Bernie Sanders: We Will Raise Taxes On Anyone Making Over $29,000 To Fund Government Health Care

[flack]

As of 10 minutes ago I am the grandfather of twins!!!

congrats!

 

[Grumblenuts]

As of 10 minutes ago I am the grandfather of twins!!!

Congrats!

 

[Grumblenuts]

Says the guy who didn't read his own link...….

Says the guy who's always slow on the uptake and never admits being wrong..

If you have an example where I was wrong, post it.

I posted some of the content. Misinterpreted a fraction of it. Admitted doing so already. So obviously read the link. You were wrong. Admit it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Says the guy who didn't read his own link...….

Says the guy who's always slow on the uptake and never admits being wrong..

If you have an example where I was wrong, post it.

I posted some of the content. Misinterpreted a fraction of it. Admitted doing so already. So obviously read the link. You were wrong. Admit it.

I was wrong when I pointed out your error? LOL!

 

[Grumblenuts]

Says the guy who didn't read his own link...….

Says the guy who's always slow on the uptake and never admits being wrong..

If you have an example where I was wrong, post it.

I posted some of the content. Misinterpreted a fraction of it. Admitted doing so already. So obviously read the link. You were wrong. Admit it.

I was wrong when I pointed out your error? LOL!

Hmm, clearly getting nowhere fast, let's see..

• Slow on the uptake.. ✔
• Never admits being wrong.. ✔

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Says the guy who didn't read his own link...….

Says the guy who's always slow on the uptake and never admits being wrong..

If you have an example where I was wrong, post it.

I posted some of the content. Misinterpreted a fraction of it. Admitted doing so already. So obviously read the link. You were wrong. Admit it.

I was wrong when I pointed out your error? LOL!

Hmm, clearly getting nowhere fast, let's see..

• Slow on the uptake.. ✔
• Never admits being wrong.. ✔

I assumed you didn't read your link, I didn't realize you were too stupid to understand your link.

Slow on the uptake? LOL!

 

[Grumblenuts]

I didn't realize

OMG, so you were wrong?
Wow, I may need to retract the "Never" part!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I didn't realize

OMG, so you were wrong?
Wow, I may need to retract the "Never" part!

But since as a nation we spent close to 10 trillion on health care in 2015

Over 50% of GDP......honest mistake.....DURR

 

[Grumblenuts]

And still no explicit admission of ever being wrong..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And still no explicit admission of ever being wrong..

I overestimated your intelligence.

 

[Flopper]

What would actually stand a chance at working is allow people with preexisting conditions to go on Medicare. That would remove all the high risk patients from private insurance, and that would cause a price decrease, or at the very least, a price freeze.

Next is Medicare and Medicaid needs to start paying the entire bill instead of only part of it.
In any case, nothing gets done the right way until we work on lowering the cost of medical care first. If we don't do that, we're just passing the buck around.

No, Medicare and Medicaid is paying the only valid portion of the bill.
What we have to do is stop the insurance companies from paying more of the bill than Medicare does.
The current bills are incredibly fake and inflated.
That is the whole problem of 3rd party payer, they LIKE inflated bills because then everyone absolutely needs to have insurance even more.
The whole problem is 3rd party payer, who does not care about quality or cost.
The patient can do nothing because they already prepaid.
It is like prepaid legal service, can not possibly ever work.

It's worked very well for generations. Handing it over to government is the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Government is a huge reason why our healthcare is so expensive to begin with.

For generations the cost to deliver a baby was around $100.

There have also been major enhancements in maternity care, prenatal, and postnatal care. The result has been a decrease in infant mortality of 80% since the mid 20th century. Not sure how you put a price tag on that.

A simple delivery was $100. Now it's $16,000. A woman stayed in the hospital for days before also. Now they are out within two days tops.

Over the last hundred years, maternal mortality/infant mortality is down 90% (80% from the mid-20th century. If childbirth cost went up as much as a cup of coffee in the last 70 years, childbirth cost would be about $40,000 today. There are many reasons other than big bad goverment and greedy businesses responsible for the rise in cost of goods and service.

Probably the most important factor in the increase in childbirth costs comes from the family who want to reduce the chance of something going wrong. Hospitals have responded with more expensive medical equipment, availability of more specialist, and more training for staff. So many things such as fetus and infant surgery, sterilization of air, ultrasounds, MRIs, CT Scans, laser surgery, robot-assisted surgery, preeclampsia screening, noninvasive prenatal testing, etc have been introduced since the $100 childbirths but at a significant cost.

Much of what you pay for in a hospital are things you probably will not need and hope you want.

 

[Flopper]

What would actually stand a chance at working is allow people with preexisting conditions to go on Medicare. That would remove all the high risk patients from private insurance, and that would cause a price decrease, or at the very least, a price freeze.

Next is Medicare and Medicaid needs to start paying the entire bill instead of only part of it.
In any case, nothing gets done the right way until we work on lowering the cost of medical care first. If we don't do that, we're just passing the buck around.

No, Medicare and Medicaid is paying the only valid portion of the bill.
What we have to do is stop the insurance companies from paying more of the bill than Medicare does.
The current bills are incredibly fake and inflated.
That is the whole problem of 3rd party payer, they LIKE inflated bills because then everyone absolutely needs to have insurance even more.
The whole problem is 3rd party payer, who does not care about quality or cost.
The patient can do nothing because they already prepaid.
It is like prepaid legal service, can not possibly ever work.

It's worked very well for generations. Handing it over to government is the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Government is a huge reason why our healthcare is so expensive to begin with.

For generations the cost to deliver a baby was around $100.

{...
The average total price charged for pregnancy and newborn care is about $30,000 for a vaginal delivery and $50,000 for a C-section, with insurers paying out an average of $18,329 and $27,866, according to a recent report by Truven Health Analytics.
...}

That is more than just inflation.

100 years ago the doctor came to the house, there was no nurse, and the woman delivered the baby in her bed. Maybe had a sister or mom or neighbor there to help.

Now you have all kind of machines, a couple of nurses doing various things, and and a whole office full of people to do the paperwork. That is expensive.

That also saves lives. Maternity/infant mortality is down 90% from a 100 years ago. Home birth is an option which is far cheaper than a hospital but increases risks.

 

[Flopper]

Nobody has better healthcare than the US when it comes to quality.

I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. In fact, was just there yesterday to get checked out. When you go to their downtown campus, you are the one who feels like a foreigner.

It's not just patients, it's doctors as well. They either come here from their socialized medical care countries to make some real money, or come here, get educated, and never return home. So because of our system, we draw the best talent from around the world.

My sister works there as well. She can testify to the amount of Canadian patients at the Clinic looking for some relief that they couldn't get in their socialized medical care country. In fact, all our northern hospitals have Canadian patients.

So you can't tell me of another country that's problem-less either. They all have either extremely slow services, low quality equipment, medications we quit using decades ago, or outright refuse to treat some people. Nobody has a perfect medial system, including ours.

Not at all true.
The US is ranked something like 29th in health care.
Medical tourism FROM the US is 100 times higher than people coming to the US for medical care.
The only people coming to the US for medical care are the very wealthy who want elite care.
That is not what most people in the US get.
The US has over 100,000 a year dying from medical malpractice, and is one of the worst in the world for health care quality.
The fact we pay physicians more does not mean we get better quality health care.

But they could not make the new ARM payments that as much as doubled.

If you can only afford the teaser rate.....chances are you got a bad mortgage.

There were no 1% interest mortgages.

There were definitely mortgages with very low teaser rates as well as negative amortization mortgages.

They lowest mortgages during the bubble were around 8%,

If rates were 8% or higher, the bubble wouldn't have happened.

and the bust made them jump to over 15%.

You're lying.

It was their rates being jack up deceptively by ARM loans that forced them to default.

Deceptively? LOL!
When was the last time you took out a mortgage?
The pages and pages of rate disclosure documents are hard to miss.

Do you think they just wanted to throw away their down payment and years of monthly payments?

Many had very low or no down payment at all.

First of all, teaser rates most definitely ARE DECEPTIVE and not the fault of the borrower.
Second is that the loan paper work did NOT disclose that the loan was based on the British LIBOR instead of the US Prime, and that in a recession when the US Prime would go down, the LIBOR would greatly go UP!

The only reason we're ranked 29th is because not everybody has equal coverage.

According to the people who like the current system, less than 10% are without private coverage, and they get free ER care.
I think the reality is that more than 20% actually are without coverage, and the current system has very poor quality care.
I know people who went in for chest pains, were told it was indigestion, and they died a well later from a heart attack.
I know someone else who had a seizure, went in for MRI and xrays, were told nothing found, and a month later other doctors removed a golf ball sized tumor. But too late.
When I don't have insurance, no office will even take me, and I have to use ER or Urgent care.
ER wanted $2500 for a couple of stitches.

I have a lot of family that are healthcare providers and I have not seen or heard of most of the problems you listed.

My guess is that higher deductibles are keeping more people from going to the doctor with relatively minor problems because they are paying 100% of the cost while expanded Medicaid is encouraging people to seek medical help even for minor problems. For people with fairly serious problems such that they exceed their deductible or their yearly maximum, they are able to get the care they need without bankrupting the family, losing their home, etc.

One of the biggest problems is people going to the doctor for things they can treat themselves. Like colds or minor sprained ankles. Mommy running to the doctor because Little Johnny got a sniffle.

That has gone down a lot in recent years do to higher copays and deductibles. However, the other side of the story is that it also discourages people from going to the doctor with relatively minor symptoms of serious diseases which lessens the chances of early detection.

 

[Flopper]

It's worked very well for generations. Handing it over to government is the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Government is a huge reason why our healthcare is so expensive to begin with.

For generations the cost to deliver a baby was around $100.

{...
The average total price charged for pregnancy and newborn care is about $30,000 for a vaginal delivery and $50,000 for a C-section, with insurers paying out an average of $18,329 and $27,866, according to a recent report by Truven Health Analytics.
...}

That is more than just inflation.

100 years ago the doctor came to the house, there was no nurse, and the woman delivered the baby in her bed. Maybe had a sister or mom or neighbor there to help.

Now you have all kind of machines, a couple of nurses doing various things, and and a whole office full of people to do the paperwork. That is expensive.

I was not quoting what happened 100 years ago in the home. I am quoting actual hospital charges.

A lot of doctors got out of the baby business because the malpractice is so high. Women who are addicted to drugs or alcohol try to have a baby, then sue the doctor when it doesn't come out right or still born. We have more professional women every year, and they often put off having a child until their 30's. They go to school, then concentrate on paying off their college loans, and by the time all that is done, they are only then capable of financially having a child. The later you wait, the less your chances of a successful delivery, and again, they sue the doctors and hospitals when that doesn't happen.

Malpractice insurance cost is a factor in the shortages OB-GYN doctors but not the most important. There are a number of other factors that are more important.

• During the Baby Boom, obstetrics was one of the most popular specialties for new doctors with the big increases in the number of newborn, however since then, the birthrate has steadily declined and those Baby Boom obstetricians have been retiring.
• The number of hospital connected birth centers has increased by 78% in the last ten years. At most of these centers midwives handle the entire birth unless there are complications. Birthing centers not connected to a hospital don't usually employ obstetricians but use midwives for delivery but rely on nearby hospitals to provide care when serious problems arise.
• Obstetricians are the lowest paid surgeons due a number of factors. Thus many obstetricians are going into other related specialties such as Maternal Fetal Medicine, Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility, and Urogynecology/Reconstructive Pelvic Surgery.
• The increasing number of home births are lessening the need for obstetricians to delivery babies.

However demand for OB/GYNs is growing do to the many services they provide but not necessarily for deliveries. A large percent of the doctors that delivery babies in hospitals today are employees of the hospital who pay their malpractice insurance. So a woman may plan on her OBGYN delivering her baby, but there is a good chance it will be delivered by a doctor on call or a doctor who is on staff at the hospital.

 

[LaDairis]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

 

[dblack]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....

Sure, but then government would have no control of health care!

 

[flack]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Been saying that for years.

 

[LaDairis]

Sure, but then government would have no control of health care!

And Democrat government "workers" could no longer STEAL from it.....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

 

[basquebromance]

"Until the rich wake up and notice what their cheap labor immigration policies are doing to neighborhoods (not theirs), I'm for a wealth tax too" - Acerbic Ann Coulter