Arming teachers bad cus in Parkand a singlular example exists of a cowardly RO not doing job, WTF?

[Brain357]

You would never be able to have sufficient numbers of resource officers compared to how many teachers you could arm. I taught at a high school in Florida similar to Parkland. We had over 3200 students, 200 staff members and 2 resource officers. We were the only school in the district with 2.

A fellow faculty member was a Army Reserves Special Forces major. My counterpart assistant principal was a former Army Ranger. Our Air Force Junior ROTC was a twenty-year veteran security police officer. There were actually many more, but I think you get the picture. Are county sheriffs deputies better than they would be in an active shooter situation?

Parkland had one armed resource officer for 3,100 students....with 12 buildings on campus.....

And he could have helped but didn’t.

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control don’t have school shootings...

Britain had almost zero school shootings before they banned guns........and their laws haven't stopped any since....

Good luck does not mean your gun control laws stopped school shootings....as these examples show....

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------

The document said the boy would “lay low” in Catterick before murdering his ex-girlfriend’s parents and stealing her father’s guns, the court heard.

“I’ll make some explosives then well find a way back to Northallerton and well begin our assault on that f****** school,” it continued

----

"This was no teenage fantasy; it was real,” he added. “They intended a re-enactment of the Columbine High School Massacre although fortunately, in the result, they were stopped before their plans were put into action.”

.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the updat, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?


-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'


15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.

=======




'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



What kept this from becoming a mass shooting?



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

We have 4x more homicides that britain.

So? We have lower levels of gun murder after more Americans own and carry guns....they have more gun crime after they banned and confiscated guns.... you have to hide behind their gun murder rate because you know it was always low...even when they had access to guns...meaning their gun control laws had nothing to do with their gun murder rate.....

Violent crime has been higher the last few years as carry has increased...

 

[Crixus]

Yeah it makes sense for a kid to trust some out of shape teachers that would probably shoot their eye out when a trained officer didnt do what he was trained to do and was his full time job.

Gotta agree on this. Most school resource cops are the washouts from the PD and security guard academies, or they are old fat lazy cops riding the gravy train to a TRS retirement package. But the worst thought for me is thinking about These folks having a gun fight over the heads of kids.

 

[Sahba]

In an interview with Variety Parkland gun control activist Emma Gonzalez suggested arming teachers is a bad idea because her school had “a resource officer and he didn’t do jack sh*t.”
The resource officer referenced by Gonzalez is former Broward County deputy Scot Peterson, who arrived outside the scene of the Parkland attack roughly 90 seconds after it began and stayed outside until it was over, instead of going in to confront the gunman.

Lost on Gonzalez is the fact that armed teachers are there as a last resort. They are there to shoot the attacker if the deputy will not go in or in the event that the deputy cannot go in.

Are the anti 2Aers so simple minded as to think that the almighty 'Nanny State' is the best defense against unleashed homicidal terror. Is the notion of 'Personal Responsibility' so repugnant that it extends to the very lives of their children. What the F, If the principle tells a parent that he has an AR locked up in his office I would expect parents to be thrilled, wouldn't U!

Emma Gonzalez: Don't Arm Teachers, 'We Had a Resource Officer and He Didn't Do Jack Sh*t' | Breitbart

Many school shootings have had armed defenders who either got shot or did nothing.

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control continue to not have school shootings...

There are some fundamental flaws in your logic.
- we do have millions of firearms in our nation and a Constitution that will render any meaningful reduction unconstitutional (Thank God) so lets start with that reality
- What is the better scenario, hypothetically, having an armed defender who fails or not having the armed defender in the first place?

What 'should' happen and what will happen re. school safety protocol will NEVER be fully realized. My local HS has a few hundred students with exactly x 21 doors or access points including shop doors where students learn to work on tractors, implements etc. These schools struggle to minimize the times where even a majority of these access points are sealed off at any given time. The majority of these schools in 'middle America' should, but won't, be seeing metal detectors, bullet proof glass and live stream security cameras any time soon, that's the reality.

We might have to choose between protecting our children or easy access to guns. Choice easy for me.

It is not a zero sum scenario as you postulate! The firearms will always be here in this country even if there were to be an unconstitutional 'brown shirt' / draconian gun grab by our state and fed. gov. From its inception, our nation's existence, in the first place, was predicated on an armed citizenry and that 'dies hard' i.e it just won't ever be fully realized... Ever.

 

[Brain357]

Yeah it makes sense for a kid to trust some out of shape teachers that would probably shoot their eye out when a trained officer didnt do what he was trained to do and was his full time job.

Gotta agree on this. Most school resource cops are the washouts from the PD and security guard academies, or they are old fat lazy cops riding the gravy train to a TRS retirement package. But the worst thought for me is thinking about These folks having a gun fight over the heads of kids.

Even our highly trained military has friendly fire...

 

[Brain357]

In an interview with Variety Parkland gun control activist Emma Gonzalez suggested arming teachers is a bad idea because her school had “a resource officer and he didn’t do jack sh*t.”
The resource officer referenced by Gonzalez is former Broward County deputy Scot Peterson, who arrived outside the scene of the Parkland attack roughly 90 seconds after it began and stayed outside until it was over, instead of going in to confront the gunman.

Lost on Gonzalez is the fact that armed teachers are there as a last resort. They are there to shoot the attacker if the deputy will not go in or in the event that the deputy cannot go in.

Are the anti 2Aers so simple minded as to think that the almighty 'Nanny State' is the best defense against unleashed homicidal terror. Is the notion of 'Personal Responsibility' so repugnant that it extends to the very lives of their children. What the F, If the principle tells a parent that he has an AR locked up in his office I would expect parents to be thrilled, wouldn't U!

Emma Gonzalez: Don't Arm Teachers, 'We Had a Resource Officer and He Didn't Do Jack Sh*t' | Breitbart

Many school shootings have had armed defenders who either got shot or did nothing.

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control continue to not have school shootings...

There are some fundamental flaws in your logic.
- we do have millions of firearms in our nation and a Constitution that will render any meaningful reduction unconstitutional (Thank God) so lets start with that reality
- What is the better scenario, hypothetically, having an armed defender who fails or not having the armed defender in the first place?

What 'should' happen and what will happen re. school safety protocol will NEVER be fully realized. My local HS has a few hundred students with exactly x 21 doors or access points including shop doors where students learn to work on tractors, implements etc. These schools struggle to minimize the times where even a majority of these access points are sealed off at any given time. The majority of these schools in 'middle America' should, but won't, be seeing metal detectors, bullet proof glass and live stream security cameras any time soon, that's the reality.

We might have to choose between protecting our children or easy access to guns. Choice easy for me.

It is not a zero sum scenario as you postulate! The firearms will always be here in this country even if there were to be an unconstitutional 'brown shirt' / draconian gun grab by our state and fed. gov.

As long as we can’t protect our children we are in a sorry state.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Didn't read your own link? The student was injured because something from the ceiling fell on him. He was not struck by a bullet.

Weird. I don't recall saying that the student was struck by a bullet.

I believe I said that it's more likely that the gun is accidentally discharged than it is for a teacher to save the day by shooting a bad guy.

The student was not injured by the gun! The "gun-trained teacher" was practicing gun safety by keeping the weapon pointed up. It defeats your argument entirely!

I guess I'll just repeat the exact same thing I said last time since you clearly didn't read it.

Weird. I don't recall saying that the student was struck by a bullet.

I believe I said that it's more likely that the gun is accidentally discharged than it is for a teacher to save the day by shooting a bad guy.​

 

[XponentialChaos]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Why does the teacher have to carry the firearm? You are making a gross assumption. Why can't the gun be locked away in the classroom?

Also, many teachers are veterans and others have experience with firearms.

I am a veteran with extensive training. When we did active shooter training, the principal even told the entire faculty he would be staying with me where he knew he would be safe. My assistant principal at one of the schools where I worked was a deputy sheriff before he became a teacher.

Try coming into my school if I and my fellow teachers were armed and see how long you last. I give you two minutes of walking around checking locked classroom doors before you bleed out on the floor.

Yea? Well the link that you accused me of not reading said that the person who accidentally discharged their gun happened to also be a reserve police officer trained in firearm use.

What happened there? Why was the gun not locked away in a non-emergency situation? Was that teacher more likely to kill a school shooter or an innocent student?

Is an unarmed teacher likely to kill a school shooter or get killed along with the students if they have no gun at all?

Unlike your supposition, mine has an almost 100% certainty, whereas your scenario has a microscopic chance of occurring.

Teachers are armed.

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

Which is more likely to happen?

 

[Marion Morrison]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Sutherland, Texas shooter....stopped by a "private citizen" armed with an AR-15.
Private citizens armed with AR-15's have stopped criminals in their own homes.
Hundreds of thousands of armed private citizens have stopped criminals armed with stolen firearms.
As for schools, all a teacher with no firearms training needs is a safety class and some regular practice at the range.

"As for schools, all a teacher with no firearms training needs is a safety class and some regular practice at the range."

Its bad enough our teachers arent paid for teaching our children. Teachers have to pay for school supplies. This would just be another expense they would have to pay for and maintain instead of teaching and grading.

So give them an allowance to offset the cost. Ta-Da!

 

[DrLove]

TEACHERS don't want to arm teachers and neither do students.
Emma probably could have made her point better.
She's young and smart - give her time.

Six minutes and twenty seconds - Sometimes silence is more powerful than words

 

[Marion Morrison]

Y'all do know what happened after the Parkland shooting, right? Gov. Rick Scott sent State Troopers down to protect the children at Parkland because Sheriff Israel's leftist chickenshit operation isn't up to the task.

 

[Windparadox]

Gotta agree on this. Most school resource cops are the washouts from the PD and security guard academies, or they are old fat lazy cops riding the gravy train to a TRS retirement package. But the worst thought for me is thinking about These folks having a gun fight over the heads of kids.

`
Source? Facts? Links?

 

[Brain357]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Why does the teacher have to carry the firearm? You are making a gross assumption. Why can't the gun be locked away in the classroom?

Also, many teachers are veterans and others have experience with firearms.

I am a veteran with extensive training. When we did active shooter training, the principal even told the entire faculty he would be staying with me where he knew he would be safe. My assistant principal at one of the schools where I worked was a deputy sheriff before he became a teacher.

Try coming into my school if I and my fellow teachers were armed and see how long you last. I give you two minutes of walking around checking locked classroom doors before you bleed out on the floor.

Yea? Well the link that you accused me of not reading said that the person who accidentally discharged their gun happened to also be a reserve police officer trained in firearm use.

What happened there? Why was the gun not locked away in a non-emergency situation? Was that teacher more likely to kill a school shooter or an innocent student?

Is an unarmed teacher likely to kill a school shooter or get killed along with the students if they have no gun at all?

Unlike your supposition, mine has an almost 100% certainty, whereas your scenario has a microscopic chance of occurring.

Teachers are armed.

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

Which is more likely to happen?

Around 600 people a year die just in accidental shootings in this country. Thousands injured. Guns make us safer?

 

[Sahba]

Parkland had one armed resource officer for 3,100 students....with 12 buildings on campus.....

And he could have helped but didn’t.

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control don’t have school shootings...

Britain had almost zero school shootings before they banned guns........and their laws haven't stopped any since....

Good luck does not mean your gun control laws stopped school shootings....as these examples show....

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------

The document said the boy would “lay low” in Catterick before murdering his ex-girlfriend’s parents and stealing her father’s guns, the court heard.

“I’ll make some explosives then well find a way back to Northallerton and well begin our assault on that f****** school,” it continued

----

"This was no teenage fantasy; it was real,” he added. “They intended a re-enactment of the Columbine High School Massacre although fortunately, in the result, they were stopped before their plans were put into action.”

.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the updat, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?


-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'


15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.

=======




'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



What kept this from becoming a mass shooting?



Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

We have 4x more homicides that britain.

So? We have lower levels of gun murder after more Americans own and carry guns....they have more gun crime after they banned and confiscated guns.... you have to hide behind their gun murder rate because you know it was always low...even when they had access to guns...meaning their gun control laws had nothing to do with their gun murder rate.....

Violent crime has been higher the last few years as carry has increased...

So it has nothing to do with millions of unknowns abiding in our nation, coming from 3rd. world cesspools bringing in their pipeline of drugs & criminality furthering the billion dollar 'cottage industry' of the cartels... When this happens, the dregs of our own citizenry gets swept up in it, furthering the criminal element. We now have a nation where there is limited personal accountability engendered by the obscurity of knowing who is here in the first place.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I say it'd be a good idea to allow some teachers to arm themselves, but definitely not most of them.

 

[Brain357]

Even the most trained accidentally shoot people.
Gun range instructor accidentally shoots man during training, police say

 

[Brain357]

The teacher, Dennis Alexander, who is also a city councilman in Seaside, Calif., was showing the students a gun on Tuesday during his advanced public safety class at Seaside High School when the gun accidentally went off, Marci McFadden, a spokeswoman for the Monterey Peninsula Unified School District, said in a phone interview on Wednesday.

Teacher’s Gun Is Accidentally Fired During Public Safety Class, Injuring 3

 

[Brain357]

What if the armed teacher is the one who loses it?

Georgia teacher convicted for shooting gun in empty classroom

 

[KissMy]

Columbine had armed officers at the school who shot at the gunmen, but it changed nothing. More guns means more shootings. Dancing FBI agent shoots innocent man.

 

[Sahba]

TEACHERS don't want to arm teachers and neither do students.
Emma probably could have made her point better.
She's young and smart - give her time.

Six minutes and twenty seconds - Sometimes silence is more powerful than words

I hate to call a spade a spade in this situation BUT students are 'brains full of mush' yet to be fully matured through life experience and independent thought. They are sponges, largely influenced by the ideological factors in their lives via. teachers, parents, and societal propaganda showered down on them from the bastions of a partisanly liberal media. Students are to be protected and sheltered NOT upheld as sage definers of reality and efficacious reform.

 

[Windparadox]

I say it'd be a good idea to allow some teachers to arm themselves, but definitely not most of them.

`
How about commercial pilots? "300 guns used in the federally administered program to arm commercial airline pilots were lost in one 60 day period in 2004 according to pilot organizations."