Arminian Calvinist Universalist: Right ways to teach these vs Wrong ways inconsistent with the Bible

[PostmodernProph]

So all it takes to receive Divine Grace and healing is to forgive and ask to receive.
.

is that not a single path?..........

Yes that's what I'm saying it is universal .

an absurdity then.....you are a "universalist" who doesn't believe in universalism.......I have a similar problem....blue is my favorite color so long as it is red........

 

[emilynghiem]

They only work against if you reject Christ.
In Buddhism as with any other group, it depends on the person if they reject Christ
and I do not.

If other Buddhists reject Christ, you are right, they will teach this wrong

but why do you call yourself a universalist if you believe one must accept Christ to be saved......that is not the expected conclusion of universalism.....l

Yes, I had to drop the term Universal Salvation because that's already been taken and ruined to mean something else.

I mean that all souls will go through the process of Salvation as in the Bible.

People have to understand what the choices are, and the consequences,
in order to be fully responsible (in order to be held accountable), and
every person I met once they understood, then of course they choose the path that is going to solve problems!
So it is natural to seek God; and the point is to REMOVE any fear ignorance misunderstanding
or unforgiven conflict that would otherwise skew someone's judgment not to choose correctly.
and God's love and grace is so powerful it cast out those types of fears, so people can see and choose clearly.

What I find problematic when people are convinced and more
more concerned that some will go to hell, is they start
"nitpicking on what rules to judge people by" to determine this. That's not the purpose.
Only God decides. The whole point is to AVOID suffering by AVOIDING that which leads that direction.

I find it more compelling to explain to people
that just because you are spiritually saved and owe no debt for this free gift,
doesn't mean you get a free ride for physical debts and damages you incur to your neighbor or society.

Whatever wrongs you commit, if restitution is owed by natural laws,
then you are still bound by those. By spiritual laws grace is free and forgiveness means no conditions there.

So that to me is more motivation not to be irresponsible with actions,
but to understand you are running a tab, and every debt every dime will be paid back

 

[emilynghiem]

So all it takes to receive Divine Grace and healing is to forgive and ask to receive.
.

is that not a single path?..........

Yes that's what I'm saying it is universal .

an absurdity then.....you are a "universalist" who doesn't believe in universalism.......I have a similar problem....blue is my favorite color so long as it is red........

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

What I DIDN'T agree to was whoever "declared" that Universalism
meant to reject Christ, reject the teachings in the Bible on hell and/or conflict with those.

Since "certain people" couldn't seem to let go of THAT definition of "Universal Salvation" I had to drop it.

So now I have to use different terms to describe it so it ISN'T confused
with that other stuff.

Sad, because Universal Salvation should be used to mean the right way not the wrong way.

I think whoever comes up with the right way to prove math work or use science correctly
should get to use those math/science terms, and not let the wrong teachings use them.
Sounds backwards to me, but I didn't make up that rule that you couldn't
teach Universal Salvation a different way that IS actually consistent with Christianity.
I thought that is the only way it SHOULD be taught is consistent with all other ways of teaching things
including Christianity and the Bible.

 

[emilynghiem]

The point is to save all people.

but do you recognize that there are some who reject that salvation?.......

Yes of course during the process
but I'm saying that once everyone can see and understand
the choices, the consequences and causes of problems,
of course we will all choose what liberates us from suffering and pain.

but this has not proved to be true.....people have been making bad choices for a very long time......

And there are REASONS for those bad choices which can all be corrected.
* fear of the unknown
* fear of change, loss of control to outside influence or authority
* fear of conflict or confrontation

usually some form of fear or unforgiveness
causes attachment to emotions or false information
that skews decisions.

and this can be corrected by identifying the source
of fear or unforgiveness and resolving the conflicts.

It takes a process of trial and error, rebuke and correction,
and that's why it's important to perfect the process of
Christians correcting one another in Christ
and even civilians redressing grievances by due process of laws
(which I recommend be done through conflict resolution
and mediation to reach consensus). This would eliminate
errors by resolving conflicts and issues FIRST BEFORE making decisions.

So many errors in judgment can be avoided,
and the ones that can't be, can at least be reduced to safer risks
where people can predict the costs and agree to be responsible for changes if things go wrong.

There will always be some things we cannot control
But c'mon, we can prevent 90% of the garbage going wrong on this planet.

Most of the abuses, crimes, violence and stress causing conflicts and problems
are caused by fear, unforgiveness, ill will that causes division and unfair competition.

And these can be remedied.

In one film it was described as
all the suffering and problems in the world are caused by
* ignorance
* anger
* greed

and the remedy is
* wisdom
* compassion
* generosity

so this can be remedied by teaching by example

(I don't have to go "on and on and on" about any trinity patterns in that
example, and how it was based on the teachings of Buddhism
which again, focuses on meditating on the nature of life and understanding how to
develop greater wisdom and compassion to overcome the cycles of suffering.)

 

[Parture]

Emily, realize you are going to Hell because you admit you will forever reject God of the Bible who says,

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

 

[PostmodernProph]

Yes, I had to drop the term Universal Salvation because that's already been taken and ruined to mean something else.

I mean that all souls will go through the process of Salvation as in the Bible.

you mean all souls except those that refuse to accept it.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

What I DIDN'T agree to was whoever "declared" that Universalism
meant to reject Christ, reject the teachings in the Bible on hell and/or conflict with those.

but that obviously isn't true...all paths do NOT lead to Christ and God.....many, if not most lead in the opposite direction......following a path that leads in the opposite direction is in fact a rejection......

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes, I had to drop the term Universal Salvation because that's already been taken and ruined to mean something else.

I mean that all souls will go through the process of Salvation as in the Bible.

you mean all souls except those that refuse to accept it.....

And what I emphasize is I believe that ALL souls will come to accept it.

In order to be held responsible, people must have understanding and not be mentally
ill incompetent or ignorant.

What I have found is once these factors are removed,
people naturally accept and are compelled to accept, so there is no more resistance.

The resistance comes from fear which can be removed,
misunderstanding and ignorance which can be corrected,
and the worst is Unforgiveness which not even God can change
but the person must choose to ask help to remove this if they cannot forgive freely on their own.

The worst barrier I have found is unforgiveness.

You can see the difference even here:
with you and me at least FORGIVING our differences, we can work out the rest.

But with me and Parture, if there is not forgiveness between us,
we will go round and round in endless circles and the
spirit of condemnation has no end.

So even here we demonstrate that difference.

Now despite the barriers between me and Parture
that he cannot forgive until he sees ALL THINGS CORRECTED,
that will probably take a global rebuke online for all people to witness
before he lets go of this bee in his bonnet he has.

So maybe that is God's plan.

To use this barrier between us as Christians to compel
a public rebuke and bring out ALL THESE ISSUES
into the light to be reviews and corrected in the spirit of Christ
and God's truth to be established.

So this way, if we can even resolve the issues
causing Unforgiveness and division with Parture,
then all else can be corrected that otherwise
prevents people from understanding the steps toward salvation.

Again what I've found
once people Understand the steps, they naturally take them.
Nobody wants to suffer, but there is so much fear unforgiveness
and confusion, they avoid change. So when we remove those
factors, people accept freely without fear and barriers in the way.

That's why I believe salvation will eventually include all people.
And as we join in prayer to save all other souls over time,
then Christ Jesus reaches all, and if it REALLY is God's will
that not a soul be lost, then God will save all souls if that is the plan.

I believe it is, but since it is not specifically stated in the Bible,
it is open to interpretation and left to God to decide.

Either way, we can choose to stick to where we AGREE
and keep following the steps toward salvation all people
AGREE are good, and that is all we can do anyway to help as many poeple as possible.

 

[emilynghiem]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

What I DIDN'T agree to was whoever "declared" that Universalism
meant to reject Christ, reject the teachings in the Bible on hell and/or conflict with those.

but that obviously isn't true...all paths do NOT lead to Christ and God.....many, if not most lead in the opposite direction......following a path that leads in the opposite direction is in fact a rejection......

rejection is caused by fear, unforgiveness, ignorance which can be corrected.
So once you remove that
then people can follow their paths correctly and not reject Christ God or truth.

The path of Buddhism does teach to refrain from false speech, false beliefs, views, etc.
To seek the right understanding, wisdom awareness etc.
and warns about attachment to material thinking and karma that skews one's judgment.

So by meditating and identifying the causes of errors,
the point is to remove and correct these.

So if Buddhist meditation is used CORRECTLY it helps with the path.
Many Christians have used Buddhist meditation to help them be better Christians.
It complements and assists the faith when used as a tool properly.

Christian prayer is like talking with God
and Buddhist meditation is teaching the mind to listen to God's wisdom in response to questions.

"Be still and know that I am God"
it is teaching to identify sources of fear, anger and greed from false desires
inside ourselves so we agree to address these, not let these skew our judgment,
and not project onto others to cause suffering.

Buddhism is supposed to complement Christianity, not reject or conflict with it.

If that happens, something is wrong, it causes suffering
so that cannot be right. The point of Buddhism is to be aware of
causes of suffering so we AVOID and we eliminate/correct those.

We should NOT cling to divisive thinking or rejection that causes suffering.
This shows a lack of understanding, and shows there is FEAR so that isn't perfect.

 

[September]

You are the most positive thinking person here, Emily.

You have absorbed wisdom, lessons, and inspiration from other religions while retaining your devotion to Christ. You are not hateful and spiteful to those who you do not agree with you spiritually. You do not leap at the oppurtunity to tell people they are going to Hell.

It seems you stand as an example to all Christians.

​

 

[Parture]

Buddhists are atheists. Christians are theists. Buddhists are going to Hell with Emily. Since Emily will forever reject Jesus as her Lord and Savior, the Bible says she is going to Hell. Trying to change the word of God exposes you.

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3.36).

The wrath of God remains on Emily for eternity. She rejects God's forgiveness Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the world that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

My prayer for the readers here not to be led astray from the universalist Emily. She is Satanic!

The salvation in Christ is particular to Him alone; no other name under heaven can one be saved.

Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. Hell is the consequence of rejecting the gospel. If Hell is not mentioned as the consequence for rejecting Jesus there is no need to be saved, so don't be deceived Emily. She is Satanic. She is antichrist. She is leading you to her false Christ she created for her selfish purposes.

Jesus said as He would be accused of being hateful, so will His apostles who were killed for their testimony. I hope Emily doesn't kill me and only just tries to get me banned as before.

 

[Parture]

You are the most positive thinking person here, Emily.

You have absorbed wisdom, lessons, and inspiration from other religions while retaining your devotion to Christ. You are not hateful and spiteful to those who you do not agree with you spiritually. You do not leap at the oppurtunity to tell people they are going to Hell.

It seems you stand as an example to all Christians.

​

Buddhists are atheists. Christians are theists. Buddhists are going to Hell with Emily. Since Emily will forever reject Jesus as her Lord and Savior, the Bible says she is going to Hell. Trying to change the word of God exposes you.

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3.36).

The wrath of God remains on Emily for eternity. She rejects God's forgiveness Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the world that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

My prayer for the readers here not to be led astray from the universalist Emily. She is Satanic!

The salvation in Christ is particular to Him alone; no other name under heaven can one be saved.

Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone. Hell is the consequence of rejecting the gospel. If Hell is not mentioned as the consequence for rejecting Jesus there is no need to be saved, so don't be deceived Emily. She is Satanic. She is antichrist. She is leading you to her false Christ she created for her selfish purposes.

Jesus said as He would be accused of being hateful, so will His apostles who were killed for their testimony. I hope Emily doesn't kill me and only just tries to get me banned as before.

 

[September]

Buddhists are atheists. Christians are theists. Buddhists are going to Hell with Emily. Since Emily will forever reject Jesus as her Lord and Savior, the Bible says she is going to Hell. Trying to change the word of God exposes you.

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3.36).

The wrath of God remains on Emily for eternity. She rejects God's forgiveness Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the world that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

My prayer for the readers here not to be led astray from the universalist Emily. She is Satanic!

The salvation in Christ is particular to Him alone; no other name under heaven can one be saved.

This obsession with who is saved and who is not leads to more hate than it does love.

And there are many forms of Buddhism. Many Buddhists are not atheistic.

Just chill. You needn't be so against people who's religious views differ from your own.

​

 

[Dajjal]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

I have not read much of your writings because there is so much of it, but I entirely agree with the above.
With the provision that we reincarnate thousands of times until all karma is paid. Unfortunately that may be a very long time, because if everyone on earth suddenly started living harmlessly as the Buddha taught, we would still have endless suffering lives in front of us as a species before we have settled all the bad actions we have made. On the positive side some would say it is not the reaching enlightenment that is so wonderful, it is the journey of life we are all on that is the true gift God has given us.

 

[Parture]

Buddhists are atheists. Christians are theists. Buddhists are going to Hell with Emily. Since Emily will forever reject Jesus as her Lord and Savior, the Bible says she is going to Hell. Trying to change the word of God exposes you.

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3.36).

The wrath of God remains on Emily for eternity. She rejects God's forgiveness Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of the world that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

My prayer for the readers here not to be led astray from the universalist Emily. She is Satanic!

The salvation in Christ is particular to Him alone; no other name under heaven can one be saved.

This obsession with who is saved and who is not leads to more hate than it does love.

And there are many forms of Buddhism. Many Buddhists are not atheistic.

Just chill. You needn't be so against people who's religious views differ from your own.

​

There is great joy in breaking bread with believers. There would be no joy in breaking bread with a non-believer who is obsessed with rejecting God.

The Buddhists that you claim are not atheists, but theists, are no less unsaved than atheist Buddhists, for they reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. In Buddhism they teach shutting your mind down like a zombie in mantras (which is works based faith), but God wants you to use your senses to deal with life. Satan wants you to shut your mind down to control you as he controls you.

All other religions are works based faiths, but in Christianity no amount of work could lead you to salvation, because realistically God is infinitely greater than you and no such methods would work. So God enters His creation to pay the penalty. That's the only solution to your sin problem.

There is only one way to be saved in Christ, for only in Christianity does God enter His creation to pay the ransom. No other faith has this love, forgiveness, authority and power. This is how you can be confident that God's redemptive design is 37 books of the OT and 29 books of the NT.

Free will is not truly free if you don't have this free choice to reject Jesus, so you are going to Hell. Chill out. If this is what you want, this is what you want. So be it.

 

[Parture]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

I have not read much of your writings because there is so much of it, but I entirely agree with the above.
With the provision that we reincarnate thousands of times until all karma is paid. Unfortunately that may be a very long time, because if everyone on earth suddenly started living harmlessly as the Buddha taught, we would still have endless suffering lives in front of us as a species before we have settled all the bad actions we have made. On the positive side some would say it is not the reaching enlightenment that is so wonderful, it is the journey of life we are all on that is the true gift God has given us.

Reincarnation is false because it is unrighteous to put the burden of your salvation on you turning into a frog then if you are good frog you can be a human again. Moreover, this life you live now is more than enough time to decide your eternal future. In fact, almost nobody ever gives their life to Christ past the age of 40 since they have long since made up their mind.

Nobody knows all the wonderful things God has planned for those who love Him. How you live this life determines where you exist for in eternity either Heaven or Hell. Most people such as yourself are going to Hell.

What you will find in the future is that even a people by historical standards that seem quite good and do less apparent bad things, they still reject Christ which is the ultimate sin of remaining unforgiven in God's eyes and choosing to be eternally separated from Him. This is free choice enacted for those who want to be eternally separated from God.

 

[emilynghiem]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

I have not read much of your writings because there is so much of it, but I entirely agree with the above.
With the provision that we reincarnate thousands of times until all karma is paid. Unfortunately that may be a very long time, because if everyone on earth suddenly started living harmlessly as the Buddha taught, we would still have endless suffering lives in front of us as a species before we have settled all the bad actions we have made. On the positive side some would say it is not the reaching enlightenment that is so wonderful, it is the journey of life we are all on that is the true gift God has given us.

Hi Dajjal
I do agree that the Buddhists and maybe even the Arminians/Calvinists
have explanations in their teachings that might describe how the Salvation process works in steps.

With the Buddhists, one monk explained it that the
KARMA reincarnates, not the people, which aligns with Christian teachings of sins
and generational curses that affect future generations due to sins of the fathers.
If KARMA is explained as reincarnating then even Christians can understand it as sin,
but the idea of people reincarnating conflicts with the concept of souls being unique and only
going through the process once. So this needs more work to clarify so it is
clear we are talking about the same process, not causing confusion or conflicts.

If we work around our language differences,
we might see we are talking about the same process
of "cleansing out" the sins or karma, conditions from the past that repeat in a vicious cycle
if these are not "forgiven and resolved" (Christians focus on the "forgiveness" part
to restore the spirit, but secular and natural laws focus on correction and restitution for debts
and damages in the physical world which are a consequence of taking responsibility.
These two levels are not to be confused with each other, but both are involved in restoring peace and justice.)

Since Jesus sacrifice and redemption (and later stages of Judgment etc.) represent
the spiritual process of addressing and resolving the COLLECTIVE sins of humanity,
the way the Buddhists and Christians address healing of generational sins, karma and curses,
I believe this is our part of that process to understand and to work with.

For there to be salvation even for people who came before us,
then it makes sense that all the unforgiven sins and unresolved conflicts and karma
that pass down to us need to be absolved.

So awareness of where these sins or karma came from
help us to forgive and resolve them so they do not repeat.

Thanks and I appreciate your input and comments!

 

[emilynghiem]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

I have not read much of your writings because there is so much of it, but I entirely agree with the above.
With the provision that we reincarnate thousands of times until all karma is paid. Unfortunately that may be a very long time, because if everyone on earth suddenly started living harmlessly as the Buddha taught, we would still have endless suffering lives in front of us as a species before we have settled all the bad actions we have made. On the positive side some would say it is not the reaching enlightenment that is so wonderful, it is the journey of life we are all on that is the true gift God has given us.

Reincarnation is false because it is unrighteous to put the burden of your salvation on you turning into a frog then if you are good frog you can be a human again. Moreover, this life you live now is more than enough time to decide your eternal future. In fact, almost nobody ever gives their life to Christ past the age of 40 since they have long since made up their mind.

Nobody knows all the wonderful things God has planned for those who love Him. How you live this life determines where you exist for in eternity either Heaven or Hell. Most people such as yourself are going to Hell.

What you will find in the future is that even a people by historical standards that seem quite good and do less apparent bad things, they still reject Christ which is the ultimate sin of remaining unforgiven in God's eyes and choosing to be eternally separated from Him. This is free choice enacted for those who want to be eternally separated from God.

Hi Parture
if there is unforgiveness, then the sins of the father can be revisited on the sons.

The Christians who work with healing "generational curse" have found that
some people's blockages were caused by OCCULT or dark magic/druid practices
in their family lines, so this had to be renounced and removed before the sickness could be cured naturally.

Christians call this generational sins or curses, but Buddhists call it karma.

Both serve as Witnesses to the same process affecting humanity.

See Dr. Francis MacNutt's book on HEALING on the unique authority of Christ Jesus to cast out demons.
Also Dr. Scott Beck who didn't believe this worked, until he used it to cure two demonically sick Schizophrenic patients
"Glimpses of the Devil"

Science can prove this is real.
So Buddhism, Christianity and Science can all show this process
of identifying past sins that reincarnate in future generations
and require forgiveness and healing in Christ Jesus to cast out so natural health is restored.

SEE
Exodus 34:7 - Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

Numbers 14:18 - The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation].

 

[Parture]

I believe all paths lead to Christ and God
and all souls will be included in Salvation.

I have not read much of your writings because there is so much of it, but I entirely agree with the above.
With the provision that we reincarnate thousands of times until all karma is paid. Unfortunately that may be a very long time, because if everyone on earth suddenly started living harmlessly as the Buddha taught, we would still have endless suffering lives in front of us as a species before we have settled all the bad actions we have made. On the positive side some would say it is not the reaching enlightenment that is so wonderful, it is the journey of life we are all on that is the true gift God has given us.

Reincarnation is false because it is unrighteous to put the burden of your salvation on you turning into a frog then if you are good frog you can be a human again. Moreover, this life you live now is more than enough time to decide your eternal future. In fact, almost nobody ever gives their life to Christ past the age of 40 since they have long since made up their mind.

Nobody knows all the wonderful things God has planned for those who love Him. How you live this life determines where you exist for in eternity either Heaven or Hell. Most people such as yourself are going to Hell.

What you will find in the future is that even a people by historical standards that seem quite good and do less apparent bad things, they still reject Christ which is the ultimate sin of remaining unforgiven in God's eyes and choosing to be eternally separated from Him. This is free choice enacted for those who want to be eternally separated from God.

Hi Parture
if there is unforgiveness, then the sins of the father can be revisited on the sons.

The Christians who work with healing "generational curse" have found that
some people's blockages were caused by OCCULT or dark magic/druid practices
in their family lines, so this had to be renounced and removed before the sickness could be cured naturally.

Christians call this generational sins or curses, but Buddhists call it karma.

Both serve as Witnesses to the same process affecting humanity.

See Dr. Francis MacNutt's book on HEALING on the unique authority of Christ Jesus to cast out demons.
Also Dr. Scott Beck who didn't believe this worked, until he used it to cure two demonically sick Schizophrenic patients
"Glimpses of the Devil"

Science can prove this is real.
So Buddhism, Christianity and Science can all show this process
of identifying past sins that reincarnate in future generations
and require forgiveness and healing in Christ Jesus to cast out so natural health is restored.

Emily, the reason you are going to Hell is because you are a universalist. It is no more complicated than that. You have rejected the God who eternally separates you from Him. So He has no choice but to keep you in Hell for eternity. The irony is you actually lock yourself in Hell from the inside for forever, because you will never repent of your universalist god.

 

[Dajjal]

Reincarnation is false because it is unrighteous to put the burden of your salvation on you turning into a frog then if you are good frog you can be a human again. Moreover, this life you live now is more than enough time to decide your eternal future. In fact, almost nobody ever gives their life to Christ past the age of 40 since they have long since made up their mind.

Nobody knows all the wonderful things God has planned for those who love Him. How you live this life determines where you exist for in eternity either Heaven or Hell. Most people such as yourself are going to Hell.

What you will find in the future is that even a people by historical standards that seem quite good and do less apparent bad things, they still reject Christ which is the ultimate sin of remaining unforgiven in God's eyes and choosing to be eternally separated from Him. This is free choice enacted for those who want to be eternally separated from God.

The Hindus believe that we can reincarnate as animals but the spirit guides I have heard give trance lectures say other wise. They say humans are on a long path of evolution as a species. We do not come back as animals. They also say that animals do not become human but continue to perfection in their own evolutionary path.

To me the idea that one life is enough to be judged is totally false. It is a system that would have injustice built into it. What possible equality could there be in a soul that dies as a baby and the soul of Winston Churchill?
They say he looked like a baby but he was a giant minded man who withstood incredible pressure to win the war.
If Churchill and a baby met in the after life the baby would still be entirely unequal to him no matter how long they spent in heaven. Your heaven would be a kind of hell to the soul of that baby.

As for the rest of your post I see it as brain washed bible thumping.