Bernie Sanders: We Will Raise Taxes On Anyone Making Over $29,000 To Fund Government Health Care

[dblack]

Bernie's got plenty of proposals to reduce corruption.

We need to make a law preventing people from using the law to enrich themselves! (think it through, nutz).

 

[Grumblenuts]

Yes, corporations are thoroughly unaccountable to the people. That's the main purpose of incorporating to begin with. Govt, otoh exists, in theory at least, to serve the people.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Notably missing is any proposal to stem corruption. The rich continue buying the govt they want and y'all appear content with the yellow raindrops.

Notably missing is how you think government will magically have no corruption if UHC happens.
You realize the same corrupt bastards that are there now - are the same people as who would be controlling healthcare?

To a degree? Yes, I do. The question is then which produces less waste, Medicare for All or what we have now? Neither gets to the root, but the former beats the latter. Our costs compared to the rest of the developed world with UHC?

"The former beats the latter.." - on what basis do you think that?
And why our costs are higher than the rest? That is easy.... McDonalds, Soda Pop, Potato Chips... MOST people eating little vegetables... do you realize that 67% of all dollars spent on health care in America is related to diet?
Our diet is what is costing us, not insurance companies.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Notably missing is any proposal to stem corruption. The rich continue buying the govt they want and y'all appear content with the yellow raindrops.

Notably missing is how you think government will magically have no corruption if UHC happens.
You realize the same corrupt bastards that are there now - are the same people as who would be controlling healthcare?

To a degree? Yes, I do. The question is then which produces less waste, Medicare for All or what we have now? Neither gets to the root, but the former beats the latter. Our costs compared to the rest of the developed world with UHC?

A lot of our costs are because of government, not private healthcare insurance. The insurance companies simply pay the charges medical facilities bill out. So what we should be working on is reducing costs, not changing the entire system. Because if we change the entire system, all we do is pass the costs from one entity to another. We solve nothing, and it will continue to get worse.

Don't look to the people that caused the problem to have a solution to it.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Don't look to the people that caused the problem to have a solution to it.

Exactly. Don't look to the giant insurance cabal to solve the problems they never did in the first place and have only made worse.

 

[Grumblenuts]

non-partisan data from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) demonstrate definitively that private insurance is increasingly less efficient than Medicare. The data show that Congress should examine and address the role that private insurance is playing in driving up overall health care costs.

Medicare Has Controlled Costs Better Than Private Insurance

 

[dblack]

Yes, corporations are thoroughly unaccountable to the people. That's the main purpose of incorporating to begin with. Govt, otoh exists, in theory at least, to serve the people.

It's a bad theory, nuts. Replacing consumer freedom with government oversight isn't a good trade. Outside of theft and fraud, businesses are best held accountable by consumers who are free to tell them to fly a kite, not authoritarian regulators telling everyone how to live correctly.

 

[NightFox]

You should be able to buy insurance from ANY insurance company ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.

Just out of curiosity, why limit the supply to "ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY"? why not ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET?

 

[Grumblenuts]

..AND BEYOND!...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Don't look to the people that caused the problem to have a solution to it.

Exactly. Don't look to the giant insurance cabal to solve the problems they never did in the first place and have only made worse.

Insurance companies only pay the bills, just like they do for home and auto insurance. Big bills, big premiums. Small bills, lower premiums. That's the way insurance works.

In our lifetime, we've always had insurance run healthcare, and for many of those years, it worked fine. What changed? Government. The more government got involved, the more expensive it became.

I remember years ago when this problem started to develop. I was working in medical at the time, and we had to have a meeting once a week just to keep up with new government changes. We dealt with all government and private insurances. It was a nightmare, and I'm sure since I left, it only got worse.

Government now demands X form, so we threw away the previous ones, and bought boxes of X forms. Two months later, government doesn't allow us to use X form anymore, so we threw boxes of X forms away, and bought new Y forms. It was non-stop.

Government just doesn't regulate government programs, they regulate the private market as well. Insurance companies take in premium money, invest it to make a profit, and use the profits to offset medical costs. When Commie Care went into effect, the government regulated that all insurance companies must use 80% of their premium collections to pay claims. They had little to invest, so up went healthcare prices again.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

So how do you propose we regulate everybody's diet?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Replacing consumer freedom

Yawn. Wrong..

SEC. 103. FREEDOM OF CHOICE.
Any individual entitled to benefits under this Act may obtain health services from any institution, agency, or individual qualified to participate under this Act.

 

[pknopp]

Yes, corporations are thoroughly unaccountable to the people. That's the main purpose of incorporating to begin with. Govt, otoh exists, in theory at least, to serve the people.

It's a bad theory, nuts. Replacing consumer freedom with government oversight isn't a good trade. Outside of theft and fraud, businesses are best held accountable by consumers who are free to tell them to fly a kite, not authoritarian regulators telling everyone how to live correctly.

Theories are theories for a reason. Trump would still be ripping off his charity if not for oversite. Without oversite how does corruption get exposed?

 

[Grumblenuts]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

So how do you propose we regulate everybody's diet?

Indeed.

 

[dblack]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

Heh... it's way more than poor diet. Health insurance, or rather our abuse of health insurance, is very much at the core of the problem with the health care market. The thing is, group health insurance (whether employer funded or government funded - makes no difference) isn't a viable way to pay for health care. It injects massive moral hazard by inverting consumer incentives. e.g. an insured health care consumer has no incentive to save money on health care costs, they have the opposite incentive. The only reason this kind of insurance exists is because of ill-conceived regulation imposed by government.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

So how do you propose we regulate everybody's diet?

Did I say that?
No
I said the reason American healthcare costs are so much higher than other western nations is due to horrible diets. Not because we don't have UHC

 

[Grumblenuts]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

So how do you propose we regulate everybody's diet?

Did I say that?
No
I said the reason American healthcare costs are so much higher than other western nations is due to horrible diets. Not because we don't have UHC

While stressing how opposed you are to UHC.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So apparently, like all other UHC supporters you are just going to ignore that the reason American costs are so high is due to poor diet and not insurance companies?
typical

So how do you propose we regulate everybody's diet?

Did I say that?
No
I said the reason American healthcare costs are so much higher than other western nations is due to horrible diets. Not because we don't have UHC

Then we can admit that's something that can't be controlled, no more than we can control alcohol consumption, recreational narcotics, risky activities, nothing we can do about it.

So now the problem is finding a way to have lower cost medical care at an affordable price.

 

[dblack]

Yes, corporations are thoroughly unaccountable to the people. That's the main purpose of incorporating to begin with. Govt, otoh exists, in theory at least, to serve the people.

It's a bad theory, nuts. Replacing consumer freedom with government oversight isn't a good trade. Outside of theft and fraud, businesses are best held accountable by consumers who are free to tell them to fly a kite, not authoritarian regulators telling everyone how to live correctly.

Theories are theories for a reason. Trump would still be ripping off his charity if not for oversite. Without oversite how does corruption get exposed?

Crimes are investigated and "exposed" by the police.