Atheists are just as deluded as theists...

[BULLDOG]

It's your proof. Convince me. I've already heard "I just know it" and "You have to accept the bible as fact" and all the crap along those lines, but if you can come up with something rational and believable, I'm listening.

I’m not trying to convince you. I couldn’t care less.

You made a statement that they are open to being convinced and I am curious what kind of evidence it would take.

Because it is my belief that there is no evidence you would accept. Which means you are not open to being convinced.

Move stars so they spell god does exist

There are something like 270 sextillion stars. You can find an arrangement that spells anything you want. Done.

If there is an all powerful god, it wouldn't be hard to make his existence known in an unquestionable, unambiguous way.

You mean like creating time and space?

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

 

[ding]

I’m not trying to convince you. I couldn’t care less.

You made a statement that they are open to being convinced and I am curious what kind of evidence it would take.

Because it is my belief that there is no evidence you would accept. Which means you are not open to being convinced.

Move stars so they spell god does exist

There are something like 270 sextillion stars. You can find an arrangement that spells anything you want. Done.

If there is an all powerful god, it wouldn't be hard to make his existence known in an unquestionable, unambiguous way.

You mean like creating time and space?

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

 

[BULLDOG]

Move stars so they spell god does exist

There are something like 270 sextillion stars. You can find an arrangement that spells anything you want. Done.

If there is an all powerful god, it wouldn't be hard to make his existence known in an unquestionable, unambiguous way.

You mean like creating time and space?

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

 

[ding]

There are something like 270 sextillion stars. You can find an arrangement that spells anything you want. Done.

If there is an all powerful god, it wouldn't be hard to make his existence known in an unquestionable, unambiguous way.

You mean like creating time and space?

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

Matter cannot exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium so the only solution to the first cause is something not made of matter.

There's your proof.

 

[BULLDOG]

If there is an all powerful god, it wouldn't be hard to make his existence known in an unquestionable, unambiguous way.

You mean like creating time and space?

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

Matter cannot exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium so the only solution to the first cause is something not made of matter.

There's your proof.

No it's not. How does that prove a god exists? Whether the universe was created by a god, or by some other means, your statement would still have the same validity or lack thereof.

 

[ding]

You mean like creating time and space?

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

Matter cannot exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium so the only solution to the first cause is something not made of matter.

There's your proof.

No it's not. How does that prove a god exists? Whether the universe was created by a god, or by some other means, your statement would still have the same validity or lack thereof.

Because there must be a first cause. You can't get around it.

 

[BULLDOG]

I mean like making himself known in an unquestionable way. Appearing to every person at the same time would be child's play for him. Make a neon sign instantly appear on the moon proclaiming his existence. If he created everything, a big sign shouldn't be a problem. Make Turnip greens taste like Ice cream. An all knowing god could easily figure out the best way to prove he exists..

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

Matter cannot exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium so the only solution to the first cause is something not made of matter.

There's your proof.

No it's not. How does that prove a god exists? Whether the universe was created by a god, or by some other means, your statement would still have the same validity or lack thereof.

Because there must be a first cause. You can't get around it.

So your god had a beginning?

 

[ding]

I believe that creating reality is a pretty unquestionable way.

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

Matter cannot exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium so the only solution to the first cause is something not made of matter.

There's your proof.

No it's not. How does that prove a god exists? Whether the universe was created by a god, or by some other means, your statement would still have the same validity or lack thereof.

Because there must be a first cause. You can't get around it.

So your god had a beginning?

Did you even read what I wrote before?

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. This we know to be God. Do I need to walk you through the proof again using the final state of fact?

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes, that would be an amazing trick if there was just some way to prove God did it. We're specifically talking about making his existence unquestionable. If there is no way to show reality was created by a god, it doesn't prove his existence, does it?

Matter cannot exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium so the only solution to the first cause is something not made of matter.

There's your proof.

No it's not. How does that prove a god exists? Whether the universe was created by a god, or by some other means, your statement would still have the same validity or lack thereof.

Because there must be a first cause. You can't get around it.

So your god had a beginning?

Did you even read what I wrote before?

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. This we know to be God. Do I need to walk you through the proof again using the final state of fact?

Got it. In other words---"because that's what I believe""

 

[toobfreak]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

 

[sealybobo]

It's your proof. Convince me. I've already heard "I just know it" and "You have to accept the bible as fact" and all the crap along those lines, but if you can come up with something rational and believable, I'm listening.

I’m not trying to convince you. I couldn’t care less.

You made a statement that they are open to being convinced and I am curious what kind of evidence it would take.

Because it is my belief that there is no evidence you would accept. Which means you are not open to being convinced.

Move stars so they spell god does exist

There are something like 270 sextillion stars. You can find an arrangement that spells anything you want. Done.

If there is an all powerful god, it wouldn't be hard to make his existence known in an unquestionable, unambiguous way.

You mean like creating time and space?

No god necessary. You give this made up thing credit for whatever you don’t understand

 

[sealybobo]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.
So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.
But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.
So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

Ding, you touch upon a few good points:
God is the perfect willing mentor to the sincere student wishing to find his way on the path. The key here is the genuine wish to learn and to exceed the self.
God is known only through direct inward experience spoken to the soul.
God is an inward experience so AFAIK, cannot be proven or shown outwardly to a skeptic without harm except through yogic means, and then, only when done without self.
God is found in the spiritual heart (4th thru 7th chakras) by His advent, through a sincere (selfless) inner desire to know something greater and higher than oneself, so will never be found or proven to the ego-driven skeptic standing on one foot daring him to make himself known through the doubting, skeptical mind, as much as I know that just sounds like a cop out.

That's just the way it is and is the same regardless of faith because all faiths lead to the same place. It is the cosmic safety valve which keeps out people not yet ready to advance within the spirit, which would only cause them to fall lower instead, which is a grave offense.

Which of course all of this is always taken as just a cop out by the doubting, ego-driven individual! But that is just how it is. Much like the lions at the gate. Part of the mechanism of keeping out people unless and until they are truly ready to move past the physical and leave the material effulgence.

So now of course go right ahead and doubt me!

So any religion will do? I’ll become a Muslim or Mormon. One of those stories must be true

 

[Taz]

God is not a mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into and be experienced.

So if you make a sincere effort to enter into that relationship, God can be proven through experience.

But you’d have to understand what that proof would look like.

So it is possible to prove or disprove God through experience.

So you have nothing. Got it.

Thanks for proving you aren’t agnostic.

That's a dream of yours, that I'm not agnostic. Why? It reeks of jealousy.

 

[Taz]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

 

[Taz]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

Logical fallacy there sport. Prove you’re not gay. And the mere facts that you are married to a woman and have never been with a man does not prove you are not gay......not that there is anything wrong with that.

Proving Non-Existence

Proving Non-Existence



Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Thanks for proving non-existence. I wasn't sure about that.

 

[dblack]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Yeah. The terminology does get blurred, sometime intentionally. I think it's usually done to promote the idea that atheists are anti-religion. Some are, but most aren't. Many actually support religion for various reasons, even if they don't subscribe to one personally.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

Logical fallacy there sport. Prove you’re not gay. And the mere facts that you are married to a woman and have never been with a man does not prove you are not gay......not that there is anything wrong with that.

Proving Non-Existence

Proving Non-Existence



Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Thanks for proving non-existence. I wasn't sure about that.

Thanks for being gay, I kinda suspected it.

 

[Taz]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

Logical fallacy there sport. Prove you’re not gay. And the mere facts that you are married to a woman and have never been with a man does not prove you are not gay......not that there is anything wrong with that.

Proving Non-Existence

Proving Non-Existence



Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Thanks for proving non-existence. I wasn't sure about that.

Thanks for being gay, I kinda suspected it.

So was Jesus. Too bad for you.

 

[sealybobo]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

 

[BuckToothMoron]

... as there's also no proof that a god can't be possible. Or can any atheist here prove that god is not possible?

They don't need to. Atheism is not the conviction that there is no god. It's the lack of belief in a god or gods. Big difference.

Ya, that's what it seems, I've always seen the two as sort of distinct, atheists says god is a dumb idea, and agnostics say there's no proof for a god but that that doesn't mean that there isn't one. I'm finding out that those lines are more blurred for most atheists. That's cool, now I know.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

#21

Why there is no god

I actually believe there is a god, but not as an explanation for the unknown. I reached the conclusion by observing that all human cultures throughout history have had some type of religion/god. If all human cultures experience the sense of a god (non believers are the outliers) then it stands to reason that all human cultures experience or sense something and what they call that sense is god, or other type of deity. It does exist, but it is somewhat undefined. Or maybe not.