women. Yes there are alot of women who couldn't care less and use it as birth control and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. Nor should late term abortions.


The other side of that coin is the fact that sometimes shit happens. birth control methods didn't work or even forgotten, the guy was more forceful or even raped her, some women don't have regular cycles or others have been led to believe they are infertile, etc....there's a thousand reasons that a woman may choose abortion.....within the first trimester, if at all possible. Sometimes due to medical conditions of the mother, or health issues that happen during pregnancy to the mother and/or the baby even a first trimester procedure isn't possible.


My point has been that the responsibility for birth control to avoid unwanted pregnancy, or to have the child is just as much the man as it is the woman. It takes 2 to tango, and if you're going to tango you better be prepared for the consequences. Both parties need to provide birth control and if it doesn't work for whatever reason, they both need to decide how to move forward. Either THEY (both man & woman) raise the child, or THEY go to a clinic together........and if they can't or won't, they shouldn't be playing around

You write that life begins at conception. I would agree completely. The science would agree as well.

I would disagree that abortions often have dangerous results. I would say they always result in dangerous outcomes for the pre-born. If one agrees that life begins at conception, abortion would equate to murder. The pre-meditated killing of another human.

other than the extremely rare occurrence of the mother's life or the child, I can see the justification for the pro-choice argument. otherwise, it is a choice of convenience.