Armed Citizens are Better & Safer than Armed Police!

[Wry Catcher]

Skull Pilot -

The point that we seem to be stuck on is the fact that not every gun owner is as responsible as you are - just as not every car or dog owner is as responsible as they might be.

Thus, the law needs tke into conideration the risk of those who are not entirely responsible. Which is why we have ay kind of law, right?

If no one committed murder, we wouldn't need laws against it. Unfortunately, we need those laws.

Likewise, we need laws which both filter the kinds of people who can get their hands on a weapon, and we need to try to limit access to the kinds of weapons most often used in killing.

I am not responsible for the behavior of others and I don't want to be.

It's a full time job looking after myself and my wife.

I realized a long time ago that the only person who is going to protect me is me and I will not ever abrogate that responsibility to the government or anyone else for that matter and I will never agree to rule of law that prevents me from doing so.

I believe that only people who actually break the law or actually commit a crime should be the target of the law and be held responsible for crimes. In fact I am all in favor of life in prison without parole for any person committing a violent crime with a gun.

I place individual rights at the top of the list all other rights are below those and societal or collective rights are on the bottom of the list as thy should be.

My image of you is that of a 66 year old guy who shot and killed a bus driver and is now holding a five year old hostage.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull Pilot -

The point that we seem to be stuck on is the fact that not every gun owner is as responsible as you are - just as not every car or dog owner is as responsible as they might be.

Thus, the law needs tke into conideration the risk of those who are not entirely responsible. Which is why we have ay kind of law, right?

If no one committed murder, we wouldn't need laws against it. Unfortunately, we need those laws.

Likewise, we need laws which both filter the kinds of people who can get their hands on a weapon, and we need to try to limit access to the kinds of weapons most often used in killing.

I am not responsible for the behavior of others and I don't want to be.

It's a full time job looking after myself and my wife.

I realized a long time ago that the only person who is going to protect me is me and I will not ever abrogate that responsibility to the government or anyone else for that matter and I will never agree to rule of law that prevents me from doing so.

I believe that only people who actually break the law or actually commit a crime should be the target of the law and be held responsible for crimes. In fact I am all in favor of life in prison without parole for any person committing a violent crime with a gun.

I place individual rights at the top of the list all other rights are below those and societal or collective rights are on the bottom of the list as thy should be.

My image of you is that of a 66 year old guy who shot and killed a bus driver and is now holding a five year old hostage.

No Not at all.

I'm 20 years younger own a business and love my wife. I don't have a bunker and I don't have hundreds of weapons. I don't even have 10 for that matter. I do not own an AR frame rifle and do not want one.

And I never had kids because I didn't want to so why the hell would I kidnap some rug rat?

 

[KissMy]

My image of you is that of a 66 year old guy who shot and killed a bus driver and is now holding a five year old hostage.

There you have the typical democrat. They can only see what their masters show & tell them on TV. They are drooling drones that are totally disconnected from reality.

 

[Wry Catcher]

My image of you is that of a 66 year old guy who shot and killed a bus driver and is now holding a five year old hostage.

There you have the typical democrat. They can only see what their masters show & tell them on TV. They are drooling drones that are totally disconnected from reality.

Kiss my ass. Both you and SP missed the point which was a sarcastic comment based on a current event and SP's description of his philosophy. I somethimes forget that concrete thinkers abound on this forum.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My image of you is that of a 66 year old guy who shot and killed a bus driver and is now holding a five year old hostage.

There you have the typical democrat. They can only see what their masters show & tell them on TV. They are drooling drones that are totally disconnected from reality.

Kiss my ass. Both you and SP missed the point which was a sarcastic comment based on a current event and SP's description of his philosophy. I somethimes forget that concrete thinkers abound on this forum.

The one thing about my philosophy you forgot to mention is that the number one tenet is to mind your own business.

I don't know why that's so hard for you people to understand.

 

[Saigon]

There you have the typical democrat. They can only see what their masters show & tell them on TV. They are drooling drones that are totally disconnected from reality.

You may not have heard this, but there was an election in November, and the majority of the American people chose a Democrat.

If you ever want the GOP to win another election, forget thise gibberish about drones, and start to ask yourself why your guy lost. Part of that might involve accepting a few basic truths and facts - some of which appear on this thread.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you care to support your claim that most gun deaths are committed by law abiding gun owners?

And of those gun deaths how many were caused by cops, criminals and people defending themselves.

it's retarded to think that the fucking government can protect you.

I have many times... and when I bring out the Kellerman Study, you whine, "Well, sucides shouldn't count!" and then start whining about communism and how the government wants to take your mojo!

Which is why I think we just need to get about the business of banning guns and just ignore the NRA and the gun nutters. Go directly after the gun manufacturers.

 

[HomeInspect]

Do you care to support your claim that most gun deaths are committed by law abiding gun owners?

And of those gun deaths how many were caused by cops, criminals and people defending themselves.

it's retarded to think that the fucking government can protect you.

I have many times... and when I bring out the Kellerman Study, you whine, "Well, sucides shouldn't count!" and then start whining about communism and how the government wants to take your mojo!

Which is why I think we just need to get about the business of banning guns and just ignore the NRA and the gun nutters. Go directly after the gun manufacturers.

So should we go after the car manufacturers for killing five time more people annualy than guns ? wow.... and right after Obama bailed their asses out... !!

 

[bucs90]

it's retarded to think that the fucking government can protect you.

So you'd suggest we slash the military to almost non-existent? Since, as you say, it would be retarded to think the government can protect us?

So where would you start? How about just eliminate the entire Marine Corp and Air Force, and just let the Army/Navy exist for now. Until, as you say, we realize even that is too much since it would be retarded to think the govt can protect us.

Right?

 

[JoeB131]

[

So should we go after the car manufacturers for killing five time more people annualy than guns ? wow.... and right after Obama bailed their asses out... !!

Lazy thinking.... but I can totally understand that. Do try to change the subject now that people are getting wise to the fact the gun industry is playing us all for saps.

 

[Saigon]

So should we go after the car manufacturers for killing five time more people annualy than guns ? wow.... and right after Obama bailed their asses out... !!

Firstly - car owners already have driver's licenses, speed limits, car safety checks, seat belt laws, and compulsory use of everything from headlights to exhaust emissions filters.

Gun owners don't.

Secondly - the US does not have a care safety rate four times worse than any other developed country.

 

[bucs90]

It seems we have a lot of people who simply have the following beliefs:

- They should be allowed all the freedoms they desire and society should just "TRUST" that they aren't criminals and never will be
- Laws should be strict on OTHER people, but leave them alone, because like they said, TRUST them, they arent the bad guys
- The government can NOT protect them; Period. Thus, they must think the military is useless, since the government cant protect them.
- EVERYONE else in the world is just a responsible, capable and trustworthy as they are; Thus, everyone else should take up arms, defend themselves (rather than live happily and without fear) against threats real and fictional; And, of course, dont dare be weak, scared, incapable or just have a desire to not pack heat.


Lots of the extremists on here lately seem to wish they just had their own island....or cave. Yes, a cave. HEY, you guys could move to Afghanistan!!!!!! Their gun lovers live in caves, own RPG's, full auto AK's, grenades, all that...their govt leaves them alone, and they got their guns and freedom!!!!

 

[bucs90]

So should we go after the car manufacturers for killing five time more people annualy than guns ? wow.... and right after Obama bailed their asses out... !!

Firstly - car owners already have driver's licenses, speed limits, car safety checks, seat belt laws, and compulsory use of everything from headlights to exhaust emissions filters.

Gun owners don't.

Secondly - the US does not have a care safety rate four times worse than any other developed country.

And, thats a lazy argument that guy is making.

Of course cars kill more people yearly. Every single day, a couple hundred MILLION people in America activate and engage in the use of a car. Every day.

If 200,000,000 people per day ACTIVELY took up and used a gun, for its intended use, every single day, there would be just as many, if not more, deaths.

Today...in an hour or so....tens of millions of people will activate a car for its intended use, and use it. How many MILLIONS of people will activate a gun for it's intended use today? Far fewer. There will be a few dozen shootings today between gang members. Somewhere in America there will be a handful of police shootings. I wont count hunting, because thats a sport, just as we wouldnt count NASCAR with car statistics because thats a sport.

So, today, I'd say 150,000,000 people will activate and use a car for it's intended purpose.

And today, I'd say at most 200 people will activate and use a gun for it's intended purpose (and thats a high estimate).

Over the course of 365 days, with that cycle repeating daily, OF COURSE more people will die from cars than guns. Its a bad argument statistically, because the use of a car is so astronomically higher daily than the use of guns.

The correct stat would read: For every 10 times a gun or car is activated for it's intended use (outside of sports like hunting/racing), how many times is a person hurt? When a gun gets activated, it is to kill people (good or bad). When a car is activated, millions of times daily, people die...but not that often. With guns, someone usually dies or is severely hurt.

 

[OriginalShroom]

It seems we have a lot of people who simply have the following beliefs:

- They should be allowed all the freedoms they desire and society should just "TRUST" that they aren't criminals and never will be
- Laws should be strict on OTHER people, but leave them alone, because like they said, TRUST them, they arent the bad guys
- The government can NOT protect them; Period. Thus, they must think the military is useless, since the government cant protect them.
- EVERYONE else in the world is just a responsible, capable and trustworthy as they are; Thus, everyone else should take up arms, defend themselves (rather than live happily and without fear) against threats real and fictional; And, of course, dont dare be weak, scared, incapable or just have a desire to not pack heat.


Lots of the extremists on here lately seem to wish they just had their own island....or cave. Yes, a cave. HEY, you guys could move to Afghanistan!!!!!! Their gun lovers live in caves, own RPG's, full auto AK's, grenades, all that...their govt leaves them alone, and they got their guns and freedom!!!!

1 - I don't remember the last time that I was told that my "Rights and Freedoms" were dependent upon "society's view". Is that the argument that the left is using to Gay Marriage off? That even though society, as proven by public vote after vote even in California, is against Gay Marriage, that Gays have the right to marry?

Or is that standard changing now?

2 - I never knew that in order to exercise my rights, I had to prove that would be responsible first. I thought that I only lost my rights after I proved that I couldn't be responsible by committing a crime.

3 - I would suggest that you review the SCotUS case, Castle Rock v. Gonzales.

4 - If you have a problem with people exercising their rights, I would suggest that move someplace where people have few rights. North Korea, China, and Cuba come to mind.

 

[Saigon]

That even though society, as proven by public vote after vote even in California, is against Gay Marriage, that Gays have the right to marry?

Fifty percent of Americans believe same-sex marriages should be recognized by law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages -- down slightly from 53% last year, but marking only the second time in Gallup's history of tracking this question that at least half of Americans have supported legal same-sex marriage. Forty-eight percent say such marriages should not be legal.

Half of Americans Support Legal Gay Marriage

 

[editec]

I'm so old I can remember when men who owned guns (often a lot of guns, too, please note) didn't define themselves by their gun ownership.

I miss those guys.

 

[HomeInspect]

So should we go after the car manufacturers for killing five time more people annualy than guns ? wow.... and right after Obama bailed their asses out... !!

Firstly - car owners already have driver's licenses, speed limits, car safety checks, seat belt laws, and compulsory use of everything from headlights to exhaust emissions filters.

Gun owners don't.

Secondly - the US does not have a care safety rate four times worse than any other developed country.

So saftey requirements are a good thing. Background checks, waiting periods, saftey classes etc... OK with me. Still, how is going after a gun manufacturer for mishandling their product and different than going after a car manufacturer for mishandling their product ?

 

[OriginalShroom]

That even though society, as proven by public vote after vote even in California, is against Gay Marriage, that Gays have the right to marry?

Fifty percent of Americans believe same-sex marriages should be recognized by law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages -- down slightly from 53% last year, but marking only the second time in Gallup's history of tracking this question that at least half of Americans have supported legal same-sex marriage. Forty-eight percent say such marriages should not be legal.

Half of Americans Support Legal Gay Marriage

Which poll do you want to believe? One that was supposed a random sampling or one where everyone had the chance to cast their opinion in a controlled manner?

 

[HomeInspect]

[

So should we go after the car manufacturers for killing five time more people annualy than guns ? wow.... and right after Obama bailed their asses out... !!

Lazy thinking.... but I can totally understand that. Do try to change the subject now that people are getting wise to the fact the gun industry is playing us all for saps.

That was a lazy answer to the question and it wan't answered. If you are irresponsible and mishandle a product, then the manufacturer is responsible? wow is that some crazy thinking. Another step to making only the lawyers richer. The only thing the gun manufacturers have played us for, is having a socialist in the top office, and taking advantage of people's concern and outrage by selling more guns. Supply and demand.. got to love it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It seems we have a lot of people who simply have the following beliefs:

- They should be allowed all the freedoms they desire and society should just "TRUST" that they aren't criminals and never will be

So we should get rid of the innocent until proven guilty clause. Let's just assume everyone is guilty of a crime and treat everyone like a criminal.

- Laws should be strict on OTHER people, but leave them alone, because like they said, TRUST them, they arent the bad guys

One is not a bad guy until one actually breaks the law. I know this may come as a shock to you but you cannot see the future.

- The government can NOT protect them; Period. Thus, they must think the military is useless, since the government cant protect them.

The military does not protect civilians in country. Tell me how many government, or state agents are sitting in your driveway protecting you and your family right now?

- EVERYONE else in the world is just a responsible, capable and trustworthy as they are; Thus, everyone else should take up arms, defend themselves (rather than live happily and without fear) against threats real and fictional; And, of course, dont dare be weak, scared, incapable or just have a desire to not pack heat.

No. There are are a lot of people in the world who are dangerous and intent on harming others therefore those that are law abiding need to protect themselves from harm.

Lots of the extremists on here lately seem to wish they just had their own island....or cave. Yes, a cave. HEY, you guys could move to Afghanistan!!!!!! Their gun lovers live in caves, own RPG's, full auto AK's, grenades, all that...their govt leaves them alone, and they got their guns and freedom!!!!

All I want is for people like you to mind their own business. And yes government should leave people alone if they have done nothing wrong or do you mean to say that you are for a government that will perform unwarranted searches because someone might maybe someday commit a crime ?

After all if you're not doing anything wrong why would you object to a dozen armed SWAT agents searching your house whenever they want?

After all we're not supposed to trust you are we?