Beer, Cigarettes & Marijuana -- What's the difference?

[geauxtohell]

So...what do you do with the manic-depressive...who's tryin' to self-medicate (with alcohol). You're gonna throw him into jail/prison for making a "bad-decision" (during one o' his/her episodes)??? You're (actually) gonna punish someone who's ALREADY sick?

How 'bout if it was one o' your kids....or, a parent?​

I actually dealt with a bipolar patient who self medicated with MJ and had tried every psych drug known to man and hated them. He liked being manic, but used MJ to keep him toned down when he was manic (as opposed to lithium) and to keep him elevated when he was depressed.

That seems like a legitimate indication for the drug. That is far from the norm though.

As I said, they should just legalize it period.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

First, your statistics on Pot related accidential deaths is beyond disingenious and beyond insulting for us to believe it to be 0! Pot is mind altering and believe it or not it slows your wits, makes your paranoid and well makes you stupid. Even when not smoking pot, it has lasting effect on pot heads, because the THC stores in your brain cells and slows them down.

As a former pothead (meaning I smoked everyday) for many years. I know the effects pot has on your wits, nerves, and brain. I have droven while stoned many times. Not anywhere as dangerous as driving drunk. Not even close, but you are not all there and no amount of justification can say you are.

Nevertheless I agree with your point, pot is a hell of a lot less dangerous and detrimental to society then alcohol is and it kills 10s of thousands less people then Tobacco. Not to mention its beyond a miracle drug to chemo patients. I for one can't think of ANY good reasons why pot is illegal (but then again I'm for overturning the Harrison Act and decriminalizing Cocaine, Herion, Shroms and Pot)!

Marijuana doesn't kill brain cells, and in one study they found marijuana can some slow down the progression of plague build up in your brain. (dementia)
It can cause temporary short term memory loss.

Yeah....when you're high....when you're tryin' to take a mini-vacation; that day/evening.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Well....this is what we get, seeing-as-how "the government" (or, at least the DEA's "job-security apparatus" has kept Pot Schedule I...and, avoided any actual-research). There's also the politicians' tendency to be "gun-shy" o' the issue...primarily due to the WWII-Gen "luddites".

BTW...in Colorado, the doctors (who write the "scripts") are on-site. It isn't some big issue with scheduling/appointments/etc.​

I agree it should be further studied before the medical benefits are touted either way.

The schedule two drugs that are cited have legitimate medicinal benefits, though not as recreational drugs (i.e. cocaine is used as a local anesthetic) and amphetamines are used for OCD and opiates are used for pain.

My concern about medicinal marijuana wasn't about patients clogging up doctors offices. It was dealing with the bullshit of regular patients who want an MJ script and are making up bullshit excuses simply because they want to get stoned. You can deny it, but we both know it's a problem.

If it isn't a problem, for the doctor, why are you worried-about-it????

What....you'd prefer to see someone take some kind o' over-the-counter garbage, for insomnia......rather than (simply) smoke some Pot??

Where you wanna draw-the-line!​

Their are Drs. who are making a living off of just filling pot scripts. I would argue that they have traded the responsibilities that come with their licenses for the $ of being a drug dealer. This isn't limited to MJ. Doctors get busted for pulling this stuff with narcotics all the time and lose their licenses.

My point is that Drs. should be in the business to prevent, treat, and manage disease. Not to get people stoned for their own recreational needs.

You surely do seem obsessed with how other people relax.

Why's that?​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So...what do you do with the manic-depressive...who's tryin' to self-medicate (with alcohol). You're gonna throw him into jail/prison for making a "bad-decision" (during one o' his/her episodes)??? You're (actually) gonna punish someone who's ALREADY sick?

How 'bout if it was one o' your kids....or, a parent?​

I actually dealt with a bipolar patient who self medicated with MJ and had tried every psych drug known to man and hated them. He liked being manic, but used MJ to keep him toned down when he was manic (as opposed to lithium) and to keep him elevated when he was depressed.

That seems like a legitimate indication for the drug. That is far from the norm though.

As I said, they should just legalize it period.

Agreed!!!!......But, I'm responding to Foxfyre....who wants to exact some swift & severe punishment, for alcohol-abuse.​

 

[Foxfyre]

So...what do you do with the manic-depressive...who's tryin' to self-medicate (with alcohol). You're gonna throw him into jail/prison for making a "bad-decision" (during one o' his/her episodes)??? You're (actually) gonna punish someone who's ALREADY sick?

How 'bout if it was one o' your kids....or, a parent?​

I actually dealt with a bipolar patient who self medicated with MJ and had tried every psych drug known to man and hated them. He liked being manic, but used MJ to keep him toned down when he was manic (as opposed to lithium) and to keep him elevated when he was depressed.

That seems like a legitimate indication for the drug. That is far from the norm though.

As I said, they should just legalize it period.

Agreed!!!!......But, I'm responding to Foxfyre....who wants to exact some swift & severe punishment, for alcohol-abuse.​

If you would go back and report what I said honestly, you would see that I did not in any way suggest swift or severe punishment for alcohol abuse. I suggest swift and CERTAIN punishment for causing injury to others. There is a huge difference between these two things.

 

[geauxtohell]

If it isn't a problem, for the doctor, why are you worried-about-it????​

Because it's bad for the profession. I didn't go to medical school to become someone's pot dealer.

What....you'd prefer to see someone take some kind o' over-the-counter garbage, for insomnia......rather than (simply) smoke some Pot??

Where you wanna dray-the-line!​

I'd rather them take something that actually worked, as opposed to the Polly Anna-esque "Medicinal Marijuana cures everything" mentality some people have.

You surely do seem obsessed with how other people relax.

Why's that?​

Then you haven't been reading my posts. I said they should just legalize it for recreational use. I don't want the medical profession to be co-opted into writing scripts for helping people "relax".

 

[California Girl]

It seems to me that lots of people want to justify their addiction to marijuana

Repeated clinical studies have shown that THC (the active substance in marijuana) is not physically addictive- but far be it from you to know what you're talking about.


Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits. Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

• United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.

• Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.

• Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.

• Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.

Myths and Facts About Marijuana

I'm sick and tired of my family being impacted by the selfish stupidity of others.

Hello, pot.

You want to affect your brain, body

Ever drink coffee or tea?

and kill yourselves.

I'm sure you only eat vegan foods, you exercise for 40 minutes every day, and you wear a gas mask any time to approach the city for supplies

I think that anyone who feels so insecure that they need to dissect a post word for word to respond is a little bit pathetic.

I mind my business. You do likewise. Get as stoned as you like, drink yourself into oblivion - I don't care. Just don't kill someone else when your stoned or drunk. Simple enough. What I dislike about the abuse of drugs or alcohol is the impact on others - I couldn't give a rats ass if someone chooses to subject themselves to the harms of any substance. Just don't expect me to pay for your treatment, fund you because you can't hold down a job or lose a member of my family because of your fucking stupidity.

Do I sympathize with alcoholics? Nope. Junkies? Nope. Fuck off and screw with your own head - just STOP affecting other people.

 

[Foxfyre]

If it isn't a problem, for the doctor, why are you worried-about-it????​

Because it's bad for the profession. I didn't go to medical school to become someone's pot dealer.

What....you'd prefer to see someone take some kind o' over-the-counter garbage, for insomnia......rather than (simply) smoke some Pot??

Where you wanna dray-the-line!​

I'd rather them take something that actually worked, as opposed to the Polly Anna-esque "Medicinal Marijuana cures everything" mentality some people have.

You surely do seem obsessed with how other people relax.

Why's that?​

Then you haven't been reading my posts. I said they should just legalize it for recreational use. I don't want the medical profession to be co-opted into writing scripts for helping people "relax".

I am treading into waters that you know far better than I, but I'm guessing that most doctors will not prescribe pot smoking for any patients in lieu of better and less toxic ways to treat various symptoms.

I don't think anybody should go to jail or have a blight on their record just for smoking a joint any more than they should for having a couple of beers after work. And regulation of potentially harmful substances only makes sense. I do think the government should butt out though when it comes to promoting use of any potentially harmful substance. That is not what it was designed for.

 

[geauxtohell]

I am treading into waters that you know far better than I, but I'm guessing that most doctors will not prescribe pot smoking for any patients in lieu of better and less toxic ways to treat various symptoms.

Not a good doctor. I am still in medical school, but the new trend in medicine is towards "evidence based medicine" which adheres to the principle that prescription practices should be quantifiable which means that , regardless of the drug, there should be some real objective data that it does what it says it does.

The fact that Doctors in California are setting up sole practices to dispense Marijuana for everything from terminal illnesses to PMS really bothers me.

I don't think anybody should go to jail or have a blight on their record just for smoking a joint any more than they should for having a couple of beers after work. And regulation of potentially harmful substances only makes sense. I do think the government should butt out though when it comes to promoting use of any potentially harmful substance. That is not what it was designed for.

I think there are legitimate indications for MJ as a medication. I just don't want the banner of compassionate patient care to be co-opted for people who really want to legalize it.

If that's the case, just legalize it.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Not much. I do find it funny though that the Socialists/Progressives are now pushing to legalize Marijuana when it is they who are always pushing to ban cigarettes. My God,how many tobacco farmers have they put out of business? Remember all their "Evil Tobacco Company" rhetoric. Lots of shady lawyers sure did get rich off those class-action suits huh? Unfortunately they put a whole lot of poor farmers out of business in the process. You can't only support real Freedom & Liberty when it's convenient. What about all those poor farmers they put out of business? This is the main problem i have with the Socialists/Progressives who are now pushing to legalize Marijuana. Can't really trust them.

 

[geauxtohell]

Not much. I do find it funny though that the Socialists/Progressives are now pushing to legalize Marijuana when it is they who are always pushing to ban cigarettes. My God,how many tobacco farmers have they put out of business? Remember all their "Evil Tobacco Company" rhetoric. Lots of shady lawyers sure did get rich off those class-action suits huh? Unfortunately they put a whole lot of poor farmers out of business in the process. You can't only support real Freedom & Liberty sometimes. This is the main problem i have with the Socialists/Progressives who are now pushing to legalize Marijuana. Can't really trust them.

Yeah, unfortunately for you, tobacco is the worst thing habit a person can pick up and the "Evil Tobacco Companies" knew it and purposely hid and crooked the data to try and hide that fact, which is why they were viewed in such a poor light.

 

[Dr Gregg]

It seems to me that lots of people want to justify their addiction to marijuana

Repeated clinical studies have shown that THC (the active substance in marijuana) is not physically addictive- but far be it from you to know what you're talking about.


Myth: Marijuana is Highly Addictive. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits. Fact: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.

• United States. Dept. of Health and Human Services. DASIS Report Series, Differences in Marijuana Admissions Based on Source of Referral. 2002. June 24 2005.

• Johnson, L.D., et al. “National Survey Results on Drug Use from the Monitoring the Future Study, 1975-1994, Volume II: College Students and Young Adults.” Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.

• Kandel, D.B., et al. “Prevalence and demographic correlates of symptoms of dependence on cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in the U.S. population.” Drug and Alcohol Dependence 44 (1997):11-29.

• Stephens, R.S., et al. “Adult marijuana users seeking treatment.” Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology 61 (1993): 1100-1104.

Myths and Facts About Marijuana

Hello, pot.


Ever drink coffee or tea?

and kill yourselves.

I'm sure you only eat vegan foods, you exercise for 40 minutes every day, and you wear a gas mask any time to approach the city for supplies

I think that anyone who feels so insecure that they need to dissect a post word for word to respond is a little bit pathetic.

I mind my business. You do likewise. Get as stoned as you like, drink yourself into oblivion - I don't care. Just don't kill someone else when your stoned or drunk. Simple enough. What I dislike about the abuse of drugs or alcohol is the impact on others - I couldn't give a rats ass if someone chooses to subject themselves to the harms of any substance. Just don't expect me to pay for your treatment, fund you because you can't hold down a job or lose a member of my family because of your fucking stupidity.

Do I sympathize with alcoholics? Nope. Junkies? Nope. Fuck off and screw with your own head - just STOP affecting other people.

So what's your excuse? Play with mercury or too many paint chips as a kid?

 

[JBeukema]

I think that anyone who feels so insecure that they need to dissect a post word for word to respond is a little bit pathetic.

lol


anyone who gets so upset by having their claims refuted that they result to such lame attempts at an attacks shouldn't bother posting in the first place

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Not much. I do find it funny though that the Socialists/Progressives are now pushing to legalize Marijuana when it is they who are always pushing to ban cigarettes. My God,how many tobacco farmers have they put out of business? Remember all their "Evil Tobacco Company" rhetoric. Lots of shady lawyers sure did get rich off those class-action suits huh? Unfortunately they put a whole lot of poor farmers out of business in the process. You can't only support real Freedom & Liberty sometimes. This is the main problem i have with the Socialists/Progressives who are now pushing to legalize Marijuana. Can't really trust them.

Yeah, unfortunately for you, tobacco is the worst thing habit a person can pick up and the "Evil Tobacco Companies" knew it and purposely hid and crooked the data to try and hide that fact, which is why they were viewed in such a poor light.

Lots of sleazy Lawyers got rich while lots of poor tobacco farmers were put out of business. That has been the resulting reality of your Socialist/Progressive crusade against the "Evil Tobacco Companies." Now you guys want to legalize Marijuana? I'm sorry but i just can't trust you guys at this point. You should support real Freedom & Liberty all the time and not just when it's convenient for you. Your motives have to be questioned on this. It is what it is.

 

[JBeukema]

lol


right... it's been the Left, not the 'moral majority' waging the war on drugs this whole time

 

[LibocalypseNow]

It was the Socialist/Progressive Clinton Administration who waged all-out War against cigarettes. Lots of their sleazy lawyer buddies got rich off those class-action lawsuits while poor tobacco farmers were put out of business. That's just fact. Now these same Socialists/Progressives are screeching about legalizing Marijuana? Sorry,i just can't trust your motives. Believing in real Freedom & Liberty is hard. You can't only believe in it when it's convenient for you. What about all those poor tobacco farmers you guys put out of business?

 

[Foxfyre]

lol


right... it's been the Left, not the 'moral majority' waging the war on drugs this whole time

I believe what he is saying is that many on the Left, under the banner of freedom and liberty, want to be able to do what they want to do. They want to smoke as much pot as they want or drink alcohol when and wherever they want without any government restraint. Actually so do many on the right.

However some of those same folks want to prohibit others from engaging in activities deemed inappropriate or harmful or offensive.

So Citizen A wants freedom to do what they want to do, but want the government to prohibit Citizen B from doing stuff that Citizen A doesn't like.

And there is a disconnect in that don't you think?

 

[Tom Clancy]

If there were someone/anyone that the Federal Government and the Pharmacutical industry could get a name on that actually died from long term use of marijuana--they would have a 24/7 advertisement against it. You know it--I know it.

As far as you know someone that got "severely injured"--give me a freaking break. Now go talk to your drunk neighbor that fell off of his porch and broke his leg---

Ignorance at it's best.

Sure, no one has died due to Overdose.. But being under the effect of it? Sure.. I've been there, saw it myself.

So you've decided not to participate.

No prob.

Ya' got any problem with lettin' everyone-else makin' that decision, for themselves?​

Read Shaman..

I'm a Smoker myself.. Smoke about 1-2 a Month.. I do it socially..

The point is, Saying Pot can't harm you or hasn't caused Deaths is Ignorant..

And no, I don't mean Death by Overdose.. That's quite impossible.

I'm all for Legalizing.. I'd prefer my money going to the Government than the Mafias down in Mexico.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

lol


right... it's been the Left, not the 'moral majority' waging the war on drugs this whole time

I believe what he is saying is that many on the Left, under the banner of freedom and liberty, want to be able to do what they want to do. They want to smoke as much pot as they want or drink alcohol when and wherever they want without any government restraint. Actually so do many on the right.

However some of those same folks want to prohibit others from engaging in activities deemed inappropriate or harmful or offensive.

So Citizen A wants freedom to do what they want to do, but want the government to prohibit Citizen B from doing stuff that Citizen A doesn't like.

And there is a disconnect in that don't you think?

Bingo! These same Socialists/Progressives were absolutely gung-ho when the Clinton Administration was putting thousands of poor tobacco farmers out of business. That was all just one big lottery score for trial lawyers who donate heavily to the Democratic Party. Their ridiculous class-action lawsuits destroyed many poor farmers' lives. As usual,that was all "For our own Good." Was it though? Now these same people are screeching about "Freedom" when comes to smoking Marijuana? I actually get a little angry at these frauds. Freedom & Liberty is not about convenience. Now it's too late for those farmers who were shut down. How sad.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not much. I do find it funny though that the Socialists/Progressives are now pushing to legalize Marijuana when it is they who are always pushing to ban cigarettes. My God,how many tobacco farmers have they put out of business? Remember all their "Evil Tobacco Company" rhetoric. Lots of shady lawyers sure did get rich off those class-action suits huh? Unfortunately they put a whole lot of poor farmers out of business in the process. You can't only support real Freedom & Liberty when it's convenient. What about all those poor farmers they put out of business? This is the main problem i have with the Socialists/Progressives who are now pushing to legalize Marijuana. Can't really trust them.

Ever watch how cigarettes are made? There isn't a natural leaf tobacco piece in any of them, except the ones made by Native Americans.

RJR takes the leaf, chops it into a slurry, adds whole bunches of chemicals to it, then dries the slurry out in big sheets and then chops THAT up to put in the cigarettes.

No........there is nothing "natural" or "healthy" about cigarettes. They're toxic.

Cannabis, on the other hand has been proven to help with Alzheimer's, is currently being researched for autism. It's also been proven to be helpful in cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy.

It's also proved pretty effective for PTSD and depression as well.

Now, considering the tax figures recently released to show that California made several MILLION dollars in tax on just medical marijuana dispensaries, they've calculated (based on the figures they had from medical marijuana) that it could be 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS/YEAR for tax if it was legal across the board.

Nobody has ever become addicted to cannabis. Want proof? Check out the Hindu medicine men in India who smoke pot continuously.

Pot was made illegal for racist reasons. If you support the continued criminalization of cannabis, you are a racist as well. Henry P. Anslinger and his propaganda film "Reefer Madness" did nothing but tell lies about the substance to scare people away from it.

Seems back then, the major consumers of pot were brown and black people, and Anslinger wanted a way to legally put them in jail, so he made their recreational substance illegal, knowing they would continue to smoke.

Additionally, the leftover plant material can be used to make oil, fabric, paper, and biofuel.

Why is it not legal already?

And, comparing the 3? Well, the last 8 years of my Navy career, I was a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor (DAPA). Based on what I'd seen, as well as all the materials I'd studied, I could not see anything harmful about it.

6 months after I retired? I researched it on the internet to decide if I wanted to or not. I eventually did try it, and based on all the research that I've done, as well as in talking to many others who smoke as well, combined with all the research that I've read from Harvard Medical and the Royal British Medical Society and the US Government (read the Laguardia Report that was commissioned by Nixon), I can see no reason other than ignorance and racism for keeping it illegal.

Besides, it's easier at work when your co-worker went out and smoked cannabis rather than powering down a 12 pack and a bottle of Jack.

Hungover people are useless in the mornings, smokers aren't.