Are you actually pro-life?

[Damaged Eagle]

It must be very convenient to be able to say you're anti-war with the current president being the blood-soaked Nobel Champion Of Peace who can murder over 25,000 people in six months in a country we weren't at war with, namely Libya, without Congressional Approval or a declaration of war..... Perhaps if Hillary gets in office she can beat him on the body count, without Congressional approval or a declaration of war, and get her Nobel Prize too.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Most "pro-life" people probably supported Bush's war in Iraq. How many people died? We don't know, could be 1 million for all we know.

Shall we take a close look at which congressmen/women were on the Committee Of Armed Services and Subcommittees for that department during the start of those war years and were responsible for giving the acting President (Bush) accurate information?

*****SMILE*****

Do you know anything about intelligence at all?

The Senate Report on Iraqi WMD Intelligence showed us that Bush essentially got the CIA to go make stuff up so he could present it. He wouldn't have to prove his intelligence, it was classified, so he could say what he liked as long as it couldn't be proven wrong.

"Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Community’s October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting. A series of failures, particularly in analytic trade craft, led to the mischaracterization of the intelligence"

There was a guy, called "Curveball", an Iraqi defector. It might have been a guy who worked for the Iraqi nuclear weapons program BEFORE 1991. Yet they took everything he said as meaning present conditions even though the guy defected from Iraq after the Gulf War in 1991.
"Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say. The Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curve Ball knows what he's talking about."

The powers that be, people like Bush, for example, didn't care whether what he said was true or not, they cared that it could be useful to "prove" that Iraq had WMDs.

"Powell said that "every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we’re giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence." Despite this, the Committee concluded that "[m]uch of the information provided or cleared by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for inclusion in Secretary Powell’s speech was overstated, misleading, or incorrect.""

Basically the CIA did what they were told and "found" the information necessary for Bush to be able to do what he liked. The truth was not important.

The CIA is not from any party. At the time the director, George Tenant, was a Democrat, however Bush was basically offering him a situation to expand the CIA. For agents within the CIA this would have been very appealing. "Hey, guys, work with us and we'll expand, your chances of promotion are higher, chances of being fired lower", so they did what Bush wanted.

You can go read the documents from the Senate if you like.

I'm more than willing to let this go to the war trials that you progressives so adamantly demand. However... If Bush can prove that he was presented misinformation and is acquitted then let the treason trials begin. I want to know who was feeding the misinformation and I want the death sentence for those involved.

*****SMILE*****

The Senate has PROVEN that the CIA gave information to Bush so Bush could carry out what it wanted. The US isn't going to let anyone go to war crimes tribunals, it's never going to happen.

The evidence is there, go read the document.

The only thing you don't have, and won't find, is the link that Bush, or his henchmen, ordered the CIA to do this. Why? Because they're not stupid enough to write this stuff down. This was done on the hush.

So what you're really saying is that you have nothing to prove that Bush guilty of anything and that it was the CIA. Sounds to me like a case of treason by people inside the CIA giving false information to the White House.

I on the hand have proof that the current acting president did commit war crimes against a sovereign nation (Libya) that we were not at war with, without Congressional approval or the approval of the people of the United States, and did knowingly murder over 25,000 people..... Can you say WAR CRIMINAL?

*****SMILE*****

 

[hipeter924]

I am against:
- Executions
- Involuntary euthanasia
- Involuntary abortion
- Abortions in a world of plenty (which we don't have)
- Eugenics
- Genetic Engineering 'super soldiers', who are then forced to fight.
- Suicide
- Murder
- Genocide

In all those ways I am 'pro-life', but you won't have me joining hands with groups that think 'banning abortion' is any kind of solution to children being born into broken homes, to children having bad parents, or children being born into appalling economic conditions. Which is what 'pro-life' groups seem to forget when they fight against contraception and abortion procedures, that their 'concern' for welfare of children is purely skin-deep/soul-deep.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Pro-life is a funny one. There are too many humans on the planet. What life are we pro? Pro-all life? Pro-human life? Does having way too many people and polluting the planet and causing mayhem wherever we live with crime because we can't all live together in such a big space mean this is "pro-life"?

Is having too many people we end up at war "pro-life"?

 

[frigidweirdo]

So what you're really saying is that you have nothing to prove that Bush guilty of anything and that it was the CIA. Sounds to me like a case of treason by people inside the CIA giving false information to the White House.

I on the hand have proof that the current acting president did commit war crimes against a sovereign nation (Libya) that we were not at war with, without Congressional approval or the approval of the people of the United States, and did knowingly murder over 25,000 people..... Can you say WAR CRIMINAL?

*****SMILE*****

Who runs the CIA? Oh, wait, the CIA director who has a boss. Who is the boss of the CIA director? The US govt.

Why would the CIA give false information to the govt, when the govt WANTED this information?

I could say war criminal for Obama too. He was stupid to go to Libya, just as Bush was stupid to go to Iraq.

Iraq was as illegal as Libya.

 

[hipeter924]

Pro-life is a funny one. There are too many humans on the planet. What life are we pro? Pro-all life? Pro-human life? Does having way too many people and polluting the planet and causing mayhem wherever we live with crime because we can't all live together in such a big space mean this is "pro-life"?

Is having too many people we end up at war "pro-life"?

Many 'pro-lifers' are in it to 'get souls for Jesus' and vice versa, what happens after the children are born into a trailer park, to a drunken father, and drugged up mother, doesn't really matter to them.

So long as the children have a chance to 'find Jesus' and join god's holy kingdom after death, or 'live a life like ours'.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Who runs the CIA? Oh, wait, the CIA director who has a boss. Who is the boss of the CIA director? The US govt.

Why would the CIA give false information to the govt, when the govt WANTED this information?

I could say war criminal for Obama too. He was stupid to go to Libya, just as Bush was stupid to go to Iraq.

Iraq was as illegal as Libya.

You've already said you can't prove that the White House ordered any such information so the falsified information originated in the CIA. Therefore whoever in the CIA supplied the information is a traitor. Who did you say was that Democrat was in the CIA at that time? If you want to make a case about stupidity it would have to be the people in the CIA during Bush's years and Obama himself for letting his a$$ hang out there for all to see...... If... And I mean IF Bush had anything to do with the misinformation then I'd say your argument obviously proves Bush was a pretty smart cookie. After all you can't prove that Bush knowingly did so.

Looks like Obama and the CIA are pretty stupid.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Unkotare]

Pro-life is a funny one. There are too many humans on the planet. What life are we pro? Pro-all life? Pro-human life? Does having way too many people and polluting the planet and causing mayhem wherever we live with crime because we can't all live together in such a big space mean this is "pro-life"?

Is having too many people we end up at war "pro-life"?

Many 'pro-lifers' are in it to 'get souls for Jesus' and vice versa, what happens after the children are born into a trailer park, to a drunken father, and drugged up mother, doesn't really matter to them.

So long as the children have a chance to 'find Jesus' and join god's holy kingdom after death, or 'live a life like ours'.

Empty, partisan bullshit.

 

[Unkotare]

There are too many humans on the planet.

No, there are not.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Who runs the CIA? Oh, wait, the CIA director who has a boss. Who is the boss of the CIA director? The US govt.

Why would the CIA give false information to the govt, when the govt WANTED this information?

I could say war criminal for Obama too. He was stupid to go to Libya, just as Bush was stupid to go to Iraq.

Iraq was as illegal as Libya.

You've already said you can't prove that the White House ordered any such information so the falsified information originated in the CIA. Therefore whoever in the CIA supplied the information is a traitor. Who did you say was that Democrat was in the CIA at that time? If you want to make a case about stupidity it would have to be the people in the CIA during Bush's years and Obama himself for letting his a$$ hang out there for all to see...... If... And I mean IF Bush had anything to do with the misinformation then I'd say your argument obviously proves Bush was a pretty smart cookie. After all you can't prove that Bush knowingly did so.

Looks like Obama and the CIA are pretty stupid.

*****SMILE*****

No. You're making the assumption that because i can prove something, that it didn't happen.

But then if I can't prove someone in the CIA ordered it either, then what? Does that mean that no one ordered it? No it doesn't.

Was Bush smart? He's not stupid. However he's not that smart. Also, he probably didn't order it, someone within his govt probably ordered it, most likely Cheney.

But it's not that hard to get something done without leaving a trail. I mean, kids could do it.

 

[Unkotare]

Was Bush smart? He's not stupid. However he's not that smart. Also, he probably didn't order it, someone within his govt probably ordered it, most likely Cheney....

That kind of pointless, juvenile nonsense belongs on the conspiracy forum.

 

[jon_berzerk]

It's sickening seeing how many people use this label without knowing what it means. It's not just anti-abortion. Protecting children from the pro-abort crowd is just one facet. A true pro-life position is also:

anti-execution
pro-reform
anti-euthanasia
pro-healthcare
anti-poverty
pro-welfare
anti-war
pro-internationalism
anti-inequality
pro-immigrant
anti-sexist
pro-family
anti-racist
pro-social harmony

These aren't just words. They aren't labels. They are hard and fast positions. To call oneself pro-life and demand someone's death is a blunt contradiction. Claim to promote peace and hawk for war and you're simply the worst sort of hypocrite. Say you care about children and then leave them to starve in the streets or send them back to grow up in a war zone and you're no better than the baby butchers than whom you pretend to be any different.

Whoa there buckaroo!

You can be pro charity but not for govt welfare that rewards enabling behavior!

You are not distinguishing the POLITICAL/LEGAL label from the reality of what people support.

I can be for education but against what public schools are doing wrong to mess it up.

I can be FOR national defense but against abuse of military for unjustified war and war crimes.

I can even be AGAINST abortion and 100% for preventing it in 100% of all cases,
and yet Legally support pro choice where any laws are passed by free choice and consensus
since I find that more constitutional.

I can be AGAINST execution and 100% for preventing 100% of murders and 100% of executions
but legally support keeping the OPTION of execution legal on the books to use as leverage
in compelling people to work with authorities on resolving crimes and deciding a plan for restitution.

Just because you are LEGALLY for the choice of abortion, war, executions, etc.
doesn't mean you can't be 100% against these things. making them legal or illegal is a separate
level from the real work it takes to prevent them in practice! Sometimes keeping them legal
takes political pressure off so groups can work together to PREVENT more cases of what you are so against!

government welfare is not charity

ER..yes, it is.

no it isnt

welfare and charity are two different things

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I am against:
- Executions
- Involuntary euthanasia
- Involuntary abortion
- Abortions in a world of plenty (which we don't have)
- Eugenics
- Genetic Engineering 'super soldiers', who are then forced to fight.
- Suicide
- Murder
- Genocide

In all those ways I am 'pro-life', but you won't have me joining hands with groups that think 'banning abortion' is any kind of solution to children being born into broken homes, to children having bad parents, or children being born into appalling economic conditions. Which is what 'pro-life' groups seem to forget when they fight against contraception and abortion procedures, that their 'concern' for welfare of children is purely skin-deep/soul-deep.

The problem is that they've already been conceived into broken homes. You can't just kill them for that. Unless you would have just as casually killed me for the same reason? What we should be doing is getting them the fuck out of there and with the nice gay couple down the street that's always wanted to raise a child together. In the longer term we need to be working to reverse the liberal bullshit of the past sixty years and unfuck our culture.

Pro-life is a funny one. There are too many humans on the planet.

Malthus was wrong. His disciples are proven wrong soon after they open their mouths.

What life are we pro? Pro-all life? Pro-human life?

Yes to both.

Does having way too many people and polluting the planet and causing mayhem wherever we live with crime because we can't all live together in such a big space mean this is "pro-life"?

So just kill people to make be more room for yourself?

Is having too many people we end up at war "pro-life"?

I can think of a war that started primarily because this exact idea was so popular that enough people with power tried to act on it all at once.

Many 'pro-lifers' are in it to 'get souls for Jesus' and vice versa, what happens after the children are born into a trailer park, to a drunken father, and drugged up mother, doesn't really matter to them.

So long as the children have a chance to 'find Jesus' and join god's holy kingdom after death, or 'live a life like ours'.

Calling out people like this was the entire point of the OP. I agree with you about them. They aren't pro-life. They really are pro-birth. Their use of our label is unjustified and I would very much like them to stop pretending to be what they clearly aren't.

 

[Mac1958]

It's sickening seeing how many people use this label without knowing what it means. It's not just anti-abortion. Protecting children from the pro-abort crowd is just one facet. A true pro-life position is also:

anti-execution
pro-reform
anti-euthanasia
pro-healthcare
anti-poverty
pro-welfare
anti-war
pro-internationalism
anti-inequality
pro-immigrant
anti-sexist
pro-family
anti-racist
pro-social harmony

These aren't just words. They aren't labels. They are hard and fast positions. To call oneself pro-life and demand someone's death is a blunt contradiction. Claim to promote peace and hawk for war and you're simply the worst sort of hypocrite. Say you care about children and then leave them to starve in the streets or send them back to grow up in a war zone and you're no better than the baby butchers than whom you pretend to be any different.

You're making your own definitions.

That's like a pro-lifer creating their own definition of pro-choice and expecting you to adhere to their definition.

.

 

[koshergrl]

ER..yes, it is.

There's a family of four in the Florida panhandle. He works at a meat packing plant. She's a housekeeper. They have a daughter of six and a son of eight months. Together they can just barely afford an apartment and the bare basics. Or they could until last week anyway. He slipped and fucked his back up. He can't work for six months. Now they have a hospital bill they can't afford on top of all the normal bills they suddenly can't pay either. They've been fighting about whether to pay the utilities or lights ever since. You don't know this couple. You can help them. Can you look at them and walk away?

Why would I?

 

[koshergrl]

ER..yes, it is.

There's a family of four in the Florida panhandle. He works at a meat packing plant. She's a housekeeper. They have a daughter of six and a son of eight months. Together they can just barely afford an apartment and the bare basics. Or they could until last week anyway. He slipped and fucked his back up. He can't work for six months. Now they have a hospital bill they can't afford on top of all the normal bills they suddenly can't pay either. They've been fighting about whether to pay the utilities or lights ever since. You don't know this couple. You can help them. Can you look at them and walk away?

Why would I?

And what on God's green earth does helping them with their heating bill have to do with abortion??? Ps...the church helps out ppl in this situation ALL THE TIME.

 

[koshergrl]

It's sickening seeing how many people use this label without knowing what it means. It's not just anti-abortion. Protecting children from the pro-abort crowd is just one facet. A true pro-life position is also:

anti-execution
pro-reform
anti-euthanasia
pro-healthcare
anti-poverty
pro-welfare
anti-war
pro-internationalism
anti-inequality
pro-immigrant
anti-sexist
pro-family
anti-racist
pro-social harmony

These aren't just words. They aren't labels. They are hard and fast positions. To call oneself pro-life and demand someone's death is a blunt contradiction. Claim to promote peace and hawk for war and you're simply the worst sort of hypocrite. Say you care about children and then leave them to starve in the streets or send them back to grow up in a war zone and you're no better than the baby butchers than whom you pretend to be any different.

You're making your own definitions.

That's like a pro-lifer creating their own definition of pro-choice and expecting you to adhere to their definition.

.

This is what totalitarians and baby killers do. They change the meanings of words (life, human, murder) to make their murderous, human rights violating policies palatable. The nazis and communists do the same thing.

 

[koshergrl]

It's sickening seeing how many people use this label without knowing what it means. It's not just anti-abortion. Protecting children from the pro-abort crowd is just one facet. A true pro-life position is also:

anti-execution
pro-reform
anti-euthanasia
pro-healthcare
anti-poverty
pro-welfare
anti-war
pro-internationalism
anti-inequality
pro-immigrant
anti-sexist
pro-family
anti-racist
pro-social harmony

These aren't just words. They aren't labels. They are hard and fast positions. To call oneself pro-life and demand someone's death is a blunt contradiction. Claim to promote peace and hawk for war and you're simply the worst sort of hypocrite. Say you care about children and then leave them to starve in the streets or send them back to grow up in a war zone and you're no better than the baby butchers than whom you pretend to be any different.

Whoa there buckaroo!

You can be pro charity but not for govt welfare that rewards enabling behavior!

You are not distinguishing the POLITICAL/LEGAL label from the reality of what people support.

I can be for education but against what public schools are doing wrong to mess it up.

I can be FOR national defense but against abuse of military for unjustified war and war crimes.

I can even be AGAINST abortion and 100% for preventing it in 100% of all cases,
and yet Legally support pro choice where any laws are passed by free choice and consensus
since I find that more constitutional.

I can be AGAINST execution and 100% for preventing 100% of murders and 100% of executions
but legally support keeping the OPTION of execution legal on the books to use as leverage
in compelling people to work with authorities on resolving crimes and deciding a plan for restitution.

Just because you are LEGALLY for the choice of abortion, war, executions, etc.
doesn't mean you can't be 100% against these things. making them legal or illegal is a separate
level from the real work it takes to prevent them in practice! Sometimes keeping them legal
takes political pressure off so groups can work together to PREVENT more cases of what you are so against!

government welfare is not charity

ER..yes, it is.

no it isnt

welfare and charity are two different things

from the perspective of the takers, it's charity.

 

[Moonglow]

ER..yes, it is.

There's a family of four in the Florida panhandle. He works at a meat packing plant. She's a housekeeper. They have a daughter of six and a son of eight months. Together they can just barely afford an apartment and the bare basics. Or they could until last week anyway. He slipped and fucked his back up. He can't work for six months. Now they have a hospital bill they can't afford on top of all the normal bills they suddenly can't pay either. They've been fighting about whether to pay the utilities or lights ever since. You don't know this couple. You can help them. Can you look at them and walk away?

Why would I?

And what on God's green earth does helping them with their heating bill have to do with abortion??? Ps...the church helps out ppl in this situation ALL THE TIME.

None of the Churches in my county do it, they don't even have food pantries...

 

[defcon4]

You are a Russian hack. There are some unmistakable signs positively indicating the fact.

Nope. I'm an Alabamian born and bred. My recent ancestors illegally immigrated here after the Russian Commie scum took over Poland.

1/ "Alabamian born and bred" >>> we say "born and raised" and not "born and bred"
2/ "My recent ancestors" >>>There is no such thing. The word "recent" is used, even in Alabama as a reference to and event, or time in the near past, not to ancestry. We say simply "my ancestors" or "my grandparents" etc…if we want to narrow down ancestry.
3/ "Illigally immigrated">>> Refugees from the Eastern Block were received by countries from the refugee camps in near Vienna, Austria and Capua, Italy. Those two were the main "distribution centers" It was almost impossible to enter the USA illegally from an Eastern Block country in the 1950-ies. It is a lie.
4/ "Russian Commie scum took over Poland" >>>Verify the year when your "recent ancestors" left Poland.

If someone isn't making an effort to improve the lives of their brothers and sisters then they haven't earned the right to call themselves that.

We use the term "neighbors," "less fortunate," "needy" in reference to helping others. Referring to strangers within our country we do not say "brothers and sisters."
Anyhoo, your thought process is alien to the American thought process. It is easy to detect it. Go cuddle up with some babushka, play your accordion or balalaika, drink your Stolichnaya and have a good time instead of meddling with American domestic issues.

 

[defcon4]

ER..yes, it is.

There's a family of four in the Florida panhandle. He works at a meat packing plant. She's a housekeeper. They have a daughter of six and a son of eight months. Together they can just barely afford an apartment and the bare basics. Or they could until last week anyway. He slipped and fucked his back up. He can't work for six months. Now they have a hospital bill they can't afford on top of all the normal bills they suddenly can't pay either. They've been fighting about whether to pay the utilities or lights ever since. You don't know this couple. You can help them. Can you look at them and walk away?

Why would I?

And what on God's green earth does helping them with their heating bill have to do with abortion??? Ps...the church helps out ppl in this situation ALL THE TIME.

None of the Churches in my county do it, they don't even have food pantries...

It is the same everywhere. That is the problem. That's how government moved into the empty space…