Are you being brainwashed - former exec whistlerblower

[DiveCon]

Its amazing how this follows the formula.

Any opposition to Obama is disingenious, planned, untrue, controlled by big corporations and disiminated by FOX news and Rush limbaugh. It's NEVER grass roots or sincere.

Its time to change that tune, people aern't buying it.

The part of the grassroots movement that are protesting are nutjob people who have issues that don't even revolve around health care. Listen to what they are complaining about.

And I'm sorry, but people just don't come up with random lies about legislation, and then get them into all of the media outlets, and then go protest about lies. Think Mcfly...

It would be different if they had a FACTUAL argument that they were against... or something that was debatable.

I'll give you an example of one that would be acceptable, and would be a good REAL argument to have. EX: The proposed health care bill will increase spending and sink us into larger deficits than if we do nothing.

BTW, 'Media Matters' was created by Hillary Clinton and funded by George Soros with the expess purpose of postive spin propaganda for left causes and constant attack on percived right wing media outlets.

I have countless PROVABLE beyond a shadow of a doubt where numerous right-wing media have out right lied to their audience. I'll take one that you can give me from media matters... google away kid.

I'll help you out:
Media matter lies: media matters lies - Google Search


Fox news lies: fox news lies - Google Search


Rush Limbaugh lies: Rush Limbaugh lies - Google Search


Sean Hannity lies: sean hannity lies - Google Search

Bill OReily lies: bill o'reilly lies - Google Search


Check them out... let me know what you find.

of course you will get more hits on the last few
you morons keep posting about it when in fact its YOU thats doing the lying

 

[Xenophon]

The part of the grassroots movement that are protesting are nutjob people who have issues that don't even revolve around health care. Listen to what they are complaining about.

I'm one of them, and I am not protesting 'other issues.'

The net is filled with example of 'Media Matters' bullshitting and distorting, for example:

media matters lies - Google Search

Amazingly, an organization designed to distort, and you claim they are truthful!

You are being used, wake the fuck up and start thinking for yourself.

 

[Oddball]

What makes my sources for news and information germane to the fact that Media Matters is a well known leftist hack site?

What would you say to the person who sourced World Nut Daily as "proof" that the mainstream media is merely a propaganda arm of the DNC??

I'll rephrase the question, perhaps it was too difficult to understand.

Show me an example of where media matters lied or mis-informed it's audience (either intentionally or un-intentionally.

All you are doing is regurgitating what people have told you to think until you can do otherwise.

And I would say to that person, use your own mind. You don't need people to tell you what to think. It's a simple argument to prove that the main stream media leans heavily to the right. There's no logical argument for it to be liberal. I've gone over this argument several times on here now. Never heard a rational argument from the brainwashed right yet.

George Soros, is that you??

 

[xsited1]

Former Cigna exec describes industry's "close ties" to conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points"

Former Cigna exec describes*industry's "close ties" to*conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points" | Media Matters for America

But you still won't believe it will you?

That's to be expected. The government is getting so powerful that I'm afraid not even the "mighty corporations" will be able to compete with them. When that happens, we will all be at the mercy of the Federal Government. Thankfully, Federal employees are some of the most conscientious, honest and hard-working people on the planet.

 

[Gudrid]

Amazing.

Both sides engage in brainwashing techniques. Techniques that they've studied and attempted to perfect. BOTH sides. The nature of power is to crave more power.

And the way to distract, and get more power, is to create a "team" and an "enemy" to focus on. As both sides are doing in this thread. You're going at each other like this is some sort of either/or, as though we aren't all on the same side wanting, at heart, the same things - a better, stronger, free country - and merely disagree about the ways to get there. You play into their game - both sides. Every time you point a finger at the other side and say it's only the right or its only the left.

I'm sorry, I know that sounds preachy, but this bullshit drives me crazy. It's not any one side trying to brainwash and control, it's both, and if you jump on either bandwagon so completely, they've succeeded.

 

[editec]

ALL major political protest is politically contrived and well orchestrated by political insiders, folks.

The Republicans are doing it for the HC debate, the Dems have done it and will do it again, too.

This really IS okay, too.

Now, shutting down ration discussion of HC in town meeting is NOT okay, but having your partisan loyals show up and ask questions, even to the point of objecting strenusously to the answers is perfectly okay.

It's about respecting the venue, I think.

I object tothe shinannigans of the people shutting down town hall meetings for exactly the reason I objected when CODE PINK was doing the same damned thing.

Fucking partisan assholes.

They're the ANTI-Americans, folks.

 

[Old Rocks]

Former Cigna exec describes industry's "close ties" to conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points"

Former Cigna exec describes*industry's "close ties" to*conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points" | Media Matters for America

But you still won't believe it will you?

another very credible source!!!

Rick Scott: Health Care Enemy #1 | Orange Juice! Politics For The Rest Of Us.

Meet the man behind the health care chaos – Rick Scott. Just your average multi-millionaire medicare fraudster who was responsible for $1.7 BILLION Dollars in civil suit claims and fines. Not content to sit on the sidelines during this health care reform bill, he has pledged to spend over $20 million dollars to defeat Obama. Scott is a guy who totally scammed the system over a long period of time, and who now claims that he is afraid that Obama might mess up health care. Sit down, Mr. Scott. You are totally disingenuous! In order to get his dirty work done in thwarting honest decisions regarding our nation’s health care, he is heading up the group, Conservatives for Patients’ Rights (CPR) which is spending tens of millions of dollars in advertising lies and fraud. IMO, Rick Scott is the man who best embodies the spirit of the current conservative opposition.

One of Scott’s most recent projects has been linked to a company which both Iran and Saudi Arabia use to enforce internet censorship.

Scott sits on the board of Secure Computing. Media Matters released a document detailing Scott’s links to the internet monitoring company, which has been used by these regimes in order to suppress internet communication. Reporters Without Borders, in 2001, produced a report which stated: “According to Secure Computing, this software makes it possible to block millions of websites in over 60 categories. It is therefore easy for the Iranian government to block websites for political reasons. His name might not be a familiar one, but this guy is one busy boy. More at Wikipedia

 

[MarcATL]

So your reasoning is, millions of people like it, so it must be true? When the nazi party was the majority, were they correct in their views?

This is 2nd grade reasoning.

People like drama and theater. It's part of human nature. If you combine good theatre with the ability to manipulate people based on their fears and prejudices you can convert many people into thinking what you want them to think. You should watch the great documentary: Century of the Self

I think you can find it free on the internet. It's a history basically of how industry has used psychology to manipulate the masses to consume and vote how they wanted them too. It's long, but very good.

Getting to the rest of it. If this guy is indeed telling the truth and putting out Republican talking points, so what? You don't think the Democrats do that? What about all the ACORN members taking money from the Federal government and in tern pretty much campaigninng for Obama? The Democrats put out talking points all the time. Every political party does. What did you think? Only one guy in either political party has the game plan? I think you're blowing smoke and trying to sell something I'm not interested in buying.

No, the democrats don't do that. They've started issuing counter talking points when they finally woke up about 8 years ago and realized what a machine this has become. But they don't issue out right lies to their constituents. And who are they going to spread them too any ways? (I bet I know your answer, but sorry, right-wing media dominates our air waves).

As a liberal, I know what kind of lies I'm going to get from the Democratic party. I can objectively look at their information / positions, and make my own conclusions (I'm registered green party).

This is what we need Americans to really wake up to though:

America is a corporate fascist nation.

We have one party that completely kowtows to corporate interest, and another party that actually has members with some morality. This is why the democrats disagree within their own party. They actually have members who are not just being completely bought off, but the number through the years is shrinking. Republicans have no problem when they are in power, they don't have large disagreements (sure there are some here and there naturally), but by and large they are bought and paid for, so they have no problem moving legislation.

Look, at some point you have to honestly ask yourself, what is the goal of the two parties, and what really makes the most sense?

Is it a) There is a party completely drunk on power and money, and is owned by corporate America.

or b) There's a party that is trying to re-distribute wealth because they can control the masses.

Think long and hard about what is really more achievable and makes more sense. Is it a given that if B) exists that it would work? And also, would this be in alignment with the corporations and people who actually hold the money and powers world view?

When Republicans are trying to get in power, they easily manipulate their base with their wedge issues. They are all scare tactics to get them into power. Then they sit their and wink to each other, because do you think they care about abortion, gay rights, etc... ? No. Democrats use these as well, but if you look at the campaigns, it's not the focal point of what candidates run on.. it's just not. They don't send out pamphlets to their base saying democrats are trying to take their guns away, or their bibles, or kill their babies. They just don't.

There is a brainwashing occurring in America. It's not something you can deny. There's no way we have the geopolitical stranglehold on our planet, with over 4800 military bases throughout the world. This doesn't occur by giving people honest information, and letting them make decisions about how many children and people we should kill by going on a covert air raid, or sanctioning a country because it wouldn't give in to corporate interest, and allowing 500+ kids starve to death a day, or lying about the actions of a countries leaders (maybe saying they have nukes?), and then launching an illegal war to kill over 100k+ civilians (not even counting military).

I'd like to think that Americans have more integrity than that. So what you have to really ask yourself next time you look in the mirror is, am I being brainwashed?

Look, there will always be a group with controlling power in America. They will use a primary political party to achieve their goals (but they will use both parties at times). Today they are called Republicans, at some other point they may be something else. Doesn't matter how long we're on this earth, but liberals will always be the opposition party (it's not just that way in America, but everywhere). The liberals will be the party on the streets fighting for your worker rights, fighting for your health care rights, fighting for your liberties, fighting for your civil rights. It has and always will be...

Don't be a pawn.

One World for President 2016!

To those little children that like to throw FAUX's ratings as some sort of badge of honor, consider that Jerry Springer's ratings were/are even higher...Maury Povich as well, drama and drama queens sell in this country. This is 'American Idol' society...FAUXNews give those people what they crave...lies and drama and entertainment.

And as a daily watcher of that cable "news" channel...I can attest...its HIGHLY entertaining.

 

[OneWorld]

Amazing.

Both sides engage in brainwashing techniques. Techniques that they've studied and attempted to perfect. BOTH sides. The nature of power is to crave more power.

And the way to distract, and get more power, is to create a "team" and an "enemy" to focus on. As both sides are doing in this thread. You're going at each other like this is some sort of either/or, as though we aren't all on the same side wanting, at heart, the same things - a better, stronger, free country - and merely disagree about the ways to get there. You play into their game - both sides. Every time you point a finger at the other side and say it's only the right or its only the left.

I'm sorry, I know that sounds preachy, but this bullshit drives me crazy. It's not any one side trying to brainwash and control, it's both, and if you jump on either bandwagon so completely, they've succeeded.

We've all heard this argument before, and it's just not true. Both sides of course lie. Both sides have elements that are manipulating to gain more power. But both sides don't have a system in place to brainwash and control consumers into voting and buying against their own best interest. If you were to make that argument, you'd have to say that both sides have 50/50 control over the market place, media, and corporations, and that's just simply not true.

One side (the Republicans) are primarily on the side of special interest. At one point, quite some time ago (150 years ago), it was the Democrats. Whatever label of side is inconsequential. You have to be able to recognize where and why the manipulation is coming into effect. If you can't even see that though, you are thoroughly entrenched in the brainwashing.

 

[DiveCon]

Amazing.

Both sides engage in brainwashing techniques. Techniques that they've studied and attempted to perfect. BOTH sides. The nature of power is to crave more power.

And the way to distract, and get more power, is to create a "team" and an "enemy" to focus on. As both sides are doing in this thread. You're going at each other like this is some sort of either/or, as though we aren't all on the same side wanting, at heart, the same things - a better, stronger, free country - and merely disagree about the ways to get there. You play into their game - both sides. Every time you point a finger at the other side and say it's only the right or its only the left.

I'm sorry, I know that sounds preachy, but this bullshit drives me crazy. It's not any one side trying to brainwash and control, it's both, and if you jump on either bandwagon so completely, they've succeeded.

We've all heard this argument before, and it's just not true. Both sides of course lie. Both sides have elements that are manipulating to gain more power. But both sides don't have a system in place to brainwash and control consumers into voting and buying against their own best interest. If you were to make that argument, you'd have to say that both sides have 50/50 control over the market place, media, and corporations, and that's just simply not true.

One side (the Republicans) are primarily on the side of special interest. At one point, quite some time ago (150 years ago), it was the Democrats. Whatever label of side is inconsequential. You have to be able to recognize where and why the manipulation is coming into effect. If you can't even see that though, you are thoroughly entrenched in the brainwashing.

you are delusional if you dont think the dems have special interest groups as well

the only difference is you LIKE the dems special interest groups

 

[veritas]

Both sides of course lie. Both sides have elements that are manipulating to gain more power. But both sides don't have a system in place to brainwash and control consumers into voting and buying against their own best interest

er......yes they do, they're called the RNC and the DNC.


If we had a more informed society the presidential race would have been between Paul and Kucinich.

Captain Cockpit and Caribou Barbie would have been left at the gate.

 

[OneWorld]

Both sides of course lie. Both sides have elements that are manipulating to gain more power. But both sides don't have a system in place to brainwash and control consumers into voting and buying against their own best interest

er......yes they do, they're called the RNC and the DNC.


If we had a more informed society the presidential race would have been between Paul and Kucinich.

Captain Cockpit and Caribou Barbie would have been left at the gate.

Ok, let me be more clear. There is one primary power (although there are disputes among these international corporations), and they use both parties at times to perused people against their own best interest. However there is one party that is predominately used over another (and you can just check where the funding goes to know this).

This is why international policy never changes no matter who is in office. That machine cannot be touched, and is irrespective to the party in power.

On a side note, I had the pleasure of having a small home cooked dinner with Kucinich back in 2004 (about 10 people attending). My father in law has been (now retired) international president of the ILWU and also has some charity organizations that Dennis was interested in working with at the time when he was touring his new book.

I got to sit next to Dennis, because I was put in charge of getting his whole Vegan dinner together, and got to have some real good conversation about life / world views / and politics. I've had a number of sit down dinners (not always this small) with a lot of politicians, and Dennis was the most straight forward non-b.s. person I've talked to the political arena. And whether you agree with his positions or not, a very intelligent and ethically moral individual.

Yes, you're right, it would have been... but America is definitely not ready for intelligent politics (not just because the system tries to keep these people out, but there are a plethora of reasons).

 

[OneWorld]

you are delusional if you dont think the dems have special interest groups as well

the only difference is you LIKE the dems special interest groups

I never said the democrats don't have special interest groups... please. I'm saying that the largest international corporations, that dictate world (not just American) policy primarily fund the Republicans because the Republicans will play the dirtiest politics possible to stay in power.

If you follow the money, it's now shifting to democrats, and these same groups that were backing Repubs are now funding dems. Now, they ALWAYS fund both groups, but if you just do some simple research, you'll see how the ratio works out. It's always slightly over 2:1 to republicans.

And now, let's say you're a pharmaceutical company that is going to lose billions of dollars if a piece of legislation is passed. Who are you going to when you need a disinformation campaign created so you can sway public opinion negatively towards it? You're going to the machine that has Fox news because they'll put any kind of lie on, and you're sending it to Hannity, and all of these other paid shills so they can talk about it on their right-wing stations. Murdoch set this up not just to get money from you guys watching his political theater.... that's only a small portion of the pie

Democrats don't have a machine like this in place. I'm sorry, but despite whatever b.s. you believe, they don't go to CNN and start lying about legislation for democrats. The democrats don't have 140+ and counting right-wing talk radio stations. Crap, they only really have (and it's listener supported), and they have 1 that claims to be (Air America) which actually gets corporations who black list them from advertisers.

 

[DiveCon]

you are delusional if you dont think the dems have special interest groups as well

the only difference is you LIKE the dems special interest groups

I never said the democrats don't have special interest groups... please. I'm saying that the largest international corporations, that dictate world (not just American) policy primarily fund the Republicans because the Republicans will play the dirtiest politics possible to stay in power.

If you follow the money, it's now shifting to democrats, and these same groups that were backing Repubs are now funding dems. Now, they ALWAYS fund both groups, but if you just do some simple research, you'll see how the ratio works out. It's always slightly over 2:1 to republicans.

And now, let's say you're a pharmaceutical company that is going to lose billions of dollars if a piece of legislation is passed. Who are you going to when you need a disinformation campaign created so you can sway public opinion negatively towards it? You're going to the machine that has Fox news because they'll put any kind of lie on, and you're sending it to Hannity, and all of these other paid shills so they can talk about it on their right-wing stations. Murdoch set this up not just to get money from you guys watching his political theater.... that's only a small portion of the pie

Democrats don't have a machine like this in place. I'm sorry, but despite whatever b.s. you believe, they don't go to CNN and start lying about legislation for democrats. The democrats don't have 140+ and counting right-wing talk radio stations. Crap, they only really have (and it's listener supported), and they have 1 that claims to be (Air America) which actually gets corporations who black list them from advertisers.

you have half a truth there
they fund BOTH party's, when they are in power
and if you dont think the dems play dirty, you are BLIND

 

[KittenKoder]

Dem and Rep politicians play extremely dirty.

 

[edthecynic]

Obama camp plants fake doc, Che fan at Jackson Lee forum : Lone Star Times



yeah, the conservatives are plants

Is Roxana Mayer an Op Chaos false flag operative?
Limbaugh Operatives Could Decide the Democrat Nominee in Denver
March 27, 2008
RUSH: Both yesterday and today, we have had callers from Texas who are foot soldiers, enlisted officers, in Operation Chaos. Both of these gentlemen, one in Austin, the most recent from Galveston that you just heard, not only voted for Hillary Clinton in the Texas primary, but they went a step further. They went back and caucused. Operation Chaos operatives went back and caucused. These two are just two of many. These two are now delegates to the Texas state convention. They are delegates for Hillary Clinton to the Texas state Democrat convention. They will be there undercover. They will be there as Operation Chaos operatives, but they are not the only two.

There are many phases to Operation Chaos. We are simply here in phase one. Phase one consists of operatives changing party registration, voting in the Democrat primary in upcoming states, as happened in Ohio and Texas in record numbers, looks like it will happen in Pennsylvania in record numbers, in this case voting for Hillary or voting for Obama to continue the bloodletting in the Democrat Party all the way through their convention, for this chaos to continue. However, the second and third phases of Operation Chaos consist of exactly what you have heard happening in Texas. Our operatives actually are being named delegates to state party conventions. The third phase of Operation Chaos leads to some of these delegates actually being named delegates to the Democrat National Convention in Denver. So you Democrats and you members of the Drive-By Media, you who think that Operation Chaos is ineffective and isn't working, remember this. When we get to Denver and the Democrat National Convention, and you look around, and you're a delegate, the person next to you could be mine. The person sitting next to you in your delegation could be an Operation Chaos operative.

 

[edthecynic]

Former Cigna exec describes industry's "close ties" to conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points"

Former Cigna exec describes*industry's "close ties" to*conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points" | Media Matters for America

But you still won't believe it will you?

Since when did Media Matters become a credible source for anything?

Since CON$ said they were NOT a credible source.
CON$ are a Perfect Contrarian Indicator.

 

[edthecynic]

fuck off and get yourself unbrainwashed

We all suffer when you decide not to use your mind.

Here's someone that's come out and said, "I was an executive paid to create talking point lies, and deceive right-winger across their media outlets".

Your intelligent response: Fuck off, I don't want to know the truth.

How old are you? You obviously have no regard for truth, only confirming your own warped world view.

My advice is to believe nothing you read (out of newspapers and Time magazine) and only half of what you see on television.

Let's say for the sake of conversation that you are absolutely correct in your beliefs that Fox News is laying out all of this bogus bullshit that you preceive as conservative Republican talking points. For the moment let's say that is entirely correct. Fox News has the highest ratings of any television news on the tube today. They are miles ahead of any of the other stations. Now, they don't give themselves those ratings. They are based on something and it's the number of people watching the news on Fox. For the sake of the conversation we will say I am wrong and Fox News is also completely bogus. Well, what about the millions of other people who watch Fox News? How come you're so correct and everybody else, and I'm talking millions of everybody else, is so wrong? I think the numbers are against you and that means to me that you are not correct but only spewing out what you would like to be the truth.

You CON$ are tooooo EMOTIONAL for me.

Fallacy: Appeal to Popularity

Also Known as: Ad Populum
Description of Appeal to Popularity

The Appeal to Popularity has the following form:

1. 
   [*]Most people approve of X (have favorable emotions towards X).
   [*]Therefore X is true.

The basic idea is that a claim is accepted as being true simply because most people are favorably inclined towards the claim. More formally, the fact that most people have favorable emotions associated with the claim is substituted in place of actual evidence for the claim. A person falls prey to this fallacy if he accepts a claim as being true simply because most other people approve of the claim.

It is clearly fallacious to accept the approval of the majority as evidence for a claim. For example, suppose that a skilled speaker managed to get most people to absolutely love the claim that 1+1=3. It would still not be rational to accept this claim simply because most people approved of it. After all, mere approval is no substitute for a mathematical proof. At one time people approved of claims such as "the world is flat", "humans cannot survive at speeds greater than 25 miles per hour", "the sun revolves around the earth" but all these claims turned out to be false.

This sort of "reasoning" is quite common and can be quite an effective persusasive device. Since most humans tend to conform with the views of the majority, convincing a person that the majority approves of a claim is often an effective way to get him to accept it. Advertisers often use this tactic when they attempt to sell products by claiming that everyone uses and loves their products. In such cases they hope that people will accept the (purported) approval of others as a good reason to buy the product.

This fallacy is vaguely similar to such fallacies as Appeal to Belief and Appeal to Common Practice. However, in the case of an Ad Populum the appeal is to the fact that most people approve of a claim. In the case of an Appeal to Belief, the appeal is to the fact that most people believe a claim. In the case of an Appeal to Common Practice, the appeal is to the fact that many people take the action in question.

This fallacy is closely related to the Appeal to Emotion fallacy, as discussed in the entry for that fallacy.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Damn it!

I thought Richard Scaife was our leader? When the fuck was anybody going to tell me I was supposed to get my Talking points from Cigna?

 

[tigerbob]

Former Cigna exec describes industry's "close ties" to conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points"

Former Cigna exec describes*industry's "close ties" to*conservative media, to which "they feed the talking points" | Media Matters for America

But you still won't believe it will you?

Clearly you will though, right?

It may be true. But just because the Cigna exec says it's so doesn't make it so. There was a whistleblower from an industry I was closely involved with who has made a fortune basically lying for the last 15 years.

It depends on how predisposed people are to believe any bad shit they hear about a particular industry. When it comes to oil, tobacco or pharmaceuticals people will pretty much believe anything they're told. This is increasingly becoming the case with the financial industries like banking and insurance, though of course there is a clear pecking order about which industries are less believed than others.

Whistleblowers are usually people who are pissed about something, which tends to color their views. Doesn't make them wrong, but it does mean that their views should be treated with at least some degree of suspicion, as should the views of anyone who is playing a political game.

At least that's my view. You appear to be happy to swallow the bait without chewing. Each to their own I guess.