Bearing False Witness

[irosie91]

PS---a good catholic in a court of the Inquisition could always
MAKE A DEAL----by "turning in"----a marrano or fake morisco

 

[irosie91]

Spanish Inquisition wasn't that bad if you had calluses on your feet, no gnads, elastic skin, and high pain tolerances. Right?

For Heretics to go through readmisson into the Catholic church Raymond VII of Toulouse's and others were forced bare footed, a nose tied around the neck, and shirtless. (I am told this was how heretics were dressed before burnings).
They were paraded around the church a certain number of times and scourged by a church official.
Pope Innocent III 1161-1216 "Use against heretics the spiritual sword of excommunication, and if this does not prove effective, use the material sword."
The Art of Medieval Torture (this material sword) Torture was enthusiastically applied by early Church officials and noblemen in their employ for four reasons:
To force confessions or secret information from those accused of heresy or witchcraft, whether guilty or innocent; To punish or discourage dissent and intellectual freedom; To persuade Jews(who by the way they claim follow the same God), Muslims, and other non-believers to accept Christianity; and To enjoy the sadistic pleasure of inflicting agony, including experimenting with newly devised or perfected techniques of torture. Devices used by the Church: the foot was fitted into an oversized COPPER BOOT, boiling oil was slowly poured into the boot to strip the flesh from the bones.

Another device of the Church: was the infamous viselike FOOT PRESS which was slowly tightened by the crank to crush feet between its solid iron plates, which were lined with hundreds of razor-sharp spikes to make the torture even more intense. More sadistic torture could be found in the way they would devise FOOT ROASTING, which was the favorite torture of the Spanish Inquisition. Immobilized in the stocks, the soles of the victim's bare feet were thickly basted with lard and slowly broiled over red-hot coals.

Everyone has seen "the RACK" in movies: The rollers of this RACK pulled the victim's wrists and ankles in opposite directions to tear his body apart. A spiked drum might be installed to disembowel the face-downward victim. There was also a bench held which victim immobile while he was slowly SKINNED ALIVE with a scalpel-like instrument. Salt was rubbed into the raw flesh to make for a more horrifying experience.
They also had these toothed iron TESTICLE CRUSHERS slowly squeezed the victim's testicles until they were destroyed. *(note- today singers use these to hit their high notes)*

Surely we see there is a pattern here,
if it walks like satan, talks like satan, acts like satan & admits it is satan, off shoot sects admit the founders were satanist, then it is Satanic.

Do you have a source for this other than a movie? I didn't think so.

You are ignoring the history and promoting the propaganda. Proof, please.

OMG the denial is unbelievable, it just makes the newbies look just as sick as the ones who performed these stunts.
Proof is in the devices pictures along side the words but I did not save the pics and I know you want them to revel over, as it probably makes your nipples hard.

hashev----clement is reading the redacted records stored in
the Vatican Vault

No, I am reading the work of historians.

I expected that this thread might receive this kind of reception, people do not discard their prejudices easily.

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

 

[Clement]

they appear in Medieval Woodcuts. There are many approaches to an understanding of history. Art is a very significant record of reality. The last place to look for accurate records is the vault of the Vatican

What is also written in records of the time is that even during the periods of Inquisition, people deliberately blasphemed in secular courts in order to get their cases turned over to a more lenient court. The lenient court they wanted was the Church court.

The point is not to excuse or overlook facts of human existence. People are sinners. Sometimes people in authority use bad judgment, and sometimes otherwise good people, when filled with zeal lose their balance. This is oftentimes followed by people (even historians) with an agenda painting with much too broad a brush.

Back in those days the secular authorities used torture, the Church court less so, mainly because they didn't think it had any value if you really wanted to know the truth. This is not to mention that for some reason the people of today want to anachronistically judge ancient history by their own standards (if they have any).

 

[Clement]

You fell into your own trap, by setting the standard of proof there were pictographs from 1500's remember there is no camera back then. Now I'll show actual pics of devices from that era and events.
Remember the topic is about bearing false testimony which the OP and you Penelope did just that, but worse they have NO EVIDENCE OF JESUS EXISTiNG AND THE TALL TALE EVENTS.(USING their own standards and reasoning)=traped by your own move=checkmate.
The difference is, yeah they didn't have cameras, but they never claimed to be gods to produce pictures in any era or time line.
Bazinga!
View attachment 88070
View attachment 88071 View attachment 88072

Those are from someone's twisted imagination.

of course the machines of torture used by the catholic church did arise in the twisted imaginations of priests and nuns----then they were manufactured and then they were used whilst the "virgins" moaned in orgiastic delight

How many times do I have to demand proof from you?

 

[irosie91]

they appear in Medieval Woodcuts. There are many approaches to an understanding of history. Art is a very significant record of reality. The last place to look for accurate records is the vault of the Vatican

What is also written in records of the time is that even during the periods of Inquisition, people deliberately blasphemed in secular courts in order to get their cases turned over to a more lenient court. The lenient court they wanted was the Church court.

The point is not to excuse or overlook facts of human existence. People are sinners. Sometimes people in authority use bad judgment, and sometimes otherwise good people, when filled with zeal lose their balance. This is oftentimes followed by people (even historians) with an agenda painting with much too broad a brush.

the tortures of the Inquistion on NON CATHOLICS and catholic heretics who refuse to repent were mediated by THE POPE.
(also homosexuals)

 

[Clement]

Spanish Inquisition wasn't that bad if you had calluses on your feet, no gnads, elastic skin, and high pain tolerances. Right?

For Heretics to go through readmisson into the Catholic church Raymond VII of Toulouse's and others were forced bare footed, a nose tied around the neck, and shirtless. (I am told this was how heretics were dressed before burnings).
They were paraded around the church a certain number of times and scourged by a church official.
Pope Innocent III 1161-1216 "Use against heretics the spiritual sword of excommunication, and if this does not prove effective, use the material sword."
The Art of Medieval Torture (this material sword) Torture was enthusiastically applied by early Church officials and noblemen in their employ for four reasons:
To force confessions or secret information from those accused of heresy or witchcraft, whether guilty or innocent; To punish or discourage dissent and intellectual freedom; To persuade Jews(who by the way they claim follow the same God), Muslims, and other non-believers to accept Christianity; and To enjoy the sadistic pleasure of inflicting agony, including experimenting with newly devised or perfected techniques of torture. Devices used by the Church: the foot was fitted into an oversized COPPER BOOT, boiling oil was slowly poured into the boot to strip the flesh from the bones.

Another device of the Church: was the infamous viselike FOOT PRESS which was slowly tightened by the crank to crush feet between its solid iron plates, which were lined with hundreds of razor-sharp spikes to make the torture even more intense. More sadistic torture could be found in the way they would devise FOOT ROASTING, which was the favorite torture of the Spanish Inquisition. Immobilized in the stocks, the soles of the victim's bare feet were thickly basted with lard and slowly broiled over red-hot coals.

Everyone has seen "the RACK" in movies: The rollers of this RACK pulled the victim's wrists and ankles in opposite directions to tear his body apart. A spiked drum might be installed to disembowel the face-downward victim. There was also a bench held which victim immobile while he was slowly SKINNED ALIVE with a scalpel-like instrument. Salt was rubbed into the raw flesh to make for a more horrifying experience.
They also had these toothed iron TESTICLE CRUSHERS slowly squeezed the victim's testicles until they were destroyed. *(note- today singers use these to hit their high notes)*

Surely we see there is a pattern here,
if it walks like satan, talks like satan, acts like satan & admits it is satan, off shoot sects admit the founders were satanist, then it is Satanic.

Do you have a source for this other than a movie? I didn't think so.

You are ignoring the history and promoting the propaganda. Proof, please.

OMG the denial is unbelievable, it just makes the newbies look just as sick as the ones who performed these stunts.
Proof is in the devices pictures along side the words but I did not save the pics and I know you want them to revel over, as it probably makes your nipples hard.

hashev----clement is reading the redacted records stored in
the Vatican Vault

No, I am reading the work of historians.

I expected that this thread might receive this kind of reception, people do not discard their prejudices easily.

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

Well, this argument is over, Godwin's Law is in effect. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

 

[irosie91]

they appear in Medieval Woodcuts. There are many approaches to an understanding of history. Art is a very significant record of reality. The last place to look for accurate records is the vault of the Vatican

What is also written in records of the time is that even during the periods of Inquisition, people deliberately blasphemed in secular courts in order to get their cases turned over to a more lenient court. The lenient court they wanted was the Church court.

The point is not to excuse or overlook facts of human existence. People are sinners. Sometimes people in authority use bad judgment, and sometimes otherwise good people, when filled with zeal lose their balance. This is oftentimes followed by people (even historians) with an agenda painting with much too broad a brush.

Back in those days the secular authorities used torture, the Church court less so, mainly because they didn't think it had any value if you really wanted to know the truth. This is not to mention that for some reason the people of today want to anachronistically judge ancient history by their own standards (if they have any).

that is true----the secular authorities in the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE also used torture to extract confessions. Following
the "reformation" Great Britain continued in the catholic tradition of the use of torture. Just what point have you made? I did not suggest that HENRY VIII suddenly became a nice guy when he invented the Anglican church----
that church was simply CATHOLIC WITH HENRY AS POPE.
The protestants of SALEM, MASS were just as disgusting

 

[irosie91]

Do you have a source for this other than a movie? I didn't think so.

You are ignoring the history and promoting the propaganda. Proof, please.

OMG the denial is unbelievable, it just makes the newbies look just as sick as the ones who performed these stunts.
Proof is in the devices pictures along side the words but I did not save the pics and I know you want them to revel over, as it probably makes your nipples hard.

hashev----clement is reading the redacted records stored in
the Vatican Vault

No, I am reading the work of historians.

I expected that this thread might receive this kind of reception, people do not discard their prejudices easily.

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

Well, this argument is over, Godwin's Law is in effect. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

what a cop-out and one eyed jacks are wild. The POPE's POKER LAW

 

[Clement]

You may be interested in these other titles:

Four Witnesses

The Apostasy That Wasn't

And I don't agree with you, I am non RC and again, I am more interested in the truth than propaganda. The reality is, every mainstream Christian denomination owes it's existence to the RCC, and I don't mean the non-Christian cults from the 1800's and early 1900's.

what does the fact that the RCC was the first Christian church mean to you? OWES ITS EXISTENCE?------you mean other wise all Baptists would be dead if NOT FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH-----they might have been happier as hindus

er.... catholicism existed before other sects of christianity which are "protestant" or "reformation".

that's simple fact. i'm not certain why it seems to be putting you into a tizzy

TIZZY? not in a tizzy------"OWES" is a loaded word. "came before" is the simple fact

It's a figure of speech, deal with it.

 

[irosie91]

You may be interested in these other titles:

Four Witnesses

The Apostasy That Wasn't

And I don't agree with you, I am non RC and again, I am more interested in the truth than propaganda. The reality is, every mainstream Christian denomination owes it's existence to the RCC, and I don't mean the non-Christian cults from the 1800's and early 1900's.

what does the fact that the RCC was the first Christian church mean to you? OWES ITS EXISTENCE?------you mean other wise all Baptists would be dead if NOT FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH-----they might have been happier as hindus

er.... catholicism existed before other sects of christianity which are "protestant" or "reformation".

that's simple fact. i'm not certain why it seems to be putting you into a tizzy

TIZZY? not in a tizzy------"OWES" is a loaded word. "came before" is the simple fact

It's a figure of speech, deal with it.

words are very powerful -------and also important to
persons with any level of discernment. -------there is
nothing which with to deal-----no one in the world OWES
anything to the catholic church

 

[Clement]

OMG the denial is unbelievable, it just makes the newbies look just as sick as the ones who performed these stunts.
Proof is in the devices pictures along side the words but I did not save the pics and I know you want them to revel over, as it probably makes your nipples hard.

hashev----clement is reading the redacted records stored in
the Vatican Vault

No, I am reading the work of historians.

I expected that this thread might receive this kind of reception, people do not discard their prejudices easily.

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

Well, this argument is over, Godwin's Law is in effect. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

what a cop-out and one eyed jacks are wild. The POPE's POKER LAW

Nope, the longer an internet discussion goes on the greater the chances of someone invoking the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy, which is a version of ad hominem, ad misericordiam, or a fallacy of irrelevance. Stay on point.

 

[irosie91]

they appear in Medieval Woodcuts. There are many approaches to an understanding of history. Art is a very significant record of reality. The last place to look for accurate records is the vault of the Vatican

What is also written in records of the time is that even during the periods of Inquisition, people deliberately blasphemed in secular courts in order to get their cases turned over to a more lenient court. The lenient court they wanted was the Church court.

The point is not to excuse or overlook facts of human existence. People are sinners. Sometimes people in authority use bad judgment, and sometimes otherwise good people, when filled with zeal lose their balance. This is oftentimes followed by people (even historians) with an agenda painting with much too broad a brush.

Back in those days the secular authorities used torture, the Church court less so, mainly because they didn't think it had any value if you really wanted to know the truth. This is not to mention that for some reason the people of today want to anachronistically judge ancient history by their own standards (if they have any).

btw----what are you calling "ANCIENT HISTORY"? -------

 

[Clement]

You may be interested in these other titles:

Four Witnesses

The Apostasy That Wasn't

And I don't agree with you, I am non RC and again, I am more interested in the truth than propaganda. The reality is, every mainstream Christian denomination owes it's existence to the RCC, and I don't mean the non-Christian cults from the 1800's and early 1900's.

what does the fact that the RCC was the first Christian church mean to you? OWES ITS EXISTENCE?------you mean other wise all Baptists would be dead if NOT FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH-----they might have been happier as hindus

er.... catholicism existed before other sects of christianity which are "protestant" or "reformation".

that's simple fact. i'm not certain why it seems to be putting you into a tizzy

TIZZY? not in a tizzy------"OWES" is a loaded word. "came before" is the simple fact

It's a figure of speech, deal with it.

words are very powerful -------and also important to
persons with any level of discernment. -------there is
nothing which with to deal-----no one in the world OWES
anything to the catholic church

My point stands, without the RCC there would have been no "Protestant" church, by definition. Deal with that.

 

[Clement]

they appear in Medieval Woodcuts. There are many approaches to an understanding of history. Art is a very significant record of reality. The last place to look for accurate records is the vault of the Vatican

What is also written in records of the time is that even during the periods of Inquisition, people deliberately blasphemed in secular courts in order to get their cases turned over to a more lenient court. The lenient court they wanted was the Church court.

The point is not to excuse or overlook facts of human existence. People are sinners. Sometimes people in authority use bad judgment, and sometimes otherwise good people, when filled with zeal lose their balance. This is oftentimes followed by people (even historians) with an agenda painting with much too broad a brush.

Back in those days the secular authorities used torture, the Church court less so, mainly because they didn't think it had any value if you really wanted to know the truth. This is not to mention that for some reason the people of today want to anachronistically judge ancient history by their own standards (if they have any).

btw----what are you calling "ANCIENT HISTORY"? -------

Changing he subject again?

 

[irosie91]

hashev----clement is reading the redacted records stored in
the Vatican Vault

No, I am reading the work of historians.

I expected that this thread might receive this kind of reception, people do not discard their prejudices easily.

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

Well, this argument is over, Godwin's Law is in effect. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

what a cop-out and one eyed jacks are wild. The POPE's POKER LAW

Nope, the longer an internet discussion goes on the greater the chances of someone invoking the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy, which is a version of ad hominem, ad misericordiam, or a fallacy of irrelevance. Stay on point.

Hitler----emperor of the third Reich ---aka Holy Roman empire is a irrelevant? He did not think so -----otherwise he would not have named is empire THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE nor would he have adopted CANON law

 

[irosie91]

what does the fact that the RCC was the first Christian church mean to you? OWES ITS EXISTENCE?------you mean other wise all Baptists would be dead if NOT FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH-----they might have been happier as hindus

er.... catholicism existed before other sects of christianity which are "protestant" or "reformation".

that's simple fact. i'm not certain why it seems to be putting you into a tizzy

TIZZY? not in a tizzy------"OWES" is a loaded word. "came before" is the simple fact

It's a figure of speech, deal with it.

words are very powerful -------and also important to
persons with any level of discernment. -------there is
nothing which with to deal-----no one in the world OWES
anything to the catholic church

My point stands, without the RCC there would have been no "Protestant" church, by definition. Deal with that.

oh----that means that the Protestant church OWES something
to the catholic church------I am not at all sure that Christianity
would have not become something like Seventh day Adventist is today had Constantine not stepped in and FUCKED THINGS UP.
Do those of my relatives who speak Spanish "owe" something to the whore "queen Isabella" for creating the circumstances that led to the language Ladino?

 

[Clement]

No, I am reading the work of historians.

I expected that this thread might receive this kind of reception, people do not discard their prejudices easily.

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

Well, this argument is over, Godwin's Law is in effect. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

what a cop-out and one eyed jacks are wild. The POPE's POKER LAW

Nope, the longer an internet discussion goes on the greater the chances of someone invoking the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy, which is a version of ad hominem, ad misericordiam, or a fallacy of irrelevance. Stay on point.

Hitler----emperor of the third Reich ---aka Holy Roman empire is a irrelevant? He did not think so -----otherwise he would not have named is empire THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE nor would he have adopted CANON law

Once more: prove this garbage.

 

[Clement]

er.... catholicism existed before other sects of christianity which are "protestant" or "reformation".

that's simple fact. i'm not certain why it seems to be putting you into a tizzy

TIZZY? not in a tizzy------"OWES" is a loaded word. "came before" is the simple fact

It's a figure of speech, deal with it.

words are very powerful -------and also important to
persons with any level of discernment. -------there is
nothing which with to deal-----no one in the world OWES
anything to the catholic church

My point stands, without the RCC there would have been no "Protestant" church, by definition. Deal with that.

oh----that means that the Protestant church OWES something
to the catholic church------I am not at all sure that Christianity
would have not become something like Seventh day Adventist is today had Constantine not stepped in and FUCKED THINGS UP.
Do those of my relatives who speak Spanish "owe" something to the whore "queen Isabella" for creating the circumstances that led to the language Ladino?

Are you deliberately trying to get this thread closed? You know as little about Adventism as you know about Catholicism, or you would know that 1st century Christianity had no resemblance to Adventism.

 

[irosie91]

I have relatives who speak Spanish-----to each other----but never lived in a Spanish speaking land-----their ANCESTORS
did---500 years ago-----how did that happen?--------no historical reason?--
BTW-----adolf hitler was also a REAL PERSON (in fact he was catholic--------and leader of the THIRD REICH (aka --holy roman empire)

Well, this argument is over, Godwin's Law is in effect. Reductio ad Hitlerum.

what a cop-out and one eyed jacks are wild. The POPE's POKER LAW

Nope, the longer an internet discussion goes on the greater the chances of someone invoking the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy, which is a version of ad hominem, ad misericordiam, or a fallacy of irrelevance. Stay on point.

Hitler----emperor of the third Reich ---aka Holy Roman empire is a irrelevant? He did not think so -----otherwise he would not have named is empire THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE nor would he have adopted CANON law

Once more: prove this garbage.

what "garbage"------Adolf did NOT refer to his empire as
THE THIRD REICH? well------there is nothing I can do
to help you out of your dense ignorance-------just google THIRD REICH ---and first reich and second reich------while you are at it-------google "laws imposed on non Christians in the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE"----then review the Nuremburg laws

 

[irosie91]

TIZZY? not in a tizzy------"OWES" is a loaded word. "came before" is the simple fact

It's a figure of speech, deal with it.

words are very powerful -------and also important to
persons with any level of discernment. -------there is
nothing which with to deal-----no one in the world OWES
anything to the catholic church

My point stands, without the RCC there would have been no "Protestant" church, by definition. Deal with that.

oh----that means that the Protestant church OWES something
to the catholic church------I am not at all sure that Christianity
would have not become something like Seventh day Adventist is today had Constantine not stepped in and FUCKED THINGS UP.
Do those of my relatives who speak Spanish "owe" something to the whore "queen Isabella" for creating the circumstances that led to the language Ladino?

Are you deliberately trying to get this thread closed? You know as little about Adventism as you know about Catholicism, or you would know that 1st century Christianity had no resemblance to Adventism.

actually there are some similarities between Adventism and the PRE CONSTANTINE church-------. I did not say it was
the same-------I conjectured a possible OTHER path for the
pre Constantine Christian movement