Atheism is the believe that something came out of nothing and we're all going nowhere

[ding]

You are quibbling over theoretical heat death while I am telling you that an infinite acting universe would yield a practical heat death which is not what we observe today. Therefore, space and time did have a beginning.

Again there is NO heat death of the universe "practical" or otherwise. And I am NOT arguing that space/time didn't have a beginning, I am arguing that ENERGY did not have a beginning!

Let's start with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, for any real process as time approaches infinity usable energy approaches zero, right? That is heat death. We know that this has not happened because when we look around the universe we see usable energy remaining, therefore we know that the time has not approached infinity and that there must have been a beginning in time that was finite.
Now let's look at the First Law of Thermodynamics. E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.
Where exactly have I violated any of the Laws of Thermodynamics? I haven't.
Therefore, space and time - which is matter and energy - had a beginning.

Space/time is space/time and NOT matter/energy.
Your phony heat death of the universe violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

How does it violate the Third Law of Thermodynamics exactly?

What is the Third Law of Thermodynamics?

Siabal Mitra, a professor of physics at Missouri State University, provides another implication of this law. “One version of the Third Law states that it would require an infinite number of steps to reach absolute zero, which means you will never get there. If you could get to absolute zero, it would violate the Second Law, because if you had a heat sink at absolute zero, then you could build a machine that was 100 percent efficient.”

I never said it reached absolute zero. I said that as time approaches infinity, usable energy approaches zero. I didn't say it reached it. But the important thing to recognize here is that we are no where near usable energy approaching zero so space and time and matter and energy had a beginning.

 

[ding]

There are two things that drive atheists absolutely bonkers.

1. That militant atheism leads to communism

2. The universe had a beginning

If only atheists would stop rejecting science and creating totalitarian regimes the world would be a better place.

 

[edthecynic]

Again there is NO heat death of the universe "practical" or otherwise. And I am NOT arguing that space/time didn't have a beginning, I am arguing that ENERGY did not have a beginning!

Let's start with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, for any real process as time approaches infinity usable energy approaches zero, right? That is heat death. We know that this has not happened because when we look around the universe we see usable energy remaining, therefore we know that the time has not approached infinity and that there must have been a beginning in time that was finite.
Now let's look at the First Law of Thermodynamics. E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.
Where exactly have I violated any of the Laws of Thermodynamics? I haven't.
Therefore, space and time - which is matter and energy - had a beginning.

Space/time is space/time and NOT matter/energy.
Your phony heat death of the universe violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

How does it violate the Third Law of Thermodynamics exactly?

What is the Third Law of Thermodynamics?

Siabal Mitra, a professor of physics at Missouri State University, provides another implication of this law. “One version of the Third Law states that it would require an infinite number of steps to reach absolute zero, which means you will never get there. If you could get to absolute zero, it would violate the Second Law, because if you had a heat sink at absolute zero, then you could build a machine that was 100 percent efficient.”

I never said it reached absolute zero. I said that as time approaches infinity, usable energy approaches zero. I didn't say it reached it. But the important thing to recognize here is that we are no where near usable energy approaching zero so space and time and matter and energy had a beginning.

But to have a heat death you MUST achieve absolute zero and stop all motion, because as long as motion exists usable kinetic energy exists and therefore work can be done.
Get it?

 

[ding]

Let's start with the Second Law of Thermodynamics, for any real process as time approaches infinity usable energy approaches zero, right? That is heat death. We know that this has not happened because when we look around the universe we see usable energy remaining, therefore we know that the time has not approached infinity and that there must have been a beginning in time that was finite.
Now let's look at the First Law of Thermodynamics. E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.
Where exactly have I violated any of the Laws of Thermodynamics? I haven't.
Therefore, space and time - which is matter and energy - had a beginning.

Space/time is space/time and NOT matter/energy.
Your phony heat death of the universe violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

How does it violate the Third Law of Thermodynamics exactly?

What is the Third Law of Thermodynamics?

Siabal Mitra, a professor of physics at Missouri State University, provides another implication of this law. “One version of the Third Law states that it would require an infinite number of steps to reach absolute zero, which means you will never get there. If you could get to absolute zero, it would violate the Second Law, because if you had a heat sink at absolute zero, then you could build a machine that was 100 percent efficient.”

I never said it reached absolute zero. I said that as time approaches infinity, usable energy approaches zero. I didn't say it reached it. But the important thing to recognize here is that we are no where near usable energy approaching zero so space and time and matter and energy had a beginning.

But to have a heat death you MUST achieve absolute zero and stop all motion, because as long as motion exists usable kinetic energy exists and therefore work can be done.
Get it?

Call it whatever you want. Call it heat near death. We don't see heat near death, lol. You lose.

 

[ding]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

 

[ding]

Who could have added the work to the system? Let's see. It would have to be something eternal. It can't be matter because matter is not eternal because it suffers from the near heat death disease. Damn that pesky Second Law of Thermodynamics.

 

[Disir]

And there's no point, really, to any of it, so life has no meaning or purpose.

What are you talking about? I simply believe in one less God than you do.

 

[edthecynic]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

 

[edthecynic]

Who could have added the work to the system? Let's see. It would have to be something eternal. It can't be matter because matter is not eternal because it suffers from the near heat death disease. Damn that pesky Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Complete hogwash!

 

[ding]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then perform work on the system.

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work done on the system at the beginning.

E = 0+W Problem solved

Space/time and matter/energy had a beginning and no law of thermodynamics have been violated. God loves science. He created it.

The reality is that prior to the singularity none of these laws apply, dipshit. It is only after the singularity that they apply. And from that point on it is the Second Law of Thermodynamics which tells us that space and time and matter and energy had a beginning.

 

[edthecynic]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

 

[jillian]

And there's no point, really, to any of it, so life has no meaning or purpose.

er.... no...atheism is a belief that things occur because of things capable of scientific proof.

unlike religious.

no one cares what you believe. i have my own beliefs, i'm just not a whining hate-filled bigot who is so armoring that they think only their unproven assertions are correct.

why do religious zealots feel the need to annoy everyone else in the world with their nonsense?

 

[ding]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

Work can be done ON the system, Einstein. But putting this aside, the laws of physics breakdown at the singularity. Why in the world do you believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics apply at the singularity? After the singularity, you just can't get around the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Space/time and energy/matter had a beginning.

 

[ding]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

The Big Bang and the Big Crunch - The Physics of the Universe

"...Neither does it attempt to explain what initiated the creation of the universe, or what came before the Big Bang, or even what lies outside the universe. All of this is generally considered to be outside the remit of physics, and more the concern of philosophy. Given that time and space as we understand it began with the Big Bang, the phase “before the Big Bang” is as meaningless as “north of the North Pole”.

Therefore, to those who claim that the very idea of a Big Bang violates the First Law of Thermodynamics (also known as the Law of Conservation of Energy) that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, proponents respond that the Big Bang does not address the creation of the universe, only its evolution, and that, as the laws of science break down anyway as we approach the creation of the universe, there is no reason to believe that the First Law of Thermodynamics would apply.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, on the other hand, lends theoretical (albeit inconclusive) support to the idea of a finite universe originating in a Big Bang type event. If disorder and entropy in the universe as a whole is constantly increasing until it reaches thermodynamic equilibrium, as the Law suggests, then it follows that the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would have reached its equilibrium end state an infinite time ago, our Sun would have exhausted its fuel reserves and died long ago, and the constant cycle of death and rebirth of stars would have ground to a halt after an eternity of dissipation of energy, losses of material to black holes, etc.."

 

[edthecynic]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

Work can be done ON the system, Einstein. But putting this aside, the laws of physics breakdown at the singularity. Why in the world do you believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics apply at the singularity? After the singularity, you just can't get around the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Space/time and energy/matter had a beginning.

If you toss a ball straight up in the air, it rises to its maximum before falling back to the ground. At its maximum for just a SINGULAR moment the ball is neither rising nor falling. That singularity does not mean the Law of Gravity and the Law of Motion have broken down at the singularity.

 

[ding]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

Work can be done ON the system, Einstein. But putting this aside, the laws of physics breakdown at the singularity. Why in the world do you believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics apply at the singularity? After the singularity, you just can't get around the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Space/time and energy/matter had a beginning.

If you toss a ball straight up in the air, it rises to its maximum before falling back to the ground. At its maximum for just a SINGULAR moment the ball is neither rising nor falling. That singularity does not mean the Law of Gravity and the Law of Motion have broken down at the singularity.

Besides you, can you show me anyone who believes the laws of science don't break down at the big bang?

 

[edthecynic]

Work can be done ON the system, Einstein.

Work is a force through a distance. If as you claim there was no energy, no work could be done ON the system. And none of your word games will create energy or do work.

 

[Czernobog]

There are two things that drive atheists absolutely bonkers.

1. That militant atheism leads to communism

An erroneous claim you continue to make, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, based solely on the writings of one man's observations whose views were, themselves, clearly coloured by a personal agenda, not unlike your own.

2. The universe had a beginning

A quote that is both presumptuous, and incapable of being proven.



Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning. Energy had a beginning. Problem solved.

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

Work can be done ON the system, Einstein. But putting this aside, the laws of physics breakdown at the singularity. Why in the world do you believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics apply at the singularity? After the singularity, you just can't get around the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Space/time and energy/matter had a beginning.

If you believe that, then why on earth would you believe that the second law must be in operation? You just admitted that your entire argument falls apart at the point of singularity.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[edthecynic]

Actually the FLoT is

Esys = q + w and it says that the change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of the heat gained or lost by the system and the work done by or on the system. So if q = 0 then w = 0 and the change in the energy of the system is 0. It does not say that energy has a beginning. In fact it says the exact opposite.

The first law of thermodynamics can be captured in the following equation, which states that the energy of the universe is constant. Energy can be transferred from the system to its surroundings, or vice versa, but it can't be created or destroyed.

Euniv =

Esys +

Esurr = 0

I didn't say anything about creating energy. Start with zero energy in the system and then add work to it. That's is how it was done.
E= Q+W. Before the beginning Q=0. W = the work added to the system at the beginning.

You have no idea what you are parroting.
If the system has zero energy, then zero work can be done. Work does not create energy.

Work can be done ON the system, Einstein. But putting this aside, the laws of physics breakdown at the singularity. Why in the world do you believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics apply at the singularity? After the singularity, you just can't get around the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Space/time and energy/matter had a beginning.

If you toss a ball straight up in the air, it rises to its maximum before falling back to the ground. At its maximum for just a SINGULAR moment the ball is neither rising nor falling. That singularity does not mean the Law of Gravity and the Law of Motion have broken down at the singularity.

Besides you, can you show me anyone who believes the laws of science don't break down at the big bang?

What breaks down is our theory of gravity. What we need is a quantum theory of gravity.

Besides you, who else believes in a "near heat death of the universe?"