Armed Citizens are Better & Safer than Armed Police!

[Saigon]

Skull Pilot -

Firstly, because Finland also has a high rate of gun ownership - and the high homicide rate to prove it, so this is also an issue my country needs to deal with.

But mainly because this just seems to be such a huge bindspot in American society. It's like American people have been conned for years into believing that it is perfectly normal to have a homicide rate 10 times that of other countries, and at last Americans seeming to be waking up to the fact that they simply don't have to accept mass shootings as being a weekly occurance.

 

[JoeB131]

Reality check time...

According the the FBI- the number of "Justifiable Homicides" by gun was only 201 in 2010.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

Defined as the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony, that's it. Out of 300 million guns, only 201 were used to kill felons.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot -

Firstly, because Finland also has a high rate of gun ownership - and the high homicide rate to prove it, so this is also an issue my country needs to deal with.

But mainly because this just seems to be such a huge bindspot in American society. It's like American people have been conned for years into believing that it is perfectly normal to have a homicide rate 10 times that of other countries, and at last Americans seeming to be waking up to the fact that they simply don't have to accept mass shootings as being a weekly occurance.

We don't have weekly mass shootings. Hyperbole will get you nowhere.

And until the second amendment is changed we will be a nation of gun owners.

The fact is hat 99.99% of gun owners will never kill anyone with their weapons. Holding people responsible for the act of others is unjust.

And personally I don't want to depend on the government to come to my aid because quite frankly in a life or death situation I'd be dead before they got here.

There is absolutely no reason to disarm law abiding gun owners as they have nothing to do with the homicide rate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Reality check time...

According the the FBI- the number of "Justifiable Homicides" by gun was only 201 in 2010.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

Defined as the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony, that's it. Out of 300 million guns, only 201 were used to kill felons.

So you want to get rid of guns and be the cause of 200 deaths to violent crime?

We know, you're a control freak.

 

[JoeB131]

Reality check time...

According the the FBI- the number of "Justifiable Homicides" by gun was only 201 in 2010.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

Defined as the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony, that's it. Out of 300 million guns, only 201 were used to kill felons.

So you want to get rid of guns and be the cause of 200 deaths to violent crime?

We know, you're a control freak.

200 deaths (or probably not) vs. 30,000 people who die as a result of murder, suicide and accidents with guns?

Pretty much exploding the myth that you all need guns for protection when they are almost never used for that purpose.

 

[Freewill]

I heard a the reason people carry guns is because carrying a policeman is too heavy.

 

[HomeInspect]

Police will only be a good as the public wants them to be. In a society that pays it's entertainers 100 times more than its protectors and educators, the priorities in that society are not in being protected and educated.

 

[Saigon]

We don't have weekly mass shootings. Hyperbole will get you nowhere.

Of course I am exaggerating - but not by such a wild amount.

There were 7 mass shootings in 2012, and have been 62 in the past 20 years. Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally.

These figures only include instances where 4 or more people were killed. If we include instances where a shooter attempted to kill multiple victims, the numbers skyrocket.

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

 

[HomeInspect]

I heard a the reason people carry guns is because carrying a policeman is too heavy.

Sounds funny, but it is true. The average police response time in my jurisdiction is 7 minutes. Life or death decisions happen in seconds.

 

[JoeB131]

I heard a the reason people carry guns is because carrying a policeman is too heavy.

Sounds funny, but it is true. The average police response time in my jurisdiction is 7 minutes. Life or death decisions happen in seconds.

Again, according to the FBI, only 201 instances of a civilian killing a felon during the commission of a felony with a gun.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

 

[Freewill]

I heard a the reason people carry guns is because carrying a policeman is too heavy.

Sounds funny, but it is true. The average police response time in my jurisdiction is 7 minutes. Life or death decisions happen in seconds.

Pay has nothing to do with police there would never be enough. Look at what some police get paid in our bigger cities it is quite amazing. Looking at the rural/suburban area I live. We could afford a private police force but the cost would either take away from anything else the borough does or taxes would have to skyrocket. So for a pretend promise of protection we are to spend our treasure? I can't think of a time when the police actually stopped a crime in progress. How could they? Unless there is a moving truck backed up to a house robbing the place it isn't too hard to hide from one cop on duty. So in the end a person is pretty much on their own. But Heave forbid don't go 10 miles over the speed limit THAT is something the police will do something about.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Reality check time...

According the the FBI- the number of "Justifiable Homicides" by gun was only 201 in 2010.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

Defined as the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony, that's it. Out of 300 million guns, only 201 were used to kill felons.

So you want to get rid of guns and be the cause of 200 deaths to violent crime?

We know, you're a control freak.

200 deaths (or probably not) vs. 30,000 people who die as a result of murder, suicide and accidents with guns?

Pretty much exploding the myth that you all need guns for protection when they are almost never used for that purpose.

Stop counting suicide. Suicide is not a violent crime in fact it shouldn't be a crime at all.

And I would rather have a gun for protection and never have to use it than to not have a gun if I need one.

The fact is that my owning guns has nothing to do with any crime.

Holding people responsible for the acts of others is unjust and indefensible.

 

[Saigon]

I can't think of a time when the police actually stopped a crime in progress.

Seriously - you don't think the fact that police are often visible on the streets prevents a hell of a lot of crimes from ever taking place in the first place?

I can also remember a few cases where police have got to domestic abuse cases here and made an arrest before the woman and/or kids would likely have been killed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We don't have weekly mass shootings. Hyperbole will get you nowhere.

Of course I am exaggerating - but not by such a wild amount.

There were 7 mass shootings in 2012, and have been 62 in the past 20 years. Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally.

These figures only include instances where 4 or more people were killed. If we include instances where a shooter attempted to kill multiple victims, the numbers skyrocket.

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

Mother Jones?

Really?

And again why should I or any law abiding gun owner be held responsible for the acts of a criminal ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I can't think of a time when the police actually stopped a crime in progress.

Seriously - you don't think the fact that police are often visible on the streets prevents a hell of a lot of crimes from ever taking place in the first place?

I can also remember a few cases where police have got to domestic abuse cases here and made an arrest before the woman and/or kids would likely have been killed.

Cops don't prevent crime they show up after the fact.

 

[Saigon]

Stop counting suicide. Suicide is not a violent crime in fact it shouldn't be a crime at all.

I totally agree that suicide is not a crime - but it is also a fact that because a gun is such an effective means of committing suicide, suicide rates tend to be higher in homes with guns by a considerable factor.

I think it's a little to one side of the main debate here, but it is worth keeping in mind.

 

[Saigon]

And again why should I or any law abiding gun owner be held responsible for the acts of a criminal ?

Because...

Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally.

 

[Freewill]

I heard a the reason people carry guns is because carrying a policeman is too heavy.

Sounds funny, but it is true. The average police response time in my jurisdiction is 7 minutes. Life or death decisions happen in seconds.

Again, according to the FBI, only 201 instances of a civilian killing a felon during the commission of a felony with a gun.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

Holy crap it was that high??? According to your source there were 387 justifiable homicides by police officers.

us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl14.xls

Police carry guns to stop crime yet just using the numbers provided 1/3 of the crimes are stopped by civilians, quite amazing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Stop counting suicide. Suicide is not a violent crime in fact it shouldn't be a crime at all.

I totally agree that suicide is not a crime - but it is also a fact that because a gun is such an effective means of committing suicide, suicide rates tend to be higher in homes with guns by a considerable factor.

I think it's a little to one side of the main debate here, but it is worth keeping in mind.

Anyone bent on killing themselves will do so with or without a gun

And again my owning guns has no bearing on the suicide of anyone.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And again why should I or any law abiding gun owner be held responsible for the acts of a criminal ?

Because...

Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally.

So millions of people should be punished for the acts of a few?