Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

[ding]

Does space or time end? News to me if you answer "Yes". If space and time are infinite, or nearly so, billions of light years and billions of year is a very long time, EVERYTHING will be created. I see nothing special, from the universe's point of view, about intelligence.

Space and time ends in the sense that it has a boundary (even though space and time is curved and you can therefore never reach its boundary). Space and time doesn't end in the sense that it continues to expand in size. But everything was created as space and time had a beginning. If you see nothing special about space and time popping into existence hardwired to produce intelligence, I'm afraid I can't help you but suffice it to say I do see something special in that. Especially since I believe it is so improbable - given everything I know - that it can only be intentionally so.

 

[forkup]

If you can't force yourself to have a reasonable perception of God (i.e. one that views God in the best possible light) then you have already poisoned the well so to speak and your conclusions shouldn't be a surprise.

I'm not concluding anything. That's the whole point. Without sufficient information the only conclusion you can draw is, "I don't know."

You conclude "therefore God".

Science has hypothesis for most of the things you claim God. Until those claims are tested they aren't valid as more than guesses. Neither is God.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Reasons I like Trump 231118
prsnrk 231118 Sriltz00001

He {DJT} says a lot of cringy, unpopular, and uncomfortable things. This means he is sincere and genuine. We can trust that he isn’t being fake. That trait is desireable to some personalities and abhorrent to some. I’m always suspect that politeness doubles as phoniness. Some personalities desire politeness so I can see why Trump is undesirable to many in that regard. For me it is a plus. He has faults but we can see them clearly. They aren’t hidden.

Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust 240226
dvng 240216 Sahnbf00119

It seems to me that all religions teach that there are right and wrong ways of existing. That they all teach the value of being virtuous. Why don't you believe the desire for good over evil is innate?

Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust 240221
presonorek Feb’24 Sahnbf: You might have a hard time getting evangelical Christians to advocate for a law that forgives criminals. prsnrk 240221 Sahnbf00603

ding Feb’24 Sahnbf: But the law does forgive criminals. At least the ones that get released from prison, right? 240222 dvng 249221 Sahnbf00608

Secular laws are not about enforcing universal eternal GOD consciousness’s innate morality are they Saint Ding?

Laws, in a secular society, have one purpose, and that is to prevent harm to we the people giving our consent to be governed as a citizenry, and our pursuit of life, property, liberty, independence and happiness.

nfbw 00623

 

[presonorek]

Isn't penitence and penance a part of forgiveness?

Not at all. What Bible verse gave you that idea?

Here we are again.............

 

[Blues Man]

I love how you systematically dismiss all evidence for God without ever considering it.

Wouldn't you have to examine it before dismissing it?

There is no evidence.

There is conjecture.

There is hypothesis.

And I did examine what you apologists call evidence and I find it lacking.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust 240216
ding Feb’24 Sahnbf: “It seems to me that all religions teach that there are right and wrong ways of existing. That they all teach the value of being virtuous. dvng 240216 Sahnbf00119

Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust 240222 Is that regardless, Saint Ding, of whether a religious teaching is based on a revealed religion from an anthropomorphic fatherly figure or a sense that natural religious teachings are gender neutral or lean more toward “material creation” being of the gender that gives birth to all material things including giving birth to our unique one of a kind limited body and mind, in a most loving way?

Can an atheist or rational theist or agnostic, Saint Ding, tap into your innate cosmic goodness? If not, why not?

If we were to be raised by a parent or parents that live goodness by imperfect but well intended example, and teach us to be honest and figure “existence” out when we grow up, we would therefore determine right from wrong by applying TRUTH to all our experiences and observations,

We would learn to reject evil and injustice simply by observing that creation in nature is good regardless of why how and who created it. We can value the experience of being human in good circumstances and bad conditions that are out of our control whether we believe a supernatural creator being exists or “He”dies not. It’s what we do with TRUTH that matters.

Rational theism is devoted to TRUTH and it is inclusive of all Truth with the exception of dogmatically taught, irrational and supernatural “truths” found in revealed religions where faith that the revealed truth supercedes any truth that humans learn on their own.

nfbw 240222 Vahnbf00626 to Sahnbf00119

 

[ding]

I'm not concluding anything. That's the whole point. Without sufficient information the only conclusion you can draw is, "I don't know."

You conclude "therefore God".

Science has hypothesis for most of the things you claim God. Until those claims are tested they aren't valid as more than guesses. Neither is God.

Yes, I conclude God and you conclude you don't know.

 

[ding]

There is no evidence.

There is conjecture.

There is hypothesis.

And I did examine what you apologists call evidence and I find it lacking.

Tons of evidence. You just don't accept it. I do.

 

[GreatestIam]

Who decides what the 'good of the many' is?

Whoever has the decision to make. You, me or anyone.

The good of the one mimics the good of the many.

 

[forkup]

Yes, I conclude God and you conclude you don't know.

I don't know is not a conclusion. It's the lack of one.

But hey if you think both our position are equivalent. Nothing I will say can convince you.

 

[Blues Man]

Tons of evidence. You just don't accept it. I do.

You have lower standards of evidence than I do

 

[alang1216]

Nothing you haven't already heard. So you should be able to understand me now as that is your reason for being here, right? To understand why people who are intellectually inferior to you believe as they do.

Please don't project onto me.

 

[ding]

I don't know is not a conclusion. It's the lack of one.

But hey if you think both our position are equivalent. Nothing I will say can convince you.

I didn't say our positions are equivalent. But don't kid yourself that you saying you don't know isn't what you concluded.

conclusion: the end or finish of an event or process. a judgment or decision reached by reasoning.

 

[ding]

Please don't project onto me.

It is what it is.

 

[ding]

You have lower standards of evidence than I do

I'm sure you believe that to be true.

 

[ding]

Not at all. What Bible verse gave you that idea?

Here we are again.............

I'm not a Westboro Baptist. If you can't see the relationship between forgiveness, penitence and penance, I can't help you.

 

[alang1216]

Space and time ends in the sense that it has a boundary (even though space and time is curved and you can therefore never reach its boundary). Space and time doesn't end in the sense that it continues to expand in size. But everything was created as space and time had a beginning. If you see nothing special about space and time popping into existence hardwired to produce intelligence, I'm afraid I can't help you but suffice it to say I do see something special in that. Especially since I believe it is so improbable - given everything I know - that it can only be intentionally so.

Is space infinite? We asked 5 experts. Here are their detailed responses: Maybe, Yes, Yes, No, No. Your opinion may be just as valid as theirs but it is obviously not universally agreed on.

Intelligence is only one thing the universe has created. How about feathers? Was the universe hardwired to produce feathers? You dismiss feathers because you don't have them but you do have intelligence so your bias is obvious. Do you have any evidence the universe values intelligence more that feathers? There are a lot more creatures with feathers than there are those with intelligence and feathers have been around a lot longer than intelligence.

 

[ding]

Is space infinite? We asked 5 experts. Here are their detailed responses: Maybe, Yes, Yes, No, No. Your opinion may be just as valid as theirs but it is obviously not universally agreed on.

Intelligence is only one thing the universe has created. How about feathers? Was the universe hardwired to produce feathers? You dismiss feathers because you don't have them but you do have intelligence so your bias is obvious. Do you have any evidence the universe values intelligence more that feathers? There are a lot more creatures with feathers than there are those with intelligence and feathers have been around a lot longer than intelligence.

Are you threatened by my beliefs that the universe began and its purpose it to produce intelligence?

 

[ding]

Morals is what people invented (not discovered as some natural law), to regulate the highly complex civilizations we prefer. And as a direct result of those complexities morality will change, and be as relative as can be.

morals are relative

I don't believe morality is subjective.

When did you change your mind?

 

[ding]

If it's a human construct, then it is subjective.

100% correct. Or at least it can be. And it can be anything man says it is.