Beer, Cigarettes & Marijuana -- What's the difference?

[saveliberty]

What the fuck do you do then?




THANK SWEET LORD JESUS. There's no telling how many lives you've saved already. Keep it up!



Because when people kill out of negligence - they should be put down like dogs

When corporations kill out of negligence - we should buy more of their products to help them out.

I am happy with my life, I don't need to 'escape' from reality with drink or drugs.

Driving under the influence is not 'negligence', it is premeditated murder. They are aware of the risk to others and choose to do it anyway. So, yep, they should be put down....

....Especially if they're alcoholics, right??

Then, we could keep regressing....and, start burning epileptics, at the stake (again), for being possessed!!!

What a wonderful, little World it'd be, if we could exterm...er, eliminate ALL sick-people!!! (...The-sooner-the-better!!)

​

So you consider allowing those under the influence killing innocent people progress? Further, you don't want to discourage the activity by instituting a large penalty?

You can kill someone and pay less than $4,000.

 

[geauxtohell]

FWIW:

"Medicinal Marijuana" is on the ballot in my state, and I'll vote for it simply because I see it as a step towards legalization.

However, I have real problems with the concept of medicinal marijuana. The medicinal benefits for MJ are relatively slim. It seems to be a good option for chemo patients and other people with terminal conditions.

However, legalizing medicinal MJ basically is going to create a bunch of patients who are going to come up with bullshit excuses to prompt doctors into making bullshit excuses to get a MJ script. If anyone doubts that, look at what has happened in California. Doctors don't want to be people's "Dr. Feelgood" or write scripts for something whose only real purpose is to get people high, especially when their are other drugs that would work better whose effects have been studied.

Another example, and I see this a lot as a med student, is "medicinal opium" versus other pain relievers, i.e. NSAIDs or acetaminophen. I think naproxen is a great drug (Aleve) to control pain. Narcotic pain medications exist for pain that is so extreme it can't be managed adequately by NSAIDs. Basically, save for few conditions (i.e. sickle cell anemia, or recovery from major trauma/surgery), I don't see why any opiate should be used outside of an inpatient setting. Yet, there more people than anyone would like to admit who are hooked on percocet for something that an NSAID could control just as well. The problem is that now they are hooked on opiates and the withdrawal process is going to be painful for them as well.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I am happy with my life, I don't need to 'escape' from reality with drink or drugs.

Driving under the influence is not 'negligence', it is premeditated murder. They are aware of the risk to others and choose to do it anyway. So, yep, they should be put down....

....Especially if they're alcoholics, right??

Then, we could keep regressing....and, start burning epileptics, at the stake (again), for being possessed!!!

What a wonderful, little World it'd be, if we could exterm...er, eliminate ALL sick-people!!! (...The-sooner-the-better!!)

​

So you consider allowing those under the influence killing innocent people progress? Further, you don't want to discourage the activity by instituting a large penalty?

You can kill someone and pay less than $4,000.

Nope!!!

I figure....if someone can't manage their drinking, without driving, they probably need to be confined!

Everyone, I've known (to the person), who had substance-issues, had personal-issues/problems loooooooooooooooooooong before the drugs (including alcohol) came-along!!

If we, as a society, are satisfied (outta sheer-laziness) to keep putting band-aids on the symptoms ('cause that's all addiction/dependence are), we can't very-well complain that these issues won't go-away (on their own).

Ya' wanna start exterminating people with health/psychological-issues....to make Life more-palatable/convenient, for everyone-else....just say so.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

FWIW:

"Medicinal Marijuana" is on the ballot in my state, and I'll vote for it simply because I see it as a step towards legalization.

However, I have real problems with the concept of medicinal marijuana. The medicinal benefits for MJ are relatively slim. It seems to be a good option for chemo patients and other people with terminal conditions.

However, legalizing medicinal MJ basically is going to create a bunch of patients who are going to come up with bullshit excuses to prompt doctors into making bullshit excuses to get a MJ script. If anyone doubts that, look at what has happened in California. Doctors don't want to be people's "Dr. Feelgood" or write scripts for something whose only real purpose is to get people high, especially when their are other drugs that would work better whose effects have been studied.

Ah, yes, because....after ALL...the pharmaceutical-indu$try should be PRIORITY 1!!!!!

​

 

[Foxfyre]

Last month we attended the funeral/burial of my husband's nephew, dead of lung cancer and brain cancer almost certainly attributable to his cigarette smoking. I lost my mother and other loved ones to the same syndrome.

We have two nephews in prison, both due to criminal acts generated by their craving for the illegal drugs to which they are addicted. Both had numerous opportunities to dry out and get straight prior to prison. Neither was able to stay off the drugs which drove them both to criminal activity again.

There really aren't all that many folks in prison just because they are users or possessed the drug. Almost all are sentenced due to illegal activity to support their habits or intent to sell. Would legalization change that? It would certainly reduce the arrests for possession, and possibly make some crime (stealing) less 'necessary'. But. . . .

--Many crimes are committed by addicts to get drugs, not because their drugs are illegal.
--Decriminalizing drug use does not reduce their addictive power or signifcantly reduce drug trafficking. The black market would still exist for those unable to get 'enough' through legal means.
--Impaired judgment frequently encourages violent behavior and sexual assault.
--Drugged driving is becoming more of a problem every year; 11 million Americans reported driving under the influence of drugs in 2004.

And just spend a bit of time at an AA meeting or alcohol rehab center or hospital emergency room or work with families of alcoholics and you will see first hand the devastating, cruel effects of alcohol abuse.

As for those countries that have legalized drugs, the results are mixed, but the picture isn't all that rosy including the Netherlands: See here:
The Experience of Foreign Countries and Drug Legalization

 

[geauxtohell]

FWIW:

"Medicinal Marijuana" is on the ballot in my state, and I'll vote for it simply because I see it as a step towards legalization.

However, I have real problems with the concept of medicinal marijuana. The medicinal benefits for MJ are relatively slim. It seems to be a good option for chemo patients and other people with terminal conditions.

However, legalizing medicinal MJ basically is going to create a bunch of patients who are going to come up with bullshit excuses to prompt doctors into making bullshit excuses to get a MJ script. If anyone doubts that, look at what has happened in California. Doctors don't want to be people's "Dr. Feelgood" or write scripts for something whose only real purpose is to get people high, especially when their are other drugs that would work better whose effects have been studied.

Ah, yes, because....after ALL...the pharmaceutical-indu$try should be PRIORITY 1!!!!!

​

No. Medical science should be number one. I think they should just legalize MJ so we can commence with the bullshit about it's medicinal benefits. Especially when those benefits haven't been fully established or have been proven to be more beneficial than other medications. If MJ was being dispensed in California for the few items where it truly has a medicinal benefit, it wouldn't be a problem. That's not the case.

Furthermore, if I were concerned with big pharma's bottom line, I wouldn't have stated that OTC NSAIDs were preferable to prescription narcs for pain management.

 

[Care4all]

I am happy with my life, I don't need to 'escape' from reality with drink or drugs.

Driving under the influence is not 'negligence', it is premeditated murder. They are aware of the risk to others and choose to do it anyway. So, yep, they should be put down....

....Especially if they're alcoholics, right??

Then, we could keep regressing....and, start burning epileptics, at the stake (again), for being possessed!!!

What a wonderful, little World it'd be, if we could exterm...er, eliminate ALL sick-people!!! (...The-sooner-the-better!!)

​

So you consider allowing those under the influence killing innocent people progress? Further, you don't want to discourage the activity by instituting a large penalty?

You can kill someone and pay less than $4,000.

however the person was killed, the person is dead, and if another person is responsible for said death, then they should be punished....as someone recklessly using a firearm, as someone talking on their cell phone when they hit the person and killed them as someone drunk or drugged out, that killed the person....the person is no more dead....and no less at the hands of another.....is how i see it....we do not need a gazillion more laws to take care of the problem...we have laws in place already for that kind of stuff....you kill someone, and are at fault, you pay the price...both criminal and civil, with lawsuits.

I do not drink* or smoke pot... I have no problems with people that do....I still think it is unconstitutional and an overreach of gvt.

*edit:
regularly...I will drink on occasion...vacation, I'm a slush! but I am not driving anywhere, just plopped under a tiki hut, on a lounge chair!

 

[GHook93]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

First, your statistics on Pot related accidential deaths is beyond disingenious and beyond insulting for us to believe it to be 0! Pot is mind altering and believe it or not it slows your wits, makes your paranoid and well makes you stupid. Even when not smoking pot, it has lasting effect on pot heads, because the THC stores in your brain cells and slows them down.

As a former pothead (meaning I smoked everyday) for many years. I know the effects pot has on your wits, nerves, and brain. I have droven while stoned many times. Not anywhere as dangerous as driving drunk. Not even close, but you are not all there and no amount of justification can say you are.

Nevertheless I agree with your point, pot is a hell of a lot less dangerous and detrimental to society then alcohol is and it kills 10s of thousands less people then Tobacco. Not to mention its beyond a miracle drug to chemo patients. I for one can't think of ANY good reasons why pot is illegal (but then again I'm for overturning the Harrison Act and decriminalizing Cocaine, Herion, Shroms and Pot)!

 

[geauxtohell]

because the THC stores in your brain cells and slows them down.

THC distributes to body fat. Not braincells.

 

[Foxfyre]

....Especially if they're alcoholics, right??

Then, we could keep regressing....and, start burning epileptics, at the stake (again), for being possessed!!!

What a wonderful, little World it'd be, if we could exterm...er, eliminate ALL sick-people!!! (...The-sooner-the-better!!)

​

So you consider allowing those under the influence killing innocent people progress? Further, you don't want to discourage the activity by instituting a large penalty?

You can kill someone and pay less than $4,000.

however the person was killed, the person is dead, and if another person is responsible for said death, then they should be punished....as someone recklessly using a firearm, as someone talking on their cell phone when they hit the person and killed them as someone drunk or drugged out, that killed the person....the person is no more dead....and no less at the hands of another.....is how i see it....we do not need a gazillion more laws to take care of the problem...we have laws in place already for that kind of stuff....you kill someone, and are at fault, you pay the price...both criminal and civil, with lawsuits.

I do not drink or smoke pot... I have no problems with people that do....I still think it is unconstitutional and an overreach of gvt.

I have a hard time quarreling with this, but I do think we have to have means to protect the innocent before they get hurt too. I'm still struggling with how best that can be done. I do know that consequences for hurting another while under the influence should be swift, severe, and absolute whatever means we use to accomplish that.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

As for those countries that have legalized drugs, the results are mixed, but the picture isn't all that rosy including the Netherlands: See here:
The Experience of Foreign Countries and Drug Legalization

How 'bout something a little-more-current.

I look at it this way.....If someone prefers to keep a "habit"....and, do day-labor type work....until they get "tired-of", or are ready to "kick" their habit, that should pretty-much be their option. It wouldn't be my choice, but...by-the-same-token....I don't appreciate anyone telling me how to live my Life, either.​

 

[JBeukema]

It seems to me that lots of people want to justify their addiction to marijuana

Repeated clinical studies have shown that THC (the active substance in marijuana) is not physically addictive- but far be it from you to know what you're talking about.


Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits. Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

• United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.

• Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.

• Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.

• Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.

Myths and Facts About Marijuana

I'm sick and tired of my family being impacted by the selfish stupidity of others.

Hello, pot.

You want to affect your brain, body

Ever drink coffee or tea?

and kill yourselves.

I'm sure you only eat vegan foods, you exercise for 40 minutes every day, and you wear a gas mask any time to approach the city for supplies

 

[JBeukema]

There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

• Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse. “Legalization: Panacea or Pandora’s Box.” New York. (1995): 36.

• Turner, Carlton E. The Marijuana Controversy. Rockville: American Council for Drug Education, 1981.

• Nahas, Gabriel G. and Nicholas A. Pace. Letter. “Marijuana as Chemotherapy Aid Poses Hazards.” New York Times 4 December 1993: A20.

• Inaba, Darryl S. and William E. Cohen. Uppers, Downers, All-Arounders: Physical and Mental Effects of Psychoactive Drugs. 2nd ed. Ashland: CNS Productions, 1995. 174.

Myths and Facts About Marijuana

 

[Mr. Shaman]

FWIW:

"Medicinal Marijuana" is on the ballot in my state, and I'll vote for it simply because I see it as a step towards legalization.

However, I have real problems with the concept of medicinal marijuana. The medicinal benefits for MJ are relatively slim. It seems to be a good option for chemo patients and other people with terminal conditions.

However, legalizing medicinal MJ basically is going to create a bunch of patients who are going to come up with bullshit excuses to prompt doctors into making bullshit excuses to get a MJ script. If anyone doubts that, look at what has happened in California. Doctors don't want to be people's "Dr. Feelgood" or write scripts for something whose only real purpose is to get people high, especially when their are other drugs that would work better whose effects have been studied.

Ah, yes, because....after ALL...the pharmaceutical-indu$try should be PRIORITY 1!!!!!

​

No. Medical science should be number one. I think they should just legalize MJ so we can commence with the bullshit about it's medicinal benefits. Especially when those benefits haven't been fully established or have been proven to be more beneficial than other medications. If MJ was being dispensed in California for the few items where it truly has a medicinal benefit, it wouldn't be a problem. That's not the case.

Well....this is what we get, seeing-as-how "the government" (or, at least the DEA's "job-security apparatus" has kept Pot Schedule I...and, avoided any actual-research). There's also the politicians' tendency to be "gun-shy" o' the issue...primarily due to the WWII-Gen "luddites".

BTW...in Colorado, the doctors (who write the "scripts") are on-site. It isn't some big issue with scheduling/appointments/etc.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

....Especially if they're alcoholics, right??

Then, we could keep regressing....and, start burning epileptics, at the stake (again), for being possessed!!!

What a wonderful, little World it'd be, if we could exterm...er, eliminate ALL sick-people!!! (...The-sooner-the-better!!)

​

So you consider allowing those under the influence killing innocent people progress? Further, you don't want to discourage the activity by instituting a large penalty?

You can kill someone and pay less than $4,000.

however the person was killed, the person is dead, and if another person is responsible for said death, then they should be punished....as someone recklessly using a firearm, as someone talking on their cell phone when they hit the person and killed them as someone drunk or drugged out, that killed the person....the person is no more dead....and no less at the hands of another.....is how i see it.....

....And, everyone-else is (obviously) satisfied with the way things work, presently....until it happens to them.​

 

[Luissa]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

First, your statistics on Pot related accidential deaths is beyond disingenious and beyond insulting for us to believe it to be 0! Pot is mind altering and believe it or not it slows your wits, makes your paranoid and well makes you stupid. Even when not smoking pot, it has lasting effect on pot heads, because the THC stores in your brain cells and slows them down.

As a former pothead (meaning I smoked everyday) for many years. I know the effects pot has on your wits, nerves, and brain. I have droven while stoned many times. Not anywhere as dangerous as driving drunk. Not even close, but you are not all there and no amount of justification can say you are.

Nevertheless I agree with your point, pot is a hell of a lot less dangerous and detrimental to society then alcohol is and it kills 10s of thousands less people then Tobacco. Not to mention its beyond a miracle drug to chemo patients. I for one can't think of ANY good reasons why pot is illegal (but then again I'm for overturning the Harrison Act and decriminalizing Cocaine, Herion, Shroms and Pot)!

Marijuana doesn't kill brain cells, and in one study they found marijuana can some cases slow down the progression of plague build up in your brain. (dementia)
It can cause temporary short term memory loss.

Government experts now admit that pot doesn't kill brain cells.(8) This myth came from a handful of animal experiments in which structural changes (not actual cell death, as is often alleged) were observed in brain cells of animals exposed to high doses of pot. Many critics still cite the notorious monkey studies of Dr. Robert G. Heath, which purported to find brain damage in three monkeys that had been heavily dosed with cannabis.(9) This work was never replicated and has since been discredited by a pair of better controlled, much larger monkey studies, one by Dr. William Slikker of the National Center for Toxicological Research(10) and the other by Charles Rebert and Gordon Pryor of SRI International.(11) Neither found any evidence of physical alteration in the brains of monkeys exposed to daily doses of pot for up to a year. Human studies of heavy users in Jamaica and Costa Rica found no evidence of abnormalities in brain physiology.(12) Even though there is no evidence that pot causes permanent brain damage, users should be aware that persistent deficits in short-term memory have been noted in chronic, heavy marijuana smokers after 6 to 12 weeks of abstinence.(13) It is worth noting that other drugs, including alcohol, are known to cause brain damage.Marijuana Health Mythology

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

Pot is mind altering and believe it or not it slows your wits, makes your paranoid and well makes you stupid. Even when not smoking pot, it has lasting effect on pot heads, because the THC stores in your brain cells and slows them down.

Uhhhhhh.....riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....it makes You stupid, alright!

I'd surely like to see your research-paper on your THC-in-brain-cells theory.

​

 

[geauxtohell]

Well....this is what we get, seeing-as-how "the government" (or, at least the DEA's "job-security apparatus" has kept Pot Schedule I...and, avoided any actual-research). There's also the politicians' tendency to be "gun-shy" o' the issue...primarily due to the WWII-Gen "luddites".

BTW...in Colorado, the doctors (who write the "scripts") are on-site. It isn't some big issue with scheduling/appointments/etc.​

I agree it should be further studied before the medical benefits are touted either way.

The schedule two drugs that are cited have legitimate medicinal benefits, though not as recreational drugs (i.e. cocaine is used as a local anesthetic) and amphetamines are used for OCD and opiates are used for pain.

My concern about medicinal marijuana wasn't about patients clogging up doctors offices. It was dealing with the bullshit of regular patients who want an MJ script and are making up bullshit excuses simply because they want to get stoned. You can deny it, but we both know it's a problem.

Their are Drs. who are making a living off of just filling pot scripts. I would argue that they have traded the responsibilities that come with their licenses for the $ of being a drug dealer. This isn't limited to MJ. Doctors get busted for pulling this stuff with narcotics all the time and lose their licenses.

My point is that Drs. should be in the business to prevent, treat, and manage disease. Not to get people stoned for their own recreational needs.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

Pot is mind altering and believe it or not it slows your wits, makes your paranoid and well makes you stupid. Even when not smoking pot, it has lasting effect on pot heads, because the THC stores in your brain cells and slows them down.

Uhhhhhh.....riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....it makes You stupid, alright!

I'd surely like to see your research-paper on your THC-in-brain-cells theory.

​

Considering that the brain stores no fuel products period (which is why losing blood flow to the brain will result in tissue death in a matter of minutes), I'd like to see that too.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So you consider allowing those under the influence killing innocent people progress? Further, you don't want to discourage the activity by instituting a large penalty?

You can kill someone and pay less than $4,000.

however the person was killed, the person is dead, and if another person is responsible for said death, then they should be punished....as someone recklessly using a firearm, as someone talking on their cell phone when they hit the person and killed them as someone drunk or drugged out, that killed the person....the person is no more dead....and no less at the hands of another.....is how i see it....we do not need a gazillion more laws to take care of the problem...we have laws in place already for that kind of stuff....you kill someone, and are at fault, you pay the price...both criminal and civil, with lawsuits.

I do not drink or smoke pot... I have no problems with people that do....I still think it is unconstitutional and an overreach of gvt.

I have a hard time quarreling with this, but I do think we have to have means to protect the innocent before they get hurt too. I'm still struggling with how best that can be done. I do know that consequences for hurting another while under the influence should be swift, severe, and absolute whatever means we use to accomplish that.

So...what do you do with the manic-depressive...who's tryin' to self-medicate (with alcohol). You're gonna throw him into jail/prison for making a "bad-decision" (during one o' his/her episodes)??? You're (actually) gonna punish someone who's ALREADY sick?

How 'bout if it was one o' your kids....or, a parent?​