Atheism Is Not A Religion!!!

[PratchettFan]

I reject your concept of God and I choose not to go to hell. If you think I am going to hell regardless of my choice not to, then it is obviously not my choice.

I am only aware of two possible choices.....you can choose to believe or choose not to believe.....anything other than choosing to believe results in consequences that you choose not to believe in.....I cannot attest that this will help you to avoid those consequences....I would say, with confidence, that if you refuse an eternity with schmucks it is not likely you will get the eternity with schmucks......thus you will get the alternative consequence whatever that might be......

Yes. Which is akin to my holding a gun to your head..... You are free to see it differently but to me the moral issue is quite clear. It is one of the reasons why I have never understood why anyone would be a Christian. But it would be a funny old world if everyone saw things the same way.

odd.....you claim its a gun to your head but say you have no trouble deciding not to believe.....apparently it isn't as frightening a gun as you say.....

In this particular case, you have to believe in the gun and I don't.

then we're at an impasse, as you believe its a gun and I don't.......

You expected agreement? My friend, if I thought for a second I might actually change your basic beliefs I wouldn't engage in any conversation with you. You can take it as a given whatever I might say here is my opinion, unless I present it as a fact and provide hard evidence to back it up. My opinion is no better than yours. If you simply understand what I am trying to get across, that is more than enough. I am fine with you thinking that opinion a load of garbage.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Buddhism is a Religion

But it is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of "lesser" gods who are the source of morality, and that humans owe any duties to any gods. At the same time, though, these scriptures accept the existence of supernatural beings which might be described as gods. Some Buddhists today believe in the existence of such beings and are theists. Others dismiss these beings and are atheists. Since there is nothing about Buddhism which requires belief in gods, atheism in Buddhism is easy to maintain.

The Jain Religion

For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.



Atheism in Confucian & Taoist Religion:

On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Judeo-Christian Religions are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either.


Atheism and religion are often portrayed and treated as polar opposites; although there is a strong correlation between being an atheist and being irreligious, there is no necessary and inherent connection between the two. Atheism is not the same as being irreligious; theism is not the same as being religious. Atheists in the West tend not to belong to any religion, but atheism is quite compatible with religion. If you are Adamant in your beliefs than you have a lot of Faith in your belief and are in effect a religious Atheist

Adapted aboutreligion.com

Austin Cline


Instead of adding your own definition, maybe you should read more, and cherry pick less.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I don't know of any religion that doesn't worship or have a specific spiritual practice, but i suppose what sets atheists apart is not having an organized belief system that is required in order to be considered a religion.

Let me take a different approach. Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

No. One is a cult, and one is a group of lunatics. What's that got to do with atheists?

It has to do with defining religion. The fact that one group is focused on Jesus and the other on aliens really matters? That they acted in exactly the same way makes no difference?

That's ridiculous, because not all atheists believe in aliens. I'm sure there's gotta be a couple out there somewhere, but there is no group. Believing in aliens is also not a religion.

I believe in illegal aliens, is that a religion?

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

 

[PratchettFan]

Let me take a different approach. Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

No. One is a cult, and one is a group of lunatics. What's that got to do with atheists?

It has to do with defining religion. The fact that one group is focused on Jesus and the other on aliens really matters? That they acted in exactly the same way makes no difference?

That's ridiculous, because not all atheists believe in aliens. I'm sure there's gotta be a couple out there somewhere, but there is no group. Believing in aliens is also not a religion.

I believe in illegal aliens, is that a religion?

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Buddhism is a Religion

But it is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of "lesser" gods who are the source of morality, and that humans owe any duties to any gods. At the same time, though, these scriptures accept the existence of supernatural beings which might be described as gods. Some Buddhists today believe in the existence of such beings and are theists. Others dismiss these beings and are atheists. Since there is nothing about Buddhism which requires belief in gods, atheism in Buddhism is easy to maintain.

The Jain Religion

For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.



Atheism in Confucian & Taoist Religion:

On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Judeo-Christian Religions are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either.


Atheism and religion are often portrayed and treated as polar opposites; although there is a strong correlation between being an atheist and being irreligious, there is no necessary and inherent connection between the two. Atheism is not the same as being irreligious; theism is not the same as being religious. Atheists in the West tend not to belong to any religion, but atheism is quite compatible with religion. If you are Adamant in your beliefs than you have a lot of Faith in your belief and are in effect a religious Atheist

Adapted aboutreligion.com

I see, You're just making shit up. Obviously, you can't comprehend what you are reading. This is from your link.

Atheism is Not a Religion, Ideology, Belief System, Philosophy

Many Christians seem to believe that atheism is a religion, but no one with an accurate understanding of both concepts would make such a mistake. Atheism lacks every one of the characteristics of religion. At most, atheism doesn’t explicitly exclude most of them, but the same can be said for almost anything. Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself. They are completely different categories: atheism is the absence of one particular belief while religion is a complex web of traditions and beliefs.

Atheism is Not a Religion Ideology Belief System Philosophy World View or Anything Similar

 

[Carla_Danger]

No. One is a cult, and one is a group of lunatics. What's that got to do with atheists?

It has to do with defining religion. The fact that one group is focused on Jesus and the other on aliens really matters? That they acted in exactly the same way makes no difference?

That's ridiculous, because not all atheists believe in aliens. I'm sure there's gotta be a couple out there somewhere, but there is no group. Believing in aliens is also not a religion.

I believe in illegal aliens, is that a religion?

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

No, the difference is that they believe, and atheist don't. Your example is completely flawed. You're using two groups that have faith/belief in something that have no evidence of their existence.

Atheism is the exact opposite.

Here's your comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

Here's an appropriate comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip.

The group of atheist do not believe in God, nor do they believe in aliens, they do not spend their days in prayer and preparation, and they do not take poison together. Most atheists don't even belong to any sort of group, but the ones who do get together, are singing, having coffee cake, and chatting about the cult that just died from poison, and how they wasted their short, precious lives, because they put all their faith in a charismatic, manipulating, cult leader.

 

[PratchettFan]

It has to do with defining religion. The fact that one group is focused on Jesus and the other on aliens really matters? That they acted in exactly the same way makes no difference?

That's ridiculous, because not all atheists believe in aliens. I'm sure there's gotta be a couple out there somewhere, but there is no group. Believing in aliens is also not a religion.

I believe in illegal aliens, is that a religion?

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

No, the difference is that they believe, and atheist don't. Your example is completely flawed. You're using two groups that have faith/belief in something that have no evidence of their existence.

Atheism is the exact opposite.

Here's your comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

Here's an appropriate comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip.

The group of atheist do not believe in God, nor do they believe in aliens, they do not spend their days in prayer and preparation, and they do not take poison together. Most atheists don't even belong to any sort of group, but the ones who do get together, are singing, having coffee cake, and chatting about the cult that just died from poison, and how they wasted their short, precious, life, because they put all their faith in a charismatic, manipulating, cult leader.

No, I am comparing two groups to determine what factors we are looking for. I am isolating the factors so they can either be accepted or rejected. You have indicated what is believed is important. If that was not your intent, then clarify it for me.

 

[Carla_Danger]

That's ridiculous, because not all atheists believe in aliens. I'm sure there's gotta be a couple out there somewhere, but there is no group. Believing in aliens is also not a religion.

I believe in illegal aliens, is that a religion?

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

No, the difference is that they believe, and atheist don't. Your example is completely flawed. You're using two groups that have faith/belief in something that have no evidence of their existence.

Atheism is the exact opposite.

Here's your comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

Here's an appropriate comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip.

The group of atheist do not believe in God, nor do they believe in aliens, they do not spend their days in prayer and preparation, and they do not take poison together. Most atheists don't even belong to any sort of group, but the ones who do get together, are singing, having coffee cake, and chatting about the cult that just died from poison, and how they wasted their short, precious, life, because they put all their faith in a charismatic, manipulating, cult leader.

No, I am comparing two groups to determine what factors we are looking for. I am isolating the factors so they can either be accepted or rejected. You have indicated what is believed is important. If that was not your intent, then clarify it for me.

Sigh. You are comparing two groups of believers.

Let me know when you come up with a comparison for one group who believes, and one group who doesn't.

 

[sealybobo]

Note that even a strong atheist can't be 100% sure something didn't create everything we see. They would have to be a god themselves to say that. They may be referring to the "god" that has supposedly visited us 5000, then 2000, then 500 and then 200 years ago. Those gods we are 100% sure are made up because they are too unbelievable to even give a slim chance of being real. Talking snakes, 350 year old men, virgin births, living in a whales belly for 3 days and living and of course the resurrection of Jesus.

Why do idiots insit that their beliefs limit the beliefs of other people?

They can have at it. What else besides go to church early Sunday, pray 5 times a day, take weird vacation days for religious reasons, wash their feet in my sink or tell me I'm going to go to hell do you want them to be able to do?

What do you think I'm limiting them on?

When two people disagree, each side is telling the other side their beliefs are wrong. I don't want to limit your belief. I'm trying to help you realize you are in a fantasy world. Especially when you try to impose it on the rest of society. When your side stops saying this is a Judao Christian country we'll stop attacking your stupid beliefs.

 

[PratchettFan]

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

No, the difference is that they believe, and atheist don't. Your example is completely flawed. You're using two groups that have faith/belief in something that have no evidence of their existence.

Atheism is the exact opposite.

Here's your comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

Here's an appropriate comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip.

The group of atheist do not believe in God, nor do they believe in aliens, they do not spend their days in prayer and preparation, and they do not take poison together. Most atheists don't even belong to any sort of group, but the ones who do get together, are singing, having coffee cake, and chatting about the cult that just died from poison, and how they wasted their short, precious, life, because they put all their faith in a charismatic, manipulating, cult leader.

No, I am comparing two groups to determine what factors we are looking for. I am isolating the factors so they can either be accepted or rejected. You have indicated what is believed is important. If that was not your intent, then clarify it for me.

Sigh. You are comparing two groups of believers.

Let me know when you come up with a comparison for one group who believes, and one group who doesn't.

Yes. That is how it works. If you want to find out if what is believed matters, you have to compare two groups of believers where the only difference is what is believed.

You say you are not involved in religion, why do you insist upon keeping at the level of religion?

 

[sealybobo]

If you don't worship anything, I would say you're not in a religion. I mean, really.

Ok. We have something to actually work with. Why is worship required for something to be a religion?

I don't know of any religion that doesn't worship or have a specific spiritual practice, but i suppose what sets atheists apart is not having an organized belief system that is required in order to be considered a religion.

I've seen quite a bit of organization amongst Atheists, all around a core belief system. There are associations, organizations, even churches. Heck, there is even a bloody dating site. No, that claim is not going to hold water.

Saying you don't know of a religion doesn't mean there isn't one. I certainly consider my faith a religion and I do not worship or engage in specific spiritual practices. If we are going to make any determination in this question we must first establish what religion is. But I am more than willing to consider this so long as it is done without prejudice.

What actually constitutes worship? We can go with the primary definition of showing love and respect to a god. But does it have to be positive? Love and hate may not be the same emotion but they are still emotions. Would not showing hate and disrespect to a god be just as emotional an experience as love and respect? If not, what would we call it?

What are our core beliefs?

The belief there is no god. I would think that obvious. And remember, any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief, so unless you suddenly have some evidence we have established that you do have beliefs.

There is a difference between believing something and not believing in something. I've seen great videos that go into great depth explaining the difference. Not going to waste my time finding it and posting it again. Fact is, I may or may not believe anything you claim. If you told me you were bald I'd believe you but what proof do I have? If you told me you were a perfect 10 I wouldn't believe you but what proof would I have?

Maybe this is the difference?

Believe is a verb. Belief is a noun.

"I believe in him."
"I challenge his belief."

I don't believe. That doesn't mean I have a belief. They do! I'm just challenging it.

But then I can't say IT because then I'm challenging god again:

it
pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"

But would anyone refer to God as IT?

 

[sealybobo]

I told you, this is about defining religion. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the suggestion that two groups acting in exactly the same manner are different because one believes in Jesus and the other in aliens. Because what that means is how a group acts is not important, only what they believe. Doesn't that position sound familiar to you?

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

No, the difference is that they believe, and atheist don't. Your example is completely flawed. You're using two groups that have faith/belief in something that have no evidence of their existence.

Atheism is the exact opposite.

Here's your comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

Here's an appropriate comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip.

The group of atheist do not believe in God, nor do they believe in aliens, they do not spend their days in prayer and preparation, and they do not take poison together. Most atheists don't even belong to any sort of group, but the ones who do get together, are singing, having coffee cake, and chatting about the cult that just died from poison, and how they wasted their short, precious, life, because they put all their faith in a charismatic, manipulating, cult leader.

No, I am comparing two groups to determine what factors we are looking for. I am isolating the factors so they can either be accepted or rejected. You have indicated what is believed is important. If that was not your intent, then clarify it for me.

Sigh. You are comparing two groups of believers.

Let me know when you come up with a comparison for one group who believes, and one group who doesn't.

Atheists are more peaceful EP07398441 c.pdf - Google Drive

doi - Google Drive

And number 11

Atheism is correlated with better scientific literacy [2][3], lower poverty rates, higher literacy rates, higher average incomes, less violence, lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, lower STD infection rates, lower crime rates and lower homicide rates. It correlates highly with the well-being of individuals and societies by almost every possible measure.

Why there is no god

 

[PratchettFan]

Ok. We have something to actually work with. Why is worship required for something to be a religion?

I don't know of any religion that doesn't worship or have a specific spiritual practice, but i suppose what sets atheists apart is not having an organized belief system that is required in order to be considered a religion.

I've seen quite a bit of organization amongst Atheists, all around a core belief system. There are associations, organizations, even churches. Heck, there is even a bloody dating site. No, that claim is not going to hold water.

Saying you don't know of a religion doesn't mean there isn't one. I certainly consider my faith a religion and I do not worship or engage in specific spiritual practices. If we are going to make any determination in this question we must first establish what religion is. But I am more than willing to consider this so long as it is done without prejudice.

What actually constitutes worship? We can go with the primary definition of showing love and respect to a god. But does it have to be positive? Love and hate may not be the same emotion but they are still emotions. Would not showing hate and disrespect to a god be just as emotional an experience as love and respect? If not, what would we call it?

What are our core beliefs?

The belief there is no god. I would think that obvious. And remember, any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief, so unless you suddenly have some evidence we have established that you do have beliefs.

There is a difference between believing something and not believing in something. I've seen great videos that go into great depth explaining the difference. Not going to waste my time finding it and posting it again. Fact is, I may or may not believe anything you claim. If you told me you were bald I'd believe you but what proof do I have? If you told me you were a perfect 10 I wouldn't believe you but what proof would I have?

Maybe this is the difference?

Believe is a verb. Belief is a noun.

"I believe in him."
"I challenge his belief."

I don't believe. That doesn't mean I have a belief. They do! I'm just challenging it.

But then I can't say IT because then I'm challenging god again:

it
pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"

But would anyone refer to God as IT?

I refer to God all the time as an it. If it has a sex at all, it is more likely to be female than male.

As to the rest, bollocks. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief. Not a single person on this or any other board has ever challenged that statement, because it really can't be challenged. You have made many posts just chock full of belief. This claim being made that belief is not belief is just dogma. It is, in fact, the one thing which convinces me that Atheism is being treated as a religion.

 

[Carla_Danger]

No, that's BS.

You're trying to lump me/us into a group where we don't belong. I don't believe in God or aliens.

What is BS? You differentiated between two groups and the only difference between them was what they believed. One you saw as a cult and the other a group of lunatics. I am dealing with what you write. If you wish to clarify what you wrote, that is fine.

No, the difference is that they believe, and atheist don't. Your example is completely flawed. You're using two groups that have faith/belief in something that have no evidence of their existence.

Atheism is the exact opposite.

Here's your comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Then we have another group who believes aliens are going to take them to their planet. The work hard to prepare themselves and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip. Now, you might say the first was religion and the second was not. But I have to wonder what the actual practical difference is between the two might be.

Here's an appropriate comparison:
Let us say we have two groups. One believes that Jesus is about to come and gather them up into heaven. They spend their days in prayer and preparation and on an appointed day, they all take poison together to facilitate the trip.

The group of atheist do not believe in God, nor do they believe in aliens, they do not spend their days in prayer and preparation, and they do not take poison together. Most atheists don't even belong to any sort of group, but the ones who do get together, are singing, having coffee cake, and chatting about the cult that just died from poison, and how they wasted their short, precious, life, because they put all their faith in a charismatic, manipulating, cult leader.

No, I am comparing two groups to determine what factors we are looking for. I am isolating the factors so they can either be accepted or rejected. You have indicated what is believed is important. If that was not your intent, then clarify it for me.

Sigh. You are comparing two groups of believers.

Let me know when you come up with a comparison for one group who believes, and one group who doesn't.

Yes. That is how it works. If you want to find out if what is believed matters, you have to compare two groups of believers where the only difference is what is believed.

You say you are not involved in religion, why do you insist upon keeping at the level of religion?

That's how it works when you're trying to make up your own definition. Again, that's incorrect because atheism is the absence of one particular belief for which you are comparing.

And the question is....why do you insist upon keeping atheism on the same level as religion?

 

[GreenBean]

Buddhism is a Religion

But it is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of "lesser" gods who are the source of morality, and that humans owe any duties to any gods. At the same time, though, these scriptures accept the existence of supernatural beings which might be described as gods. Some Buddhists today believe in the existence of such beings and are theists. Others dismiss these beings and are atheists. Since there is nothing about Buddhism which requires belief in gods, atheism in Buddhism is easy to maintain.

The Jain Religion

For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.



Atheism in Confucian & Taoist Religion:

On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Judeo-Christian Religions are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either.


Atheism and religion are often portrayed and treated as polar opposites; although there is a strong correlation between being an atheist and being irreligious, there is no necessary and inherent connection between the two. Atheism is not the same as being irreligious; theism is not the same as being religious. Atheists in the West tend not to belong to any religion, but atheism is quite compatible with religion. If you are Adamant in your beliefs than you have a lot of Faith in your belief and are in effect a religious Atheist

Adapted aboutreligion.com

I see, You're just making shit up. Obviously, you can't comprehend what you are reading. This is from your link.

Atheism is Not a Religion, Ideology, Belief System, Philosophy

Many Christians seem to believe that atheism is a religion, but no one with an accurate understanding of both concepts would make such a mistake. Atheism lacks every one of the characteristics of religion. At most, atheism doesn’t explicitly exclude most of them, but the same can be said for almost anything. Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself. They are completely different categories: atheism is the absence of one particular belief while religion is a complex web of traditions and beliefs.

Atheism is Not a Religion Ideology Belief System Philosophy World View or Anything Similar

And I see you are Cherry Picking ... HOWEVER ... you made a very good point whether you realize it or not. From the above paragraph.

Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself.

Now - here's something you will probably never hear on the USMessage boards again - You are Right - I concede - regards and congratulations on a job well done.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I don't know of any religion that doesn't worship or have a specific spiritual practice, but i suppose what sets atheists apart is not having an organized belief system that is required in order to be considered a religion.

I've seen quite a bit of organization amongst Atheists, all around a core belief system. There are associations, organizations, even churches. Heck, there is even a bloody dating site. No, that claim is not going to hold water.

Saying you don't know of a religion doesn't mean there isn't one. I certainly consider my faith a religion and I do not worship or engage in specific spiritual practices. If we are going to make any determination in this question we must first establish what religion is. But I am more than willing to consider this so long as it is done without prejudice.

What actually constitutes worship? We can go with the primary definition of showing love and respect to a god. But does it have to be positive? Love and hate may not be the same emotion but they are still emotions. Would not showing hate and disrespect to a god be just as emotional an experience as love and respect? If not, what would we call it?

What are our core beliefs?

The belief there is no god. I would think that obvious. And remember, any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief, so unless you suddenly have some evidence we have established that you do have beliefs.

There is a difference between believing something and not believing in something. I've seen great videos that go into great depth explaining the difference. Not going to waste my time finding it and posting it again. Fact is, I may or may not believe anything you claim. If you told me you were bald I'd believe you but what proof do I have? If you told me you were a perfect 10 I wouldn't believe you but what proof would I have?

Maybe this is the difference?

Believe is a verb. Belief is a noun.

"I believe in him."
"I challenge his belief."

I don't believe. That doesn't mean I have a belief. They do! I'm just challenging it.

But then I can't say IT because then I'm challenging god again:

it
pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"

But would anyone refer to God as IT?

I refer to God all the time as an it. If it has a sex at all, it is more likely to be female than male.

As to the rest, bollocks. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief. Not a single person on this or any other board has ever challenged that statement, because it really can't be challenged. You have made many posts just chock full of belief. This claim being made that belief is not belief is just dogma. It is, in fact, the one thing which convinces me that Atheism is being treated as a religion.

Is that a strong belief? Why are you treating Agnosticism like a religion?

 

[Carla_Danger]

Buddhism is a Religion

But it is widely regarded as an atheistic religion. Buddhist scriptures either do not promote or actively reject the existence of a creator god, the existence of "lesser" gods who are the source of morality, and that humans owe any duties to any gods. At the same time, though, these scriptures accept the existence of supernatural beings which might be described as gods. Some Buddhists today believe in the existence of such beings and are theists. Others dismiss these beings and are atheists. Since there is nothing about Buddhism which requires belief in gods, atheism in Buddhism is easy to maintain.

The Jain Religion

For Jains, every soul or spiritual being is worthy of the exact same praise. Because of this, Jains do not worship any "higher" spiritual beings like gods nor do they worship or pay homage to any idols. Jains believe that the universe has always existed and will always exist, so there is no need for any sort of creator god. None of this means that no spiritual beings exist which might be called "gods," however, and thus a Jain might believe in beings which might be considered gods and therefore technically be a theist. From a Western religious perspective, though, they'd all be atheists.



Atheism in Confucian & Taoist Religion:

On a functional level, at least, both Confucianism and Taoism can be considered atheistic. Neither is founded on faith in a creator god like Judeo-Christian Religions are. Neither promote the existence of such a god, either.


Atheism and religion are often portrayed and treated as polar opposites; although there is a strong correlation between being an atheist and being irreligious, there is no necessary and inherent connection between the two. Atheism is not the same as being irreligious; theism is not the same as being religious. Atheists in the West tend not to belong to any religion, but atheism is quite compatible with religion. If you are Adamant in your beliefs than you have a lot of Faith in your belief and are in effect a religious Atheist

Adapted aboutreligion.com

I see, You're just making shit up. Obviously, you can't comprehend what you are reading. This is from your link.

Atheism is Not a Religion, Ideology, Belief System, Philosophy

Many Christians seem to believe that atheism is a religion, but no one with an accurate understanding of both concepts would make such a mistake. Atheism lacks every one of the characteristics of religion. At most, atheism doesn’t explicitly exclude most of them, but the same can be said for almost anything. Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself. They are completely different categories: atheism is the absence of one particular belief while religion is a complex web of traditions and beliefs.

Atheism is Not a Religion Ideology Belief System Philosophy World View or Anything Similar

And I see you are Cherry Picking ... HOWEVER ... you made a very good point whether you realize it or not. From the above paragraph.

Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself.

Now - here's something you will probably never hear on the USMessage boards again - You are Right - I concede - regards and congratulations on a job well done.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't know of any religion that doesn't worship or have a specific spiritual practice, but i suppose what sets atheists apart is not having an organized belief system that is required in order to be considered a religion.

I've seen quite a bit of organization amongst Atheists, all around a core belief system. There are associations, organizations, even churches. Heck, there is even a bloody dating site. No, that claim is not going to hold water.

Saying you don't know of a religion doesn't mean there isn't one. I certainly consider my faith a religion and I do not worship or engage in specific spiritual practices. If we are going to make any determination in this question we must first establish what religion is. But I am more than willing to consider this so long as it is done without prejudice.

What actually constitutes worship? We can go with the primary definition of showing love and respect to a god. But does it have to be positive? Love and hate may not be the same emotion but they are still emotions. Would not showing hate and disrespect to a god be just as emotional an experience as love and respect? If not, what would we call it?

What are our core beliefs?

The belief there is no god. I would think that obvious. And remember, any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief, so unless you suddenly have some evidence we have established that you do have beliefs.

There is a difference between believing something and not believing in something. I've seen great videos that go into great depth explaining the difference. Not going to waste my time finding it and posting it again. Fact is, I may or may not believe anything you claim. If you told me you were bald I'd believe you but what proof do I have? If you told me you were a perfect 10 I wouldn't believe you but what proof would I have?

Maybe this is the difference?

Believe is a verb. Belief is a noun.

"I believe in him."
"I challenge his belief."

I don't believe. That doesn't mean I have a belief. They do! I'm just challenging it.

But then I can't say IT because then I'm challenging god again:

it
pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"

But would anyone refer to God as IT?

I refer to God all the time as an it. If it has a sex at all, it is more likely to be female than male.

As to the rest, bollocks. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief. Not a single person on this or any other board has ever challenged that statement, because it really can't be challenged. You have made many posts just chock full of belief. This claim being made that belief is not belief is just dogma. It is, in fact, the one thing which convinces me that Atheism is being treated as a religion.

So I'm your first?

Do you have 10 minutes to learn the differences and why you are wrong?



Once you have listened to this then argue. In fact, just listen for 1 minute and if you aren't interested in what you are hearing then stop.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I've seen quite a bit of organization amongst Atheists, all around a core belief system. There are associations, organizations, even churches. Heck, there is even a bloody dating site. No, that claim is not going to hold water.

Saying you don't know of a religion doesn't mean there isn't one. I certainly consider my faith a religion and I do not worship or engage in specific spiritual practices. If we are going to make any determination in this question we must first establish what religion is. But I am more than willing to consider this so long as it is done without prejudice.

What actually constitutes worship? We can go with the primary definition of showing love and respect to a god. But does it have to be positive? Love and hate may not be the same emotion but they are still emotions. Would not showing hate and disrespect to a god be just as emotional an experience as love and respect? If not, what would we call it?

What are our core beliefs?

The belief there is no god. I would think that obvious. And remember, any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief, so unless you suddenly have some evidence we have established that you do have beliefs.

There is a difference between believing something and not believing in something. I've seen great videos that go into great depth explaining the difference. Not going to waste my time finding it and posting it again. Fact is, I may or may not believe anything you claim. If you told me you were bald I'd believe you but what proof do I have? If you told me you were a perfect 10 I wouldn't believe you but what proof would I have?

Maybe this is the difference?

Believe is a verb. Belief is a noun.

"I believe in him."
"I challenge his belief."

I don't believe. That doesn't mean I have a belief. They do! I'm just challenging it.

But then I can't say IT because then I'm challenging god again:

it
pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"

But would anyone refer to God as IT?

I refer to God all the time as an it. If it has a sex at all, it is more likely to be female than male.

As to the rest, bollocks. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief. Not a single person on this or any other board has ever challenged that statement, because it really can't be challenged. You have made many posts just chock full of belief. This claim being made that belief is not belief is just dogma. It is, in fact, the one thing which convinces me that Atheism is being treated as a religion.

So I'm your first?

Do you have 10 minutes to learn the differences and why you are wrong?



Once you have listened to this then argue. In fact, just listen for 1 minute and if you aren't interested in what you are hearing then stop.

Now that was interesting! Thanks!

 

[sealybobo]

What are our core beliefs?

The belief there is no god. I would think that obvious. And remember, any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief, so unless you suddenly have some evidence we have established that you do have beliefs.

There is a difference between believing something and not believing in something. I've seen great videos that go into great depth explaining the difference. Not going to waste my time finding it and posting it again. Fact is, I may or may not believe anything you claim. If you told me you were bald I'd believe you but what proof do I have? If you told me you were a perfect 10 I wouldn't believe you but what proof would I have?

Maybe this is the difference?

Believe is a verb. Belief is a noun.

"I believe in him."
"I challenge his belief."

I don't believe. That doesn't mean I have a belief. They do! I'm just challenging it.

But then I can't say IT because then I'm challenging god again:

it
pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"

But would anyone refer to God as IT?

I refer to God all the time as an it. If it has a sex at all, it is more likely to be female than male.

As to the rest, bollocks. Any conclusion made in the absence of evidence is a belief. Not a single person on this or any other board has ever challenged that statement, because it really can't be challenged. You have made many posts just chock full of belief. This claim being made that belief is not belief is just dogma. It is, in fact, the one thing which convinces me that Atheism is being treated as a religion.

So I'm your first?

Do you have 10 minutes to learn the differences and why you are wrong?



Once you have listened to this then argue. In fact, just listen for 1 minute and if you aren't interested in what you are hearing then stop.

Now that was interesting! Thanks!

Wouldn't be surprised if PratchettFan is a slower reader than you but why's it taking him longer than you to watch the video?

Maybe he's slower at typing or MAYBE he's responding with a 20 paragraph well thought out reply on why that guy in the video is wrong. I doubt it. Slower typing skills yes but gonna reply intelligently NO.