atheist to pass out materials at Florida high schools

[logical4u]

Wow. How superior you must hold yourself to demand that anyone not having your religion has no possible moral compass.

Atheists do moral and great works all the time. There is no difference other than they don’t need a ‘higher power’ to declare morality for them. I am a moral individual without a religion; I have a strong doubt that you even understand what the means…

How do you know if you're a "moral person" if you have no list of what's moral and what isn't? Do you just create your own list?

Essentially, that is true. You have to remember though, your list of ‘morals’ does not stand on its own. It exists in context with those around you as well. I find my morality in simply not doing things that harm other creatures without necessity (I do have to eat and all ). There is more but irrelevant to the discussion atm. It is a rather simple concept though slightly harder to carry out. However, that morality is subject to the people around me as well to some extent.

I have always said that what matters at the end of my day though is not what my boss thinks of me, my friends think of me or my neighbor thinks of me but whether or not I can lay my head down on my pillow at the end of the night with a clear conscience.

This may seem somewhat nihilistic as I am essentially defining my own morality BUT the fact remains that this is true for anyone whether they find their morals in religion or not. Remember that the Westburrow Baptist Church is a group of people that are quite religious and believe themselves moral people but I doubt that anyone here would even remotely agree. Just because you claim that your morality comes from a higher power does not mean that you are a moral person at all.

What I found insulting on the original asinine statement was the assertion that morality cannot exist without belief in a higher power. That is wrong and an expression of people that believe they are better than others somehow. It is pathetic.

History has shown with the absence of religion (belief in a "HIGHER" power), has caused the worst atrocities/human rights violations/torture/imprisonment than any other belief system. You probably don't even realize that the LORD is already written onto your heart. Each person makes their own choice to follow that truth or not. Those that deny the LORD and walk away from him, only have one other place to go...... towards evil (if you are not walking towards the LORD, then you are walking away from HIM).
Because you don't acknowledge where "your" morals originate, does not mean that they come from "you". Those that refuse to follow their hearts do walk towards evil, and do great evil to others.

You can give all the speeches you want about how that isn't so, but if you look at the evidence (those that reject the LORD are more likely to do terrible things). Those that are intent on walking towards the LORD (extremists that are called "missionaries") tend to do wonderful things for mankind and communities. The people that claim they follow the LORD, but do not attempt to walk towards the LORD, support homosexual and other sinful acts are "lukewarm" and will be rejected by the LORD.

 

[FA_Q2]

How do you know if you're a "moral person" if you have no list of what's moral and what isn't? Do you just create your own list?

Essentially, that is true. You have to remember though, your list of ‘morals’ does not stand on its own. It exists in context with those around you as well. I find my morality in simply not doing things that harm other creatures without necessity (I do have to eat and all ). There is more but irrelevant to the discussion atm. It is a rather simple concept though slightly harder to carry out. However, that morality is subject to the people around me as well to some extent.

I have always said that what matters at the end of my day though is not what my boss thinks of me, my friends think of me or my neighbor thinks of me but whether or not I can lay my head down on my pillow at the end of the night with a clear conscience.

This may seem somewhat nihilistic as I am essentially defining my own morality BUT the fact remains that this is true for anyone whether they find their morals in religion or not. Remember that the Westburrow Baptist Church is a group of people that are quite religious and believe themselves moral people but I doubt that anyone here would even remotely agree. Just because you claim that your morality comes from a higher power does not mean that you are a moral person at all.

What I found insulting on the original asinine statement was the assertion that morality cannot exist without belief in a higher power. That is wrong and an expression of people that believe they are better than others somehow. It is pathetic.

History has shown with the absence of religion (belief in a "HIGHER" power), has caused the worst atrocities/human rights violations/torture/imprisonment than any other belief system. You probably don't even realize that the LORD is already written onto your heart. Each person makes their own choice to follow that truth or not. Those that deny the LORD and walk away from him, only have one other place to go...... towards evil (if you are not walking towards the LORD, then you are walking away from HIM).
Because you don't acknowledge where "your" morals originate, does not mean that they come from "you". Those that refuse to follow their hearts do walk towards evil, and do great evil to others.

You can give all the speeches you want about how that isn't so, but if you look at the evidence (those that reject the LORD are more likely to do terrible things). Those that are intent on walking towards the LORD (extremists that are called "missionaries") tend to do wonderful things for mankind and communities. The people that claim they follow the LORD, but do not attempt to walk towards the LORD, support homosexual and other sinful acts are "lukewarm" and will be rejected by the LORD.

Case in point turzovka. Case in point.

 

[FA_Q2]

Somewhere in your posts I read (paraphrase) that you have not given the reality of God or which God a serious undertaking (correct me if I am wrong?). Is that true? If so, how could that possibly be?

I don’t really understand the question here. If you are asking have I ever seriously thought about being religious or studied religion then you have misread whatever makes you think that I have not. I have thought about it quite a bit and read the bible. I have not discovered the ‘proof’ that I require though and have no need nor drive to trust in Christianity.

You also noted: (quote) “I have always said that what matters at the end of my day though is not what my boss thinks of me, my friends think of me or my neighbor thinks of me but whether or not I can lay my head down on my pillow at the end of the night with a clear conscience.”

Question: And what if you or I lay down night after night without a clear conscience because our various lusts or desires or apathy has prevented that? Would that concern you, and to what degree?

Thanks.

It concerns me a lot. It happens. I hate that feeling and have to resolve whatever the problem is if I am capable. I don’t really know what else to say here.

 

[turzovka]

Somewhere in your posts I read (paraphrase) that you have not given the reality of God or which God a serious undertaking (correct me if I am wrong?). Is that true? If so, how could that possibly be?

I don’t really understand the question here. If you are asking have I ever seriously thought about being religious or studied religion then you have misread whatever makes you think that I have not. I have thought about it quite a bit and read the bible. I have not discovered the ‘proof’ that I require though and have no need nor drive to trust in Christianity.

You also noted: (quote) “I have always said that what matters at the end of my day though is not what my boss thinks of me, my friends think of me or my neighbor thinks of me but whether or not I can lay my head down on my pillow at the end of the night with a clear conscience.”

Question: And what if you or I lay down night after night without a clear conscience because our various lusts or desires or apathy has prevented that? Would that concern you, and to what degree?

Thanks.

It concerns me a lot. It happens. I hate that feeling and have to resolve whatever the problem is if I am capable. I don’t really know what else to say here.

I was simply curious ---- as it may order how I might comment somewhere later. So if we dared to use labels would agnostic be close?

And you say, "no drive to trust in Christianity" means like what?... like too many incongruities to your way of thinking to even attempt to sort it all out? Or is it more universal where God is so abstract you are no longer interested in taking the time to discover if it can be discovered?

 

[logical4u]

Essentially, that is true. You have to remember though, your list of ‘morals’ does not stand on its own. It exists in context with those around you as well. I find my morality in simply not doing things that harm other creatures without necessity (I do have to eat and all ). There is more but irrelevant to the discussion atm. It is a rather simple concept though slightly harder to carry out. However, that morality is subject to the people around me as well to some extent.

I have always said that what matters at the end of my day though is not what my boss thinks of me, my friends think of me or my neighbor thinks of me but whether or not I can lay my head down on my pillow at the end of the night with a clear conscience.

This may seem somewhat nihilistic as I am essentially defining my own morality BUT the fact remains that this is true for anyone whether they find their morals in religion or not. Remember that the Westburrow Baptist Church is a group of people that are quite religious and believe themselves moral people but I doubt that anyone here would even remotely agree. Just because you claim that your morality comes from a higher power does not mean that you are a moral person at all.

What I found insulting on the original asinine statement was the assertion that morality cannot exist without belief in a higher power. That is wrong and an expression of people that believe they are better than others somehow. It is pathetic.

History has shown with the absence of religion (belief in a "HIGHER" power), has caused the worst atrocities/human rights violations/torture/imprisonment than any other belief system. You probably don't even realize that the LORD is already written onto your heart. Each person makes their own choice to follow that truth or not. Those that deny the LORD and walk away from him, only have one other place to go...... towards evil (if you are not walking towards the LORD, then you are walking away from HIM).
Because you don't acknowledge where "your" morals originate, does not mean that they come from "you". Those that refuse to follow their hearts do walk towards evil, and do great evil to others.

You can give all the speeches you want about how that isn't so, but if you look at the evidence (those that reject the LORD are more likely to do terrible things). Those that are intent on walking towards the LORD (extremists that are called "missionaries") tend to do wonderful things for mankind and communities. The people that claim they follow the LORD, but do not attempt to walk towards the LORD, support homosexual and other sinful acts are "lukewarm" and will be rejected by the LORD.

Case in point turzovka. Case in point.

Dodge!