Big Brother is reading USMB

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Sounds like a majority of people are pro-Orwellian. Can't say I'm surprised.

This argument sort of went from rage vs Bush, to Bush isn't doing it anymore, to Obama isn't doing that and your conspiracy theories are nutty, to Obama is actually doing that and I'm all for it.

Solution is for the 4th Amendment to apply to stuff on your phone, computer, credit card receipts and private correspondences.

You people actually want to live on a prison planet ( except for mudwhistle). You prefer to be kept safe in a cage. You promote the construction of the ultimate Panopticon.
You reap what you sow.
Panopticon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The government can get most info from the private companies who sell what you give them so you can shop with convenience and surf the web

people like you just don't get how info is gotten (freely given mostly) collected, and stored and shared and sold

I understand perfectly well how social media users (including myself) are doing most of the legwork of the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Social media is public information.
We can also dispense with blaming either the Dems or Reps. Our narrowing sphere of privacy is a result of a bipartisan power grab. Finally, people who want to use this thread to prove that they're Nick Burns Your Company's Computer Guy should also be ignored.

What is it that's actually at issue? Some of these issues are open to interpretation. In Katz vs the United States, there was a 7-1 ruling that the wiretapping of a public phone booth was an unreasonable violation of the 4th Amendment. All calls travel on private infrastructure. It seems arbitrary for wiretapping without a warrant to be constitutional on some forms of tech and not on others. The answer seems to be twofold; 1. it's easier to indiscriminately collect and store cell data and nobody has offered solutions to prevent it. 2. We're the NSA and we're fighting an endless war on terror and traditional law enforcement standards don't apply to us.

How about the new iPhone feature? " Apple has mentioned more than once in the past few weeks its commitment to offering iOS 8 device users, including iPhone 6 buyers, better security and privacy. In the process, Apple also explained that it doesn’t hold the keys to iOS 8 data encryption — which is protected by the user’s PIN code — and therefore it can’t offer access to that encrypted data to law enforcement agencies." This has law enforcement up in arms, saying that Apple is enabling crime. If the issue were ever to reach a future Supreme Court, it's anybody's guess how they would rule.

Was it inevitable that the NSA would build their Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center in Utah? No. It's being built because you don't care that it's being built, or you're extremely reticent to criticize Obama and Pelosi, or you live in fear and you've allowed the terrorists to achieve their freedom-robbing goal by actually supporting it.

It's not surprising, as I said. The number of stylish TV shows portraying spooks in the highest favor, and the general deployment of the fruits of data mining to market an inevitable future (inevitable only due to a lack of resistance) to the American idiot hardly make your assimilation and acquiescence a shocker.

Katz involved a criminal prosecution based on evidence gathered in violation of the 4th Amendment.

Absent criminal prosecution – which the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security have little or no intent of doing – how exactly is this gathering of information 'un-Constitutional'?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Sounds like a majority of people are pro-Orwellian. Can't say I'm surprised.

This argument sort of went from rage vs Bush, to Bush isn't doing it anymore, to Obama isn't doing that and your conspiracy theories are nutty, to Obama is actually doing that and I'm all for it.

Solution is for the 4th Amendment to apply to stuff on your phone, computer, credit card receipts and private correspondences.

You people actually want to live on a prison planet ( except for mudwhistle). You prefer to be kept safe in a cage. You promote the construction of the ultimate Panopticon.
You reap what you sow.
Panopticon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The government can get most info from the private companies who sell what you give them so you can shop with convenience and surf the web

people like you just don't get how info is gotten (freely given mostly) collected, and stored and shared and sold

I understand perfectly well how social media users (including myself) are doing most of the legwork of the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Social media is public information.
We can also dispense with blaming either the Dems or Reps. Our narrowing sphere of privacy is a result of a bipartisan power grab..

Where technology changes the landscape you see a power grab by unseen and unnamed forces. Merely using the term 'bipartisan' doesn't name anything or anyone. It's used in a conspiratorial way.

Technology is moving very fast. We are all struggling to keep up with it

earth to treepee -- we've lost the connection

The precise mission of the Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center is classified. PRISM was classified until the revelations of Snowden. Before everyone found out about PRISM, allegations that such a program existed garnered earth to treepee responses. Congress funds these types of programs, and nobody in Congress bothers to say boo about any of it unless they get a light shined on them and go into damage-control mode (Feinstein). You want names? Take a census of the nation's capitol and list all of the above.

I am also okay with some security matters being classified. Snowden is a cock sucker and a traitor, not a fucking hero.

OF COURSE Congress funds them. Have you ever read a primer on how the U.S. Government works?

And since it is a national security matter, it is not exactly a surprise that Congressmen don't "bother to say boo about any of it . . . ."

It SHOULD remain classified. It is mind-numbingly stupid to tell one's adversaries HOW you plan to go about uncovering their secrets. And we DO have adversaries. And it is one of the valid purposes of government to try to defeat those adversaries before they can hurt any of us.

 

[mudwhistle]

This is where I was born. And governments can be changed. The problems is the idiots that are allowed to vote them into office. The politicians are partly to blame, but the numb-skulls that keep voting them in deserve an equal share.

That practice that somehow has been allowed is just an excuse for the left to regulate, and regulations means more costs. There has to be a better way.

I agree that a lot of crazy politicians do get elected. The recent little midterm election is a good example of that. I'm not sure what that has to do with preventing internet providers from slowing down access. Sounds to me like you're just another pouting right winger who doesn't care what happens as long as you can oppose the president. Is there anything he has done that you agree with?

I don't think Obama has as good of intentions as you think. Experience has told me this.

I don't oppose every Democrat in Washington, just the ones that keep screwing us over. I actually voted for a Democrat here in TN a few years back. Mainly because I didn't know a thing about the stiff the GOP put up against him.

Experience, or fox? I ask again, Is there anything he has done that you agree with?

Allowing the military to kill Bin Laden.

Nothing else comes to mind right now.

I'm sure there's something else he's done that I agree with. Too many things I don't agree with clouds my memory unfortunately.

Mostly, it's difficult to respect him because I know he's a fake. I prefer someone who says what he means and does what he says.

No. You're just another teabagger who choses to oppose everything that fox tells you to oppose. Admit it. It's obvious to everyone else.

Nope. Some of the stuff Rush and Hannity say I don't agree with. I feel that cooperation in government is the only way to get things done.

But unfortunately, we're dealing with people who have decided that division and destruction of the opposition is better than working together. These same people decided that they would cause as much trouble as possible. They decided that working together with those they hate is impossible.

So, I figure if you're dealing with brother that will stab you in the back, then I don't see the point of turning my back on him. Mixing with him will only cause you to relax your guard and maybe even sell out your core values.

The difference between Democrat supporters and Republican supporters is Democrats tend to settle for an ass-reaming instead of what is good for them. Democrats have conditioned their base to accept the irrational and the ridiculous. Republicans can't get away with the type of shit that your leaders constantly pull on you. Mainly because people that vote for them are less understanding when they're lied to.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I am also okay with some security matters being classified. Snowden is a cock sucker and a traitor, not a fucking hero.

why would you insult cocksuckers in this way?

 

[Treeshepherd]

Sounds like a majority of people are pro-Orwellian. Can't say I'm surprised.

This argument sort of went from rage vs Bush, to Bush isn't doing it anymore, to Obama isn't doing that and your conspiracy theories are nutty, to Obama is actually doing that and I'm all for it.

Solution is for the 4th Amendment to apply to stuff on your phone, computer, credit card receipts and private correspondences.

You people actually want to live on a prison planet ( except for mudwhistle). You prefer to be kept safe in a cage. You promote the construction of the ultimate Panopticon.
You reap what you sow.
Panopticon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The government can get most info from the private companies who sell what you give them so you can shop with convenience and surf the web

people like you just don't get how info is gotten (freely given mostly) collected, and stored and shared and sold

I understand perfectly well how social media users (including myself) are doing most of the legwork of the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Social media is public information.
We can also dispense with blaming either the Dems or Reps. Our narrowing sphere of privacy is a result of a bipartisan power grab. Finally, people who want to use this thread to prove that they're Nick Burns Your Company's Computer Guy should also be ignored.

What is it that's actually at issue? Some of these issues are open to interpretation. In Katz vs the United States, there was a 7-1 ruling that the wiretapping of a public phone booth was an unreasonable violation of the 4th Amendment. All calls travel on private infrastructure. It seems arbitrary for wiretapping without a warrant to be constitutional on some forms of tech and not on others. The answer seems to be twofold; 1. it's easier to indiscriminately collect and store cell data and nobody has offered solutions to prevent it. 2. We're the NSA and we're fighting an endless war on terror and traditional law enforcement standards don't apply to us.

How about the new iPhone feature? " Apple has mentioned more than once in the past few weeks its commitment to offering iOS 8 device users, including iPhone 6 buyers, better security and privacy. In the process, Apple also explained that it doesn’t hold the keys to iOS 8 data encryption — which is protected by the user’s PIN code — and therefore it can’t offer access to that encrypted data to law enforcement agencies." This has law enforcement up in arms, saying that Apple is enabling crime. If the issue were ever to reach a future Supreme Court, it's anybody's guess how they would rule.

Was it inevitable that the NSA would build their Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center in Utah? No. It's being built because you don't care that it's being built, or you're extremely reticent to criticize Obama and Pelosi, or you live in fear and you've allowed the terrorists to achieve their freedom-robbing goal by actually supporting it.

It's not surprising, as I said. The number of stylish TV shows portraying spooks in the highest favor, and the general deployment of the fruits of data mining to market an inevitable future (inevitable only due to a lack of resistance) to the American idiot hardly make your assimilation and acquiescence a shocker.

Katz involved a criminal prosecution based on evidence gathered in violation of the 4th Amendment.

Absent criminal prosecution – which the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security have little or no intent of doing – how exactly is this gathering of information 'un-Constitutional'?

Clearly, domestic espionage has not been deemed un-Constitutional. The Constitution is open to interpretation. At one time, a black person was deemed to be 60% of a man. Times changed.

Times have changed. At one point, Richard Nixon was shamed out of office for using his power to intimidate and spy on his political enemies. In these times, a government may spy on journalists to uncover sources, and collect every scrap of digital litter created by unsuspected citizens, and it may do that without censure.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Sounds like a majority of people are pro-Orwellian. Can't say I'm surprised.

This argument sort of went from rage vs Bush, to Bush isn't doing it anymore, to Obama isn't doing that and your conspiracy theories are nutty, to Obama is actually doing that and I'm all for it.

Solution is for the 4th Amendment to apply to stuff on your phone, computer, credit card receipts and private correspondences.

You people actually want to live on a prison planet ( except for mudwhistle). You prefer to be kept safe in a cage. You promote the construction of the ultimate Panopticon.
You reap what you sow.
Panopticon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The government can get most info from the private companies who sell what you give them so you can shop with convenience and surf the web

people like you just don't get how info is gotten (freely given mostly) collected, and stored and shared and sold

I understand perfectly well how social media users (including myself) are doing most of the legwork of the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Social media is public information.
We can also dispense with blaming either the Dems or Reps. Our narrowing sphere of privacy is a result of a bipartisan power grab. Finally, people who want to use this thread to prove that they're Nick Burns Your Company's Computer Guy should also be ignored.

What is it that's actually at issue? Some of these issues are open to interpretation. In Katz vs the United States, there was a 7-1 ruling that the wiretapping of a public phone booth was an unreasonable violation of the 4th Amendment. All calls travel on private infrastructure. It seems arbitrary for wiretapping without a warrant to be constitutional on some forms of tech and not on others. The answer seems to be twofold; 1. it's easier to indiscriminately collect and store cell data and nobody has offered solutions to prevent it. 2. We're the NSA and we're fighting an endless war on terror and traditional law enforcement standards don't apply to us.

How about the new iPhone feature? " Apple has mentioned more than once in the past few weeks its commitment to offering iOS 8 device users, including iPhone 6 buyers, better security and privacy. In the process, Apple also explained that it doesn’t hold the keys to iOS 8 data encryption — which is protected by the user’s PIN code — and therefore it can’t offer access to that encrypted data to law enforcement agencies." This has law enforcement up in arms, saying that Apple is enabling crime. If the issue were ever to reach a future Supreme Court, it's anybody's guess how they would rule.

Was it inevitable that the NSA would build their Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center in Utah? No. It's being built because you don't care that it's being built, or you're extremely reticent to criticize Obama and Pelosi, or you live in fear and you've allowed the terrorists to achieve their freedom-robbing goal by actually supporting it.

It's not surprising, as I said. The number of stylish TV shows portraying spooks in the highest favor, and the general deployment of the fruits of data mining to market an inevitable future (inevitable only due to a lack of resistance) to the American idiot hardly make your assimilation and acquiescence a shocker.

Katz involved a criminal prosecution based on evidence gathered in violation of the 4th Amendment.

Absent criminal prosecution – which the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security have little or no intent of doing – how exactly is this gathering of information 'un-Constitutional'?

Clearly, domestic espionage has not been deemed un-Constitutional. The Constitution is open to interpretation. At one time, a black person was deemed to be 60% of a man. Times changed.

Times have changed. At one point, Richard Nixon was shamed out of office for using his power to intimidate and spy on his political enemies. In these times, a government may spy on journalists to uncover sources, and collect every scrap of digital litter created by unsuspected citizens, and it may do that without censure.

not much has changed, not even the fact that alarmists like you have always been among us

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Sounds like a majority of people are pro-Orwellian. Can't say I'm surprised.

This argument sort of went from rage vs Bush, to Bush isn't doing it anymore, to Obama isn't doing that and your conspiracy theories are nutty, to Obama is actually doing that and I'm all for it.

Solution is for the 4th Amendment to apply to stuff on your phone, computer, credit card receipts and private correspondences.

You people actually want to live on a prison planet ( except for mudwhistle). You prefer to be kept safe in a cage. You promote the construction of the ultimate Panopticon.
You reap what you sow.
Panopticon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The government can get most info from the private companies who sell what you give them so you can shop with convenience and surf the web

people like you just don't get how info is gotten (freely given mostly) collected, and stored and shared and sold

I understand perfectly well how social media users (including myself) are doing most of the legwork of the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Social media is public information.
We can also dispense with blaming either the Dems or Reps. Our narrowing sphere of privacy is a result of a bipartisan power grab. Finally, people who want to use this thread to prove that they're Nick Burns Your Company's Computer Guy should also be ignored.

What is it that's actually at issue? Some of these issues are open to interpretation. In Katz vs the United States, there was a 7-1 ruling that the wiretapping of a public phone booth was an unreasonable violation of the 4th Amendment. All calls travel on private infrastructure. It seems arbitrary for wiretapping without a warrant to be constitutional on some forms of tech and not on others. The answer seems to be twofold; 1. it's easier to indiscriminately collect and store cell data and nobody has offered solutions to prevent it. 2. We're the NSA and we're fighting an endless war on terror and traditional law enforcement standards don't apply to us.

How about the new iPhone feature? " Apple has mentioned more than once in the past few weeks its commitment to offering iOS 8 device users, including iPhone 6 buyers, better security and privacy. In the process, Apple also explained that it doesn’t hold the keys to iOS 8 data encryption — which is protected by the user’s PIN code — and therefore it can’t offer access to that encrypted data to law enforcement agencies." This has law enforcement up in arms, saying that Apple is enabling crime. If the issue were ever to reach a future Supreme Court, it's anybody's guess how they would rule.

Was it inevitable that the NSA would build their Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center in Utah? No. It's being built because you don't care that it's being built, or you're extremely reticent to criticize Obama and Pelosi, or you live in fear and you've allowed the terrorists to achieve their freedom-robbing goal by actually supporting it.

It's not surprising, as I said. The number of stylish TV shows portraying spooks in the highest favor, and the general deployment of the fruits of data mining to market an inevitable future (inevitable only due to a lack of resistance) to the American idiot hardly make your assimilation and acquiescence a shocker.

Katz involved a criminal prosecution based on evidence gathered in violation of the 4th Amendment.

Absent criminal prosecution – which the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security have little or no intent of doing – how exactly is this gathering of information 'un-Constitutional'?

Clearly, domestic espionage has not been deemed un-Constitutional. The Constitution is open to interpretation. At one time, a black person was deemed to be 60% of a man. Times changed.

Times have changed. At one point, Richard Nixon was shamed out of office for using his power to intimidate and spy on his political enemies. In these times, a government may spy on journalists to uncover sources, and collect every scrap of digital litter created by unsuspected citizens, and it may do that without censure.

^ So MUCH total bullshit in such a brief post. It would almost be impressive if it wasn't so sick.

Domestic spying IS a violation of the Constitution which is why, absent an eavesdropping warrant authorized by a magistrate or judge, it is illegal to "spy" on Americans here at home. The Constitution is often open to interpretation, but not to the extent Treeps pretends.

Nixon wasn't shamed out of office for the amateur hour burglary. What got him in trouble was his after the fact effort to COVER IT UP.

The government could ALWAYS (and legitimately) seek to uncover from journalists the "sources" of leaked but classified information. If the effort is undertaken without a warrant or an appropriate (and lawful) FISA letter -- there damn well could be some censure.

And the government STILL has no legal ability or authority to get every scrap of our digital litter. Obtaining METADATA is simply NOT the same thing, no matter how often alarmist lolberals make the claim. Once again, however, there remains a need for vigilance, oversight and for checks and balances.

In short, your post is flatly misinformed and full of errors. That is not a hallmark of valid persuasion.

 

[mudwhistle]

Not that long. He's been trying to regulate the internet. Democrats are trying to institute laws that control what is said here. If they could get away with it, they would have put a stop to it years ago. There's still people out there fighting them believe it or not.

Obviously you have no idea what net neutrality is all about. Completely expected from a fox drone.

I know what it is. I just don't trust the SOB that will be regulating it. Once the government gets into heavy regulation of the internet the sky's the limit on further regulations in the future. Right now it's all about being fair, but then all of the sudden it's about clamping down on our access.

At least you will admit it is about fairness for now. Are you willing to let the totally unfair practice of slowing down and limiting internet access for some now, which will completely change the nature of the internet and how it is used, because you think it might be unfairly changed in some unknown but different way at some unknown point in the future? If you mistrust the government so much, why do you even stay here?

This is where I was born. And governments can be changed. The problems is the idiots that are allowed to vote them into office. The politicians are partly to blame, but the numb-skulls that keep voting them in deserve an equal share.

That practice that somehow has been allowed is just an excuse for the left to regulate, and regulations means more costs. There has to be a better way.

Eliminating the regulations is the wrong way to go.

Nobody other than you guys believe in that false argument.

I remember the arguments that have been thrown out there.

1. Republicans want to end background checks - Who cares that Obama changed regulations at the same time he was proposing changes.
   
2. Bush lowered taxes on everyone, but it only helped the rich - Well the tax-cuts keep being extended for some reason regardless that the Democrats lied for years that they were only tax-cuts for the rich.
   
3. The Tea Party is full of racists - Never mind that the Tea Party was created from a grassroots movement by people that were tired of ever increasing spending in Washington. Now they're all racists and terrorists. Total hogwash.
4. Islam is a religion of peace - Yet they are murdering people every day by the hundred or thousands. At the same time you folks are accusing Christians of the same. Because the media refuses to tell the real story you are unaware of the chaos that is going on overseas.

You guys are being lied to and you keep repeating their lies like you're unable to figure this stuff out for yourselves. The excuse that has been supplied to you is always "Everybody does it!", like that is an acceptable excuse.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Obviously you have no idea what net neutrality is all about. Completely expected from a fox drone.

I know what it is. I just don't trust the SOB that will be regulating it. Once the government gets into heavy regulation of the internet the sky's the limit on further regulations in the future. Right now it's all about being fair, but then all of the sudden it's about clamping down on our access.

At least you will admit it is about fairness for now. Are you willing to let the totally unfair practice of slowing down and limiting internet access for some now, which will completely change the nature of the internet and how it is used, because you think it might be unfairly changed in some unknown but different way at some unknown point in the future? If you mistrust the government so much, why do you even stay here?

This is where I was born. And governments can be changed. The problems is the idiots that are allowed to vote them into office. The politicians are partly to blame, but the numb-skulls that keep voting them in deserve an equal share.

That practice that somehow has been allowed is just an excuse for the left to regulate, and regulations means more costs. There has to be a better way.

Eliminating the regulations is the wrong way to go.

Nobody other than you guys believe in that false argument.

I remember the arguments that have been thrown out there.

1. Republicans want to end background checks - Who cares that Obama changed regulations at the same time he was proposing changes.
   
2. Bush lowered taxes on everyone, but it only helped the rich - Well the tax-cuts keep being extended for some reason regardless that the Democrats lied for years that they were only tax-cuts for the rich.
   
3. The Tea Party is racists - Never mind that the Tea Party was created from a grassroots movement by people that were tired of ever increasing spending in Washington. Now they're all racists and terrorists. Total hogwash.
4. Islam is a religion of peace - Yet they are murdering people every day by the hundred or thousands. At the same time you folks are accusing Christians of the same. Because the media refuses to tell the real story you are unaware of the chaos that is going on overseas.

You guys are being lied to and you keep repeating their lies like you're unable to figure this stuff out for yourselves. The excuse that has been supplied to you is always "Everybody does it!", like that is an acceptable excuse.

Your Libertarian Uptopian agenda of deregulation has been a complete and utter disaster for this nation. You have managed to financially gut the middle class and damage the economies of nations around the world.

You are utterly clueless as to the purpose and requirements for regulations and how they actually uphold your "freedoms" and prevent you from being ruthlessly exploited in every facet of your life.

Instead you are gullible enough to swallow the disinformation spewed by Faux Noise without a single question.

Yes, it is a complete and utter waste of my time trying to educate the close minded who vote against their own self interests because they too ignorant to know any better and too stupid to learn from their mistakes.

 

[Steinlight]

Considering that we have many posters campaigning for treason, insurrection and a lot worse, they might want to be aware of the key words that get the attention of the feds.

Glad to see faggots like you campaigning for the government clamping down on free speech by monitoring "radical right wingers" like it is East Germany.

I would really like to see you pussies try to "bring down the hammer" on the right wing. It will just be a repeat of the Bundy Ranch where you guys lose and retreat.

This is unsurprisingly ignorant.

The issue concerns the 4th Amendment, not the First; there is no 'clamping down on' free speech.

Its both you snarky faggot.

 

[mudwhistle]

I agree that a lot of crazy politicians do get elected. The recent little midterm election is a good example of that. I'm not sure what that has to do with preventing internet providers from slowing down access. Sounds to me like you're just another pouting right winger who doesn't care what happens as long as you can oppose the president. Is there anything he has done that you agree with?

I don't think Obama has as good of intentions as you think. Experience has told me this.

I don't oppose every Democrat in Washington, just the ones that keep screwing us over. I actually voted for a Democrat here in TN a few years back. Mainly because I didn't know a thing about the stiff the GOP put up against him.

Experience, or fox? I ask again, Is there anything he has done that you agree with?

Allowing the military to kill Bin Laden.

Nothing else comes to mind right now.

I'm sure there's something else he's done that I agree with. Too many things I don't agree with clouds my memory unfortunately.

Mostly, it's difficult to respect him because I know he's a fake. I prefer someone who says what he means and does what he says.

He FAILED to immediately close GITMO (despite his assurance that he would promptly close GITMO).

He has actually done a couple of good things. Allowing the incursion into Pakistan to permit the SEALS to get bin Laden was absolutely one of those things.

What else? I recall saying it at USMB on two or three other occasions when he acted along such lines. But they are rare.

As a general rule, he is a massive fail. And a menace to the Republic. I can't wait for his term to finally end. I just hope we aren't saddled, in January of 2017 with some other drone lolberal.

He was blocked from closing Gitmo by republicans, and the only reason you agreed with the BinLaden thing is because fox told you to. Go away teabagger. Come back if you ever try to think for yourself.

Obama is emptying GITMO, so closing it won't be much of an issue for long.

He'd rather turn these terrorists loose than have to deal with them anymore.

 

[mudwhistle]

I know what it is. I just don't trust the SOB that will be regulating it. Once the government gets into heavy regulation of the internet the sky's the limit on further regulations in the future. Right now it's all about being fair, but then all of the sudden it's about clamping down on our access.

At least you will admit it is about fairness for now. Are you willing to let the totally unfair practice of slowing down and limiting internet access for some now, which will completely change the nature of the internet and how it is used, because you think it might be unfairly changed in some unknown but different way at some unknown point in the future? If you mistrust the government so much, why do you even stay here?

This is where I was born. And governments can be changed. The problems is the idiots that are allowed to vote them into office. The politicians are partly to blame, but the numb-skulls that keep voting them in deserve an equal share.

That practice that somehow has been allowed is just an excuse for the left to regulate, and regulations means more costs. There has to be a better way.

Eliminating the regulations is the wrong way to go.

Nobody other than you guys believe in that false argument.

I remember the arguments that have been thrown out there.

1. Republicans want to end background checks - Who cares that Obama changed regulations at the same time he was proposing changes.
   
2. Bush lowered taxes on everyone, but it only helped the rich - Well the tax-cuts keep being extended for some reason regardless that the Democrats lied for years that they were only tax-cuts for the rich.
   
3. The Tea Party is racists - Never mind that the Tea Party was created from a grassroots movement by people that were tired of ever increasing spending in Washington. Now they're all racists and terrorists. Total hogwash.
4. Islam is a religion of peace - Yet they are murdering people every day by the hundred or thousands. At the same time you folks are accusing Christians of the same. Because the media refuses to tell the real story you are unaware of the chaos that is going on overseas.

You guys are being lied to and you keep repeating their lies like you're unable to figure this stuff out for yourselves. The excuse that has been supplied to you is always "Everybody does it!", like that is an acceptable excuse.

Your Libertarian Uptopian agenda of deregulation has been a complete and utter disaster for this nation. You have managed to financially gut the middle class and damage the economies of nations around the world.

You are utterly clueless as to the purpose and requirements for regulations and how they actually uphold your "freedoms" and prevent you from being ruthlessly exploited in every facet of your life.

Instead you are gullible enough to swallow the disinformation spewed by Faux Noise without a single question.

Yes, it is a complete and utter waste of my time trying to educate the close minded who vote against their own self interests because they too ignorant to know any better and too stupid to learn from their mistakes.

One cliche' after another. blah blah blah blah blah......

 

[Treeshepherd]

Sounds like a majority of people are pro-Orwellian. Can't say I'm surprised.

This argument sort of went from rage vs Bush, to Bush isn't doing it anymore, to Obama isn't doing that and your conspiracy theories are nutty, to Obama is actually doing that and I'm all for it.

Solution is for the 4th Amendment to apply to stuff on your phone, computer, credit card receipts and private correspondences.

You people actually want to live on a prison planet ( except for mudwhistle). You prefer to be kept safe in a cage. You promote the construction of the ultimate Panopticon.
You reap what you sow.
Panopticon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The government can get most info from the private companies who sell what you give them so you can shop with convenience and surf the web

people like you just don't get how info is gotten (freely given mostly) collected, and stored and shared and sold

I understand perfectly well how social media users (including myself) are doing most of the legwork of the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Social media is public information.
We can also dispense with blaming either the Dems or Reps. Our narrowing sphere of privacy is a result of a bipartisan power grab. Finally, people who want to use this thread to prove that they're Nick Burns Your Company's Computer Guy should also be ignored.

What is it that's actually at issue? Some of these issues are open to interpretation. In Katz vs the United States, there was a 7-1 ruling that the wiretapping of a public phone booth was an unreasonable violation of the 4th Amendment. All calls travel on private infrastructure. It seems arbitrary for wiretapping without a warrant to be constitutional on some forms of tech and not on others. The answer seems to be twofold; 1. it's easier to indiscriminately collect and store cell data and nobody has offered solutions to prevent it. 2. We're the NSA and we're fighting an endless war on terror and traditional law enforcement standards don't apply to us.

How about the new iPhone feature? " Apple has mentioned more than once in the past few weeks its commitment to offering iOS 8 device users, including iPhone 6 buyers, better security and privacy. In the process, Apple also explained that it doesn’t hold the keys to iOS 8 data encryption — which is protected by the user’s PIN code — and therefore it can’t offer access to that encrypted data to law enforcement agencies." This has law enforcement up in arms, saying that Apple is enabling crime. If the issue were ever to reach a future Supreme Court, it's anybody's guess how they would rule.

Was it inevitable that the NSA would build their Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center in Utah? No. It's being built because you don't care that it's being built, or you're extremely reticent to criticize Obama and Pelosi, or you live in fear and you've allowed the terrorists to achieve their freedom-robbing goal by actually supporting it.

It's not surprising, as I said. The number of stylish TV shows portraying spooks in the highest favor, and the general deployment of the fruits of data mining to market an inevitable future (inevitable only due to a lack of resistance) to the American idiot hardly make your assimilation and acquiescence a shocker.

Katz involved a criminal prosecution based on evidence gathered in violation of the 4th Amendment.

Absent criminal prosecution – which the NSA, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security have little or no intent of doing – how exactly is this gathering of information 'un-Constitutional'?

Clearly, domestic espionage has not been deemed un-Constitutional. The Constitution is open to interpretation. At one time, a black person was deemed to be 60% of a man. Times changed.

Times have changed. At one point, Richard Nixon was shamed out of office for using his power to intimidate and spy on his political enemies. In these times, a government may spy on journalists to uncover sources, and collect every scrap of digital litter created by unsuspected citizens, and it may do that without censure.

not much has changed, not even the fact that alarmists like you have always been among us

Not much has changed?

Jeremy Bentham described the Panopticon as "a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example."

I think it's safe to say that everything has changed with the digital revolution.

We’re headed toward a world where there are no secrets... Nothing escapes the Eye of Sauron. In such a world, the existence of a conscience is irrelevant. Morality can only exist where there is a moral choice to be made. Humanity can only be cultivated when it is challenged. A thrall can neither be moral, nor an embodiment of humanity.

“Why should I care? I’m doing nothing wrong.”

That’s the slogan of the day. You should care because domestic surveillance isn’t about catching the bad guy. It’s about “obtaining power of mind over mind”. Marketing is highly effective. If it were not, companies would not waste money on ads. If marketing were not effective, Coca Cola would never have been able to build an empire on caramel flavored sugar water. What the government is building, from a meta perspective, is a modern oracle that scientifically predicts how individuals and communities will respond to propaganda engineered to sell you the next justification for its bullshit.

And at the same time, the ruling party has ever-increasing tools at its disposal to chill journalists, whistleblowers and any voice of criticism that would ordinarily be the hallmark of democracy.

People quote the phrase, “adapt, migrate or die”. We aren’t adapting. We’re being conditioned according to the whims of utility and power. If we continue on this course, we’ll become more wretched than any slave of the ancient world. At least he had a human master. We’ll pre-order and line up around the block at the chance to be micro-chipped, when that day comes. We gleefully cheer on our increasing subservience to that most monstrous of tyrants, the relentless machine.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

I second that observation. Idiot hack, low info, nasty...not a man at all. I giant pussy who has lost all concept of reality because the President is of a darker hue.

Solely because the president belongs to the 'wrong' political party, that's what's truly ridiculous.

Yep, I married somebody of a darker hue, so that means I hate all people of that skin color.
My wife is half African-American and half Seminole. I didn't marry her because I hate blacks. We've been married so long that I forget a time when I wasn't with her. If anything, I have a very unique perspective of blacks, living from the inside.

So you posers can just suck my hairy teabag.

So you are a race traitor...doesn't take away your idiocy and hate. Let me guess, you are an over bearing control freak. Eber been arrested for domestic violence???

No, have you???
Never laid a hand on her. She's told me that was one of the reasons she married me.

I know brothers figger that they have to beat their wives to keep em in line. At least that seems to be the popular belief. You're not a man unless you beat your wife and screw every ho that bats her eyes at you. Not much of a surprise when you consider that most of the poverty among blacks is because of either broken marriages, single-parent families, or the husband is in prison. Once you live among them long enough you take off the rose-colored glasses and see things the way they really are, not like liberals tend to do. Even Obama isn't an exception. Imagine if his father had been around to raise him. What kind of a man could he have been? Boys need a father around regardless of their race. They need someone to emulate or at least teach them how to act.

Just because you married a half black...it doesn't mean you live among blacks. Obviously, you know nothing of black culture...you simply found a like minded person and nothing more. You know nothing of the black community.

Nutz, please knock it off, you are way out of line.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I don't think Obama has as good of intentions as you think. Experience has told me this.

I don't oppose every Democrat in Washington, just the ones that keep screwing us over. I actually voted for a Democrat here in TN a few years back. Mainly because I didn't know a thing about the stiff the GOP put up against him.

Experience, or fox? I ask again, Is there anything he has done that you agree with?

Allowing the military to kill Bin Laden.

Nothing else comes to mind right now.

I'm sure there's something else he's done that I agree with. Too many things I don't agree with clouds my memory unfortunately.

Mostly, it's difficult to respect him because I know he's a fake. I prefer someone who says what he means and does what he says.

He FAILED to immediately close GITMO (despite his assurance that he would promptly close GITMO).

He has actually done a couple of good things. Allowing the incursion into Pakistan to permit the SEALS to get bin Laden was absolutely one of those things.

What else? I recall saying it at USMB on two or three other occasions when he acted along such lines. But they are rare.

As a general rule, he is a massive fail. And a menace to the Republic. I can't wait for his term to finally end. I just hope we aren't saddled, in January of 2017 with some other drone lolberal.

He was blocked from closing Gitmo by republicans, and the only reason you agreed with the BinLaden thing is because fox told you to. Go away teabagger. Come back if you ever try to think for yourself.

Obama is emptying GITMO, so closing it won't be much of an issue for long.

He'd rather turn these terrorists loose than have to deal with them anymore.

Oh, I know. I wonder if he sought to normalize relations with Communist Cuba because he thought it was the proper time to end the old policy OR if he just thought of it as a practical way of compelling the closure of the GITMO detention facility.

 

[Derideo_Te]

At least you will admit it is about fairness for now. Are you willing to let the totally unfair practice of slowing down and limiting internet access for some now, which will completely change the nature of the internet and how it is used, because you think it might be unfairly changed in some unknown but different way at some unknown point in the future? If you mistrust the government so much, why do you even stay here?

This is where I was born. And governments can be changed. The problems is the idiots that are allowed to vote them into office. The politicians are partly to blame, but the numb-skulls that keep voting them in deserve an equal share.

That practice that somehow has been allowed is just an excuse for the left to regulate, and regulations means more costs. There has to be a better way.

Eliminating the regulations is the wrong way to go.

Nobody other than you guys believe in that false argument.

I remember the arguments that have been thrown out there.

1. Republicans want to end background checks - Who cares that Obama changed regulations at the same time he was proposing changes.
   
2. Bush lowered taxes on everyone, but it only helped the rich - Well the tax-cuts keep being extended for some reason regardless that the Democrats lied for years that they were only tax-cuts for the rich.
   
3. The Tea Party is racists - Never mind that the Tea Party was created from a grassroots movement by people that were tired of ever increasing spending in Washington. Now they're all racists and terrorists. Total hogwash.
4. Islam is a religion of peace - Yet they are murdering people every day by the hundred or thousands. At the same time you folks are accusing Christians of the same. Because the media refuses to tell the real story you are unaware of the chaos that is going on overseas.

You guys are being lied to and you keep repeating their lies like you're unable to figure this stuff out for yourselves. The excuse that has been supplied to you is always "Everybody does it!", like that is an acceptable excuse.

Your Libertarian Uptopian agenda of deregulation has been a complete and utter disaster for this nation. You have managed to financially gut the middle class and damage the economies of nations around the world.

You are utterly clueless as to the purpose and requirements for regulations and how they actually uphold your "freedoms" and prevent you from being ruthlessly exploited in every facet of your life.

Instead you are gullible enough to swallow the disinformation spewed by Faux Noise without a single question.

Yes, it is a complete and utter waste of my time trying to educate the close minded who vote against their own self interests because they too ignorant to know any better and too stupid to learn from their mistakes.

One cliche' after another. blah blah blah blah blah......

Ironic given that all you ever do is regurgitate Faux Noise propaganda.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Experience, or fox? I ask again, Is there anything he has done that you agree with?

Allowing the military to kill Bin Laden.

Nothing else comes to mind right now.

I'm sure there's something else he's done that I agree with. Too many things I don't agree with clouds my memory unfortunately.

Mostly, it's difficult to respect him because I know he's a fake. I prefer someone who says what he means and does what he says.

He FAILED to immediately close GITMO (despite his assurance that he would promptly close GITMO).

He has actually done a couple of good things. Allowing the incursion into Pakistan to permit the SEALS to get bin Laden was absolutely one of those things.

What else? I recall saying it at USMB on two or three other occasions when he acted along such lines. But they are rare.

As a general rule, he is a massive fail. And a menace to the Republic. I can't wait for his term to finally end. I just hope we aren't saddled, in January of 2017 with some other drone lolberal.

He was blocked from closing Gitmo by republicans, and the only reason you agreed with the BinLaden thing is because fox told you to. Go away teabagger. Come back if you ever try to think for yourself.

Obama is emptying GITMO, so closing it won't be much of an issue for long.

He'd rather turn these terrorists loose than have to deal with them anymore.

Oh, I know. I wonder if he sought to normalize relations with Communist Cuba because he thought it was the proper time to end the old policy OR if he just thought of it as a practical way of compelling the closure of the GITMO detention facility.

How about Obama looked at 50 years of a failed policy and decided that it was a waste of time repeating the same mistake over and over again. It was by opening up communist nations to capitalism that has played a major role in the collapse of communism. This move by Obama spells the end of the road for the Cuban communist regime IMO. Within a decade or two it will be history.

 

[Asclepias]

Times have changed. At one point, Richard Nixon was shamed out of office for using his power to intimidate and spy on his political enemies. In these times, a government may spy on journalists to uncover sources, and collect every scrap of digital litter created by unsuspected citizens, and it may do that without censure.

Thats typically whats happens when one uses a medium to communicate that is easily subject to scrutiny. Its pretty much an automatic assumption that if you are having a conversation that people can hear....they will listen. The internet and the protocols used to make it work were created by the DOD. That alone should let one know they are listening.

 

[Asclepias]

Solely because the president belongs to the 'wrong' political party, that's what's truly ridiculous.

Yep, I married somebody of a darker hue, so that means I hate all people of that skin color.
My wife is half African-American and half Seminole. I didn't marry her because I hate blacks. We've been married so long that I forget a time when I wasn't with her. If anything, I have a very unique perspective of blacks, living from the inside.

So you posers can just suck my hairy teabag.

So you are a race traitor...doesn't take away your idiocy and hate. Let me guess, you are an over bearing control freak. Eber been arrested for domestic violence???

No, have you???
Never laid a hand on her. She's told me that was one of the reasons she married me.

I know brothers figger that they have to beat their wives to keep em in line. At least that seems to be the popular belief. You're not a man unless you beat your wife and screw every ho that bats her eyes at you. Not much of a surprise when you consider that most of the poverty among blacks is because of either broken marriages, single-parent families, or the husband is in prison. Once you live among them long enough you take off the rose-colored glasses and see things the way they really are, not like liberals tend to do. Even Obama isn't an exception. Imagine if his father had been around to raise him. What kind of a man could he have been? Boys need a father around regardless of their race. They need someone to emulate or at least teach them how to act.

Just because you married a half black...it doesn't mean you live among blacks. Obviously, you know nothing of black culture...you simply found a like minded person and nothing more. You know nothing of the black community.

Nutz, please knock it off, you are way out of line.

Actually Mud was out of line. He is white and knows nothing of Black culture. Anytime you say Blacks beat their women to feel like a man as part of their culture you are a fucking fool.

 

[Nutz]

Solely because the president belongs to the 'wrong' political party, that's what's truly ridiculous.

Yep, I married somebody of a darker hue, so that means I hate all people of that skin color.
My wife is half African-American and half Seminole. I didn't marry her because I hate blacks. We've been married so long that I forget a time when I wasn't with her. If anything, I have a very unique perspective of blacks, living from the inside.

So you posers can just suck my hairy teabag.

So you are a race traitor...doesn't take away your idiocy and hate. Let me guess, you are an over bearing control freak. Eber been arrested for domestic violence???

No, have you???
Never laid a hand on her. She's told me that was one of the reasons she married me.

I know brothers figger that they have to beat their wives to keep em in line. At least that seems to be the popular belief. You're not a man unless you beat your wife and screw every ho that bats her eyes at you. Not much of a surprise when you consider that most of the poverty among blacks is because of either broken marriages, single-parent families, or the husband is in prison. Once you live among them long enough you take off the rose-colored glasses and see things the way they really are, not like liberals tend to do. Even Obama isn't an exception. Imagine if his father had been around to raise him. What kind of a man could he have been? Boys need a father around regardless of their race. They need someone to emulate or at least teach them how to act.

Just because you married a half black...it doesn't mean you live among blacks. Obviously, you know nothing of black culture...you simply found a like minded person and nothing more. You know nothing of the black community.

Nutz, please knock it off, you are way out of line.

Whatever you say, mini-mod.