Ask a cop a question...

[SFC Ollie]

The guy was an asshole looking for a confrontation. He's lucky he only got tazzed. And the city never should have settled shit with him.....

 

[Sunshine]

I never cease to be amazed at how many people there are who claim to have fought to defend the Constitutionfrom all enemies foreign and domest; yet they loathe the Constitution to the depths of their being.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

He didn't prevail in court. They settled out of court. Let's see what happens in his suit against the county before you claim the driver has been vindicated. It's not relevant because you obviously don't understand basic civil procedure. I don't claim that the police always act properly. I just don't think they erred on this one.

I understand civil (and criminal) procedure a lot better than you might think. And what I'm telling you here and now is the City of Bountiful, which administers the police who tasered and arrested Bruce Harper, would not have settled a civil suit predicated on excessive force if there were valid criminal charges pending against Harper. Because to do so would be a tacit admission of Harper's innocence.

You may rest assured that any criminal charges against Bruce Harper have been dismissed.

What category of law does your wife practice?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

get tazed.

YouTube - ‪Federal Lawsuit after Guy Tasered 6 Times for not Complying after Routine Traffic Stop‬‏

Watch the statists line up to justify this get getting tazed for not following orders.

Guess what, police do not have the power to give orders, all they have the power to do is make requests.

Some back story and thoughtful commentary is found here.

Simple Justice: The First Rule of Policing: A Demonstration

I tend to agree with the idea that the police need to protect themselves first, but this had obviously reached the point where the guy was not a danger to anyone, and there was no need to use force to walk away from the encounter safely. The cop could simply have explained to the otherwise law abiding citizen that he was pulled over because his front license was crooked. Instead he shot him with a deadly weapon.

The cop was justified.

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

2) The driver was coming up to the cop

3) The cop repeated numerous times what the driver should do

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

1. Can you site a law anywhere that says that disobeying a police officer is illegal? That makes an order to get back into your car illegal?
2. The driver was unarmed.
3. Repeating illegal orders do not make them legal.
4. Which is why he should answer the question instead of excalating the confrontation.
5. Should have does not make it illegal for him to not do it.

 

[MikeK]

The cop was justified.

Who said so?

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

The keyword in that paragraph is lawful. If what happened to Bruce Harper was in fact lawful you may rest assured the City of Bountiful would not have offered and paid Harper a $45k settlement out of civil court.

2) The driver was coming up to the cop

So what?

3) The cop repeated numerous times what the driver should do

So what?

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

And the driver doesn't know why the cop pulled him over. The driver, who had done absolutely nothing wrong, wasn't demanding that the cop stay in his car. He was simply demanding to be told why aggressive police action was taken against him.

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

Who said so (beside you)?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The cop was justified.

Who said so?

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

The keyword in that paragraph is lawful. If what happened to Bruce Harper was in fact lawful you may rest assured the City of Bountiful would not have offered and paid Harper a $45k settlement out of civil court.


So what?


So what?

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

And the driver doesn't know why the cop pulled him over. The driver, who had done absolutely nothing wrong, wasn't demanding that the cop stay in his car. He was simply demanding to be told why aggressive police action was taken against him.

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

Who said so (beside you)?

You have to remember ALL cops are good and never would illegaly stop anyone and no cop has ever killed anyone just for chits and grins.

 

[jillian]

You have to remember ALL cops are good and never would illegaly stop anyone and no cop has ever killed anyone just for chits and grins.

i don't think anyone's saying that.

but if i were a cop and someone got out of their car with their hands in their pocket and created a situation that endangered my life, i sure wouldn't say 'okie dokey'.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How many times has someone been arrested for impersonating a police officer? Flash a badge have a blue light? It's dark and if I had not done anything I may have done the same thing the victim did.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The cop was justified.

Who said so?

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

The keyword in that paragraph is lawful. If what happened to Bruce Harper was in fact lawful you may rest assured the City of Bountiful would not have offered and paid Harper a $45k settlement out of civil court.


So what?


So what?

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

And the driver doesn't know why the cop pulled him over. The driver, who had done absolutely nothing wrong, wasn't demanding that the cop stay in his car. He was simply demanding to be told why aggressive police action was taken against him.

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

Who said so (beside you)?

Because if he would have remained in his car he would have been told why he was stopped and probably sent on his way after promising to fix the problem.

He was an ass wanting trouble.

 

[jillian]

How many times has someone been arrested for impersonating a police officer? Flash a badge have a blue light? It's dark and if I had not done anything I may have done the same thing the victim did.

how many times are cops murdered in traffic stops?

getting tased for acting in a threatening manner toward a police officer does not make someone a victim.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You have to remember ALL cops are good and never would illegaly stop anyone and no cop has ever killed anyone just for chits and grins.

i don't think anyone's saying that.

but if i were a cop and someone got out of their car with their hands in their pocket and created a situation that endangered my life, i sure wouldn't say 'okie dokey'.

CMike said

The cop was justified.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Besides we all know that a cop making a traffic stop isn't dangerous....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxV4L_ng4qY]YouTube - ‪Police Dashcam - Kehoe Brothers Wilmington, Ohio Shooting‬‏[/ame]

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Timeline of Marcus Jackson Case
In one incident, two women were in one car and allegedly stopped by Jackson. In another incident, one woman was allegedly assaulted during a domestic violence complaint call.

Nov. 2: A woman driving her car is stopped by Jackson – she will later allegedly be pulled over by him again on Dec. 29. She reports to police that an officer fondled her during a search that seems to be improper.
Timeline of Marcus Jackson Case - WBTV 3 News, Weather, Sports, and Traffic for Charlotte, NC-

 

[CMike]

get tazed.

YouTube - ‪Federal Lawsuit after Guy Tasered 6 Times for not Complying after Routine Traffic Stop‬‏

Watch the statists line up to justify this get getting tazed for not following orders.

Guess what, police do not have the power to give orders, all they have the power to do is make requests.

Some back story and thoughtful commentary is found here.

Simple Justice: The First Rule of Policing: A Demonstration

I tend to agree with the idea that the police need to protect themselves first, but this had obviously reached the point where the guy was not a danger to anyone, and there was no need to use force to walk away from the encounter safely. The cop could simply have explained to the otherwise law abiding citizen that he was pulled over because his front license was crooked. Instead he shot him with a deadly weapon.

The cop was justified.

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

2) The driver was coming up to the cop

3) The cop repeated numerous times what the driver should do

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

1. Can you site a law anywhere that says that disobeying a police officer is illegal? That makes an order to get back into your car illegal?
2. The driver was unarmed.
3. Repeating illegal orders do not make them legal.
4. Which is why he should answer the question instead of excalating the confrontation.
5. Should have does not make it illegal for him to not do it.

Failure to obey a police order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Failure to obey a police officer, or failure to obey a police order, is typically a misdemeanor. In Washington, DC, this law is utilized primarily for purposes of ensuring that officers tasked with directing traffic have the authority to direct motorists and pedestrians in a proper and safe manner.[1]


How does the police officer know that the driver is unarmed?

The orders were legal

 

[CMike]

This link is a bit different, but kind of similar.

In this case the driver shot and killed the police officer at a traffic stop.


Routine Traffic Stop Goes Horribly Wrong Video

 

[CMike]

The cop was justified.

Who said so?

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

The keyword in that paragraph is lawful. If what happened to Bruce Harper was in fact lawful you may rest assured the City of Bountiful would not have offered and paid Harper a $45k settlement out of civil court.


So what?


So what?

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

And the driver doesn't know why the cop pulled him over. The driver, who had done absolutely nothing wrong, wasn't demanding that the cop stay in his car. He was simply demanding to be told why aggressive police action was taken against him.

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

Who said so (beside you)?

It's really very simple.

The driver failed to obey a lawful order after numerous commands to do so.

The police officer even said he would taz him if he didn't comply.

The cop was completely justified.

He doesn't know if the driver is armed or not. He doesn't know what the driver will do.

 

[tigerbob]

get tazed.

YouTube - ‪Federal Lawsuit after Guy Tasered 6 Times for not Complying after Routine Traffic Stop‬‏

Watch the statists line up to justify this get getting tazed for not following orders.

Guess what, police do not have the power to give orders, all they have the power to do is make requests.

Some back story and thoughtful commentary is found here.

Simple Justice: The First Rule of Policing: A Demonstration

I tend to agree with the idea that the police need to protect themselves first, but this had obviously reached the point where the guy was not a danger to anyone, and there was no need to use force to walk away from the encounter safely.The cop could simply have explained to the otherwise law abiding citizen that he was pulled over because his front license was crooked. Instead he shot him with a deadly weapon.

I disagree on almost every count. Almost.

The cop didn't know why the guy got out of his car, why he had his hand in his pocket, why he refused to comply with repeated instructions, or why he insisted on advancing towards the officer.

I appreciate that the appearance with the benefit of hindsight is that the guy was just pissed that he'd been stopped and wanted to know why. But it is not unknown for a guy in this kind of position to suddenly attack an officer. I've seen the videos. So have you.

The officer doesn't have hindsight. He has to react as the situation unfolds. The guy should have stayed in his car, should have turned around, should have put his hands on his head. He did none of those because he was pissed off and his sense of self-righteousness overwhelmed him common sense.

What I think stuns me more than anything is that he was compensated. What kind of message does that send? What's the cop supposed to do? Call for backup for a routine traffic stop?

The only area where I have some sympathy is that the cop could have simply kept the taser pointed at the guy until the guy eventually calmed down and started listening. That could have taken another minute, or it could have taken an hour. Or longer. What a massive waste of police time. However, and this is where I have a slight issue, a taser should never be used just to save time. I'm not saying it was, but that could be one possible response to my earlier observation about it being a waste of time.

Either way, 95% of the fault lies with the guy who was stopped.

 

[CMike]

I have a concealed pistol license.

This is my plan for what to do when getting stopped when carrying.

My hands are on the wheel with dome lights on if dark.

Officer before we start I just want to say I have a concealed pistol license and I am carrying.

My wallet is in my left pants pocket and my firearm is on my right hip.

What do you want me to do?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The cop was justified.

1) Disobeying a lawful order from a cop is a crime. They are not suggestions.

2) The driver was coming up to the cop

3) The cop repeated numerous times what the driver should do

4) The cop doesn't know what the driver will do

5) What the driver should have done is wait in the car with his hands on the wheel

1. Can you site a law anywhere that says that disobeying a police officer is illegal? That makes an order to get back into your car illegal?
2. The driver was unarmed.
3. Repeating illegal orders do not make them legal.
4. Which is why he should answer the question instead of excalating the confrontation.
5. Should have does not make it illegal for him to not do it.

Failure to obey a police order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Failure to obey a police officer, or failure to obey a police order, is typically a misdemeanor. In Washington, DC, this law is utilized primarily for purposes of ensuring that officers tasked with directing traffic have the authority to direct motorists and pedestrians in a proper and safe manner.[1]


How does the police officer know that the driver is unarmed?

The orders were legal

Washington DC is not Utah

 

[Quantum Windbag]

get tazed.

YouTube - ‪Federal Lawsuit after Guy Tasered 6 Times for not Complying after Routine Traffic Stop‬‏

Watch the statists line up to justify this get getting tazed for not following orders.

Guess what, police do not have the power to give orders, all they have the power to do is make requests.

Some back story and thoughtful commentary is found here.

Simple Justice: The First Rule of Policing: A Demonstration

I tend to agree with the idea that the police need to protect themselves first, but this had obviously reached the point where the guy was not a danger to anyone, and there was no need to use force to walk away from the encounter safely.The cop could simply have explained to the otherwise law abiding citizen that he was pulled over because his front license was crooked. Instead he shot him with a deadly weapon.

I disagree on almost every count. Almost.

The cop didn't know why the guy got out of his car, why he had his hand in his pocket, why he refused to comply with repeated instructions, or why he insisted on advancing towards the officer.

I appreciate that the appearance with the benefit of hindsight is that the guy was just pissed that he'd been stopped and wanted to know why. But it is not unknown for a guy in this kind of position to suddenly attack an officer. I've seen the videos. So have you.

The officer doesn't have hindsight. He has to react as the situation unfolds. The guy should have stayed in his car, should have turned around, should have put his hands on his head. He did none of those because he was pissed off and his sense of self-righteousness overwhelmed him common sense.

What I think stuns me more than anything is that he was compensated. What kind of message does that send? What's the cop supposed to do? Call for backup for a routine traffic stop?

The only area where I have some sympathy is that the cop could have simply kept the taser pointed at the guy until the guy eventually calmed down and started listening. That could have taken another minute, or it could have taken an hour. Or longer. What a massive waste of police time. However, and this is where I have a slight issue, a taser should never be used just to save time. I'm not saying it was, but that could be one possible response to my earlier observation about it being a waste of time.

Either way, 95% of the fault lies with the guy who was stopped.

I understand about officer safety, I really do, That does not excuse excessive use of force.