Baker must make gay cakes

[Peach]

Being black is not condemned in the Bible. Being homosexual is.

And fortunately the bible and other religious dogma are legally and Constitutionally irrelevant.

Gay Americans constitute a class of persons entitled to Constitutional protections (Romer v. Evans (1996), Lawrence v. Texas (2003)), where the states and local jurisdictions may not seek to subject them to disadvantage, regardless the dogma of ignorance and hate propagated by the bible.

That isn't what the First Amendment says.

The USSC remains the Court of jurisdiction to determine what is a protected class of persons. See Article III. Big Earl has the liberty to hate, he should not have the liberty to run a public business as a private club, and deny certain groups of Americans the use of that business.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The law in Colorado protects sexual orientation in public accommodation. You are not going to overturn public accommodation law. You aren't going to overturn Colorado's equal protection.

It isn't equal protection to make a guy bake a gay themed cake if he doesn't want to. And don't be so quick about the 'thou shall never overturn...' mantra. Many states have had laws that proved to be unconstitutional. All it takes is the right catalyst to make it to the Supreme Court where I don't believe it will pass muster.

Incorrect.

The jurisprudence that serves as the underpinning of Colorado’s and other states’ public accommodations laws has already been revisited by the Supreme Court where Employment Division is still applicable to the states, reaffirming the wise and appropriate doctrine that religion may not be used as justification to violate or ignore just and proper laws (City of Boerne v. Flores (1997)).

So again, public accommodations laws do not ‘force’ anyone to do anything, private business owners as responsible professionals should know and understand the laws of their jurisdictions which regulate business activities, and be prepared to obey those laws accordingly.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Being black is not condemned in the Bible. Being homosexual is.

And fortunately the bible and other religious dogma are legally and Constitutionally irrelevant.

Gay Americans constitute a class of persons entitled to Constitutional protections (Romer v. Evans (1996), Lawrence v. Texas (2003)), where the states and local jurisdictions may not seek to subject them to disadvantage, regardless the dogma of ignorance and hate propagated by the bible.

That isn't what the First Amendment says.

Incorrect.

Public accommodations laws are authorized by the Commerce Clause, having nothing to do with the First Amendment.

There are no Free Exercise Clause issues involved because government isn’t seeking to place restriction of religious expression:

Although a State would be "prohibiting the free exercise [of religion]" in violation of the Clause if it sought to ban the performance of (or abstention from) physical acts solely because of their religious motivation, the Clause does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a law that incidentally forbids (or requires) the performance of an act that his religious belief requires (or forbids) if the law is not specifically directed to religious practice and is otherwise constitutional as applied to those who engage in the specified act for nonreligious reasons. See, e.g., Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. 145, 166-167.

Employment Division v. Smith | LII / Legal Information Institute

Public accommodations laws seek only to regulate the markets, to ensure their integrity and the integrity of all other interrelated markets, completely unrelated to religious practice and the First Amendment.

 

[bripat9643]

And fortunately the bible and other religious dogma are legally and Constitutionally irrelevant.

Gay Americans constitute a class of persons entitled to Constitutional protections (Romer v. Evans (1996), Lawrence v. Texas (2003)), where the states and local jurisdictions may not seek to subject them to disadvantage, regardless the dogma of ignorance and hate propagated by the bible.

That isn't what the First Amendment says.

The USSC remains the Court of jurisdiction to determine what is a protected class of persons. See Article III. Big Earl has the liberty to hate, he should not have the liberty to run a public business as a private club, and deny certain groups of Americans the use of that business.

It's not a public business. It's a private business. It's private property. He should be able to server whomever he wants to serve.

 

[Peach]

That isn't what the First Amendment says.

The USSC remains the Court of jurisdiction to determine what is a protected class of persons. See Article III. Big Earl has the liberty to hate, he should not have the liberty to run a public business as a private club, and deny certain groups of Americans the use of that business.

It's not a public business. It's a private business. It's private property. He should be able to server whomever he wants to serve.

He & his customers use no public roads, utilities, police or fire services? I doubt it. Big Earl wants public benefits without responsibility to the public.

 

[justonemorevoice]

Oh bake the damn cake....collect the overpriced fee and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[DriftingSand]

Oh bake the damn cake....collect the overpriced fee and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are still some folks in the world that put principle above money.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sorry, where was the point where Gays murdered Christians by the millions?

It's a weak analogy that doesn't hold up.

"My Imaginary Friend in the Sky says it's bad" isn't a good reason to discriminate.

This has nothing to do with whether you believe in the tenets of the New Testament or not. It has to do with another person's right to.

This nation was founded by Christians who fled a system where one group of people attempted to force everyone else to comply with a single, particular set of beliefs and regulations. The King believed that he was appointed by God to be a god on earth. Anyone (including Christians) who disagreed with him were persecuted in a number of ways.

As a result, Christians of many different denominations fled Europe and came to America. Long story short, the early, Christian Americans fought, bled, and died as a means to create a nation where folks could be free to believe what they wanted without persecution or retribution. You can thank a bunch of Christians for your freedom to think and speak what you wish. Christian bakers, too, get to enjoy the same freedom.

This country was founded by Rich Deists who didn't want to pay their taxes and wanted to keep raping their slaves. It's really not much to be proud of when people talk smack about "Freedom" and "Equality" and then go home and whip another person because he's their property and didn't pick enough cotton that day.

You are perfectly free to believe what you believe. But when you run a business as a public accommodation and other citizens are paying for the infrastructure for you to have that business, you do not have the right to discriminate against customers based on their race, sexual orientation or anything else.

 

[Peach]

Oh bake the damn cake....collect the overpriced fee and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are still some folks in the world that put principle above money.

What principle is there in bigotry? How does the existence of gay humans impact the liberty of heterosexual people?

 

[justonemorevoice]

Oh bake the damn cake....collect the overpriced fee and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are still some folks in the world that put principle above money.

Lighten up people....i was being facetious. :*)

And....its a freaking cake. Its not like they asked you to stand in.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The mistake that most are making is to incorrectly perceive the situation as one where the law was suddenly ‘sprung on’ the business owner.

This is in fact not the case.

However trite it’s nonetheless true: ignorance of the law is no excuse.

That the business owner was unaware of the law, or failed to understand how the law applies to him and other business owners, or the Constitutional jurisprudence that supports the law, none are mitigating circumstances allowing the business owner to ignore or violate the law, nor does it excuse his desire to do so, to discriminate against gay patrons based upon ‘religious beliefs.’

 

[JoeB131]

.

Always amusing to see those who support illegal immigration and "sanctuary" cities and states, suddenly so concerned about adherence with "the law".

.

The sign of a losing argument, trying to change the subject.

 

[DriftingSand]

I'm sorry, where was the point where Gays murdered Christians by the millions?

It's a weak analogy that doesn't hold up.

"My Imaginary Friend in the Sky says it's bad" isn't a good reason to discriminate.

This has nothing to do with whether you believe in the tenets of the New Testament or not. It has to do with another person's right to.

This nation was founded by Christians who fled a system where one group of people attempted to force everyone else to comply with a single, particular set of beliefs and regulations. The King believed that he was appointed by God to be a god on earth. Anyone (including Christians) who disagreed with him were persecuted in a number of ways.

As a result, Christians of many different denominations fled Europe and came to America. Long story short, the early, Christian Americans fought, bled, and died as a means to create a nation where folks could be free to believe what they wanted without persecution or retribution. You can thank a bunch of Christians for your freedom to think and speak what you wish. Christian bakers, too, get to enjoy the same freedom.

This country was founded by Rich Deists who didn't want to pay their taxes and wanted to keep raping their slaves. It's really not much to be proud of when people talk smack about "Freedom" and "Equality" and then go home and whip another person because he's their property and didn't pick enough cotton that day.

You are perfectly free to believe what you believe. But when you run a business as a public accommodation and other citizens are paying for the infrastructure for you to have that business, you do not have the right to discriminate against customers based on their race, sexual orientation or anything else.

Yes ... we've heard you tired and oft-used, incorrect description of the founders that fought and died for your freedom to be stupid.

Most didn't own slaves. Some let their slaves go. Most who still had slaves treated them well. My earliest "white" ancestor came to American in the mid 1600s as a slave. History also shows that there were black slaves owners. History shows that blacks sold their black neighbors into slavery.

I'm thinking about opening a bakery just to prove that I can bake a cake for whomever I choose. Just say no to the aggressive, gay agenda.

 

[DriftingSand]

.

Always amusing to see those who support illegal immigration and "sanctuary" cities and states, suddenly so concerned about adherence with "the law".

.

The sign of a losing argument, trying to change the subject.

Are you saying that you lost your argument? I concur.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Always amusing to see those who support illegal immigration and "sanctuary" cities and states, suddenly so concerned about adherence with "the law".

.

The sign of a losing argument, trying to change the subject.

Of course I've lost the argument. That's a given. As I've already said, in 15 to 20 years you're going to have the Social Democracy and authoritarian centralized bureaucracy for which you yearn. People will be afraid to speak their mind for fear of immediate and direct retribution. Conformity of thought will be bred into our very culture.

I'm not arguing, Joe. You're going to get your way. Not sure what else I can say there.

.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Of course I've lost the argument. That's a given. As I've already said, in 15 to 20 years you're going to have the Social Democracy and authoritarian centralized bureaucracy for which you yearn. People will be afraid to speak their mind for fear of immediate and direct retribution. Conformity of thought will be bred into our very culture.

I'm not arguing, Joe. You're going to get your way. Not sure what else I can say there.

.

Guy, we have more conformity of thought in the past than we have now.

I'm still not sure what you are arguing here for? That you want bigots and homophobes to proudly display their hatred?

 

[Mac1958]

[

Of course I've lost the argument. That's a given. As I've already said, in 15 to 20 years you're going to have the Social Democracy and authoritarian centralized bureaucracy for which you yearn. People will be afraid to speak their mind for fear of immediate and direct retribution. Conformity of thought will be bred into our very culture.

I'm not arguing, Joe. You're going to get your way. Not sure what else I can say there.

.

Guy, we have more conformity of thought in the past than we have now.

I'm still not sure what you are arguing here for? That you want bigots and homophobes to proudly display their hatred?

My point is the same as always: I want to know who the crazies are, where they are, what they are thinking and who agrees with them. And nothing flushes them out better or faster than the freedom to say what they are thinking. I can then engage in the heavy lifting of trying to change their hearts and minds. I'm not afraid of having them be heard.

Oh, I could go on, but there is no reason to. I've said all this a hundred times, and it's always taken out of context or distorted or spun.

I just hate seeing what you folks are doing -- especially from the side of the spectrum that has always claimed to value diversity and inclusion and freedom of expression and the challenging of the norm -- and I certainly realize there's nothing I can do about it. I've pretty much completed my grieving process for this country, now I'm just observing the decay.

.

 

[Peach]

I'm sorry, where was the point where Gays murdered Christians by the millions?

It's a weak analogy that doesn't hold up.

"My Imaginary Friend in the Sky says it's bad" isn't a good reason to discriminate.

This has nothing to do with whether you believe in the tenets of the New Testament or not. It has to do with another person's right to.

This nation was founded by Christians who fled a system where one group of people attempted to force everyone else to comply with a single, particular set of beliefs and regulations. The King believed that he was appointed by God to be a god on earth. Anyone (including Christians) who disagreed with him were persecuted in a number of ways.

As a result, Christians of many different denominations fled Europe and came to America. Long story short, the early, Christian Americans fought, bled, and died as a means to create a nation where folks could be free to believe what they wanted without persecution or retribution. You can thank a bunch of Christians for your freedom to think and speak what you wish. Christian bakers, too, get to enjoy the same freedom.

This country was founded by Rich Deists who didn't want to pay their taxes and wanted to keep raping their slaves. It's really not much to be proud of when people talk smack about "Freedom" and "Equality" and then go home and whip another person because he's their property and didn't pick enough cotton that day.

You are perfectly free to believe what you believe. But when you run a business as a public accommodation and other citizens are paying for the infrastructure for you to have that business, you do not have the right to discriminate against customers based on their race, sexual orientation or anything else.

John Adams never owned slaves, nor did Hamilton, Sam Adams, nor Paine. Franklin became an abolitionist in 1787. Jefferson despised slavery, but was broke most of his life. He freed some slaves, as many as he could, due to his debts, in his Last Will and Testament. Slavery was an issue that almost ended the 1st Constitutional Convention. In the end, the need for the Southern states decided the issue. But it festered until the Civil War. Washington had a provision in his Will freeing his slaves after Martha Washington's death. She did not wait, freed all slaves 9 months after his death. So slavery was not as cut & dried as you believe.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Oh bake the damn cake....collect the overpriced fee and laugh all the way to the bank.

There are still some folks in the world that put principle above money.

There is no ‘principle’ in violating the law, nor is there ‘principle’ in seeking to discriminate against fellow Americans simply for who they are.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Panel: Baker must make cakes for gay weddings


You have to, or else!
\

The bakery owner has nothing to worry about. All he needs to do is just say "yes" and then forget about the cake. When they complain, he just says "oops, sorry forgot. Here's your deposit back"..
Or, take down any references to wedding cakes from his website and get out of the wedding cake end of the business.
Bakers don't make much off these things anyway. And according to an acquaintance of mine, he doesn't do wedding cakes that often because people complain too much. Mostly about minute details. Even after most of the cake was consumed, some customers would complain after the fact anyway. He got tired of not making any money because to be nice he'd knock off a bunch of the price. So he stopped doing them.