Birth Control Mandate: Is this taking the Religous Liberty Exception too far?

[Esmeralda]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.

And it is an extremely discriminatory mandate - not only on religious grounds, but it is a perfect example of gender discrimination. If it should be covered for women, why shouldn't it be covered for men?

Contraception has EVERYTHING to do with health care. Pregnancy is a health care issue. Getting pregnant has a massive effect on the body. Pregnancy is not a 'lifestyle choice' it is a physical condition that affects the entire body of a woman in the present and in the future. It is a condition that requires a great deal of health care, and preventing a pregnancy is part of that health care issue. Anyone who objects to a woman preventing an pregnancy is living in the Stone Age. What kind of monsters want to force women to have babies they don't want?

It has NOTHING to do with health care.

Pregnancy is a NORMAL state and is avoidable if the woman choses to.

It is a lifestyle option and as any other lifestyle options should be covered by the women themselves.

As it is done everywhere else - starting with the single payer systems

Being ALIVE is a normal state, yet people go to the doctor for check ups to make sure they are in good health. Cleaning your teeth is normal, but it is still a health care issue. A million things are normal and not illnesses, yet we still use health care to address them.

You live in the Stone Age.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

If they fill out a form that the employee can use to get BC coverage....

Not so exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

A form which makes them not exempt.

Prisoner - you are exempt from execution - provided you commit suicide...

Yo leftists - stop violating the Constitution.

 

[Esmeralda]

Your ignorance of Christianity is glaringly obvious.

Poor are the tertiary problem and they are not the only ones.

Pauperus cultists can help the poor themselves instead of delegating that to the others.

But you don't want to help the poor from your OWN money, don't you?

the leftards and their lying hypocrisy

You have a focus on ORGANIZED religion and what such institutions do. You have a total lack of understanding of what Christ stood for.

a militant atheist in her hypocritical stance of "knowledge" what Christ stood for

for promiscuous sex with anything moving and the taxpayer to pay for the abortions the day before deliviery - that is what Christ stood for per militant atheis feminists

I'm not a militant anything; and I was raised a Christian, am baptised and everything. I chose not to practice any religion, doesn't mean I'm an atheist and definitely doesn't mean I am militant. You are the one who is militant. A militant Stone Age thinker.

 

[Esmeralda]

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

If they fill out a form that the employee can use to get BC coverage....

Not so exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

A form which makes them not exempt.

Prisoner - you are exempt from execution - provided you commit suicide...

Yo leftists - stop violating the Constitution.

No, what they are doing is trying to prevent women from getting birth control elsewhere, women who work for them but may not be Catholic. They are attempting to force women who work for them to adhere to a tenet of the Catholic religion and trying to manipulate the law to do so. It's absolutely shameful.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm not a militant anything; and I was raised a Christian, am baptised and everything. I chose not to practice any religion, doesn't mean I'm an atheist and definitely doesn't mean I am militant. You are the one who is militant. A militant Stone Age thinker.

Regardless, the Catholics alone have the right to define their religion. IF you don't like their faith - don't work for them.

Violating the 1st amendment is not acceptable. Look, I realize this is just part of the war the democrats are waging on civil rights, but knock it the fuck off.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, what they are doing is trying to prevent women from getting birth control elsewhere,

Really?

How do they stop her from marching into Walmart and buying a case of condoms?

"They," the Catholics, aren't doing anything. This is purely Obama and the left violating the 1st Amendment as part of the general war on civil rights that the left is waging.

Claiming that an exemption from providing contraceptives - which violates the Catholic faith, is dependent on filling out a form that provides contraceptives, is the sort of head-spinning double-talk that one expects from Soviet Commissars or the Khmer Rouge.

This is Congress creating law which infringes the free exercise of religion. IF you don't agree with the Catholic views - don't fucking work for them. BUT you don't get to remove their civil rights - as Obama is attempting to do.

women who work for them but may not be Catholic.

A vegan who works at Lone Star Steak House has no right to demand a "meat free environment." No one forces a person to seek out and take a job with the Catholic Church. If they do, and they don't like the provisions of the religion - fuck them.

They are attempting to force women who work for them to adhere to a tenet of the Catholic religion and trying to manipulate the law to do so. It's absolutely shameful.

That's right - IT'S THE CATHOLIC CHURCH....

You of the left are at war against civil rights - pure and simple. This is a battle for the 1st Amendment. IF you win, civil liberty is a thing of the past.

 

[Vox]

Contraception has EVERYTHING to do with health care. Pregnancy is a health care issue. Getting pregnant has a massive effect on the body. Pregnancy is not a 'lifestyle choice' it is a physical condition that affects the entire body of a woman in the present and in the future. It is a condition that requires a great deal of health care, and preventing a pregnancy is part of that health care issue. Anyone who objects to a woman preventing an pregnancy is living in the Stone Age. What kind of monsters want to force women to have babies they don't want?

It has NOTHING to do with health care.

Pregnancy is a NORMAL state and is avoidable if the woman choses to.

It is a lifestyle option and as any other lifestyle options should be covered by the women themselves.

As it is done everywhere else - starting with the single payer systems

Being ALIVE is a normal state, yet people go to the doctor for check ups to make sure they are in good health. Cleaning your teeth is normal, but it is still a health care issue. A million things are normal and not illnesses, yet we still use health care to address them.

You live in the Stone Age.

Birth control is NOT a healthcare problem.

pregnancy IS a normal state and is avoidable by lifestyle options.
Government has no role in mandating the lifestyle choices.

Period.

If you want to live under gubmint total control - move to Cuba or North Korea and enjoy.

 

[Vox]

You have a focus on ORGANIZED religion and what such institutions do. You have a total lack of understanding of what Christ stood for.

a militant atheist in her hypocritical stance of "knowledge" what Christ stood for

for promiscuous sex with anything moving and the taxpayer to pay for the abortions the day before deliviery - that is what Christ stood for per militant atheis feminists

I'm not a militant anything; and I was raised a Christian, am baptised and everything. I chose not to practice any religion, doesn't mean I'm an atheist and definitely doesn't mean I am militant. You are the one who is militant. A militant Stone Age thinker.

what you were born and raised does not change the pure fact that NOW you ARE a militant flaming leftard atheist and a feminista fascista

 

[paperview]

No, what they are doing is trying to prevent women from getting birth control elsewhere,

Really?

How do they stop her from marching into Walmart and buying a case of condoms?

"They," the Catholics, aren't doing anything. This is purely Obama and the left violating the 1st Amendment as part of the general war on civil rights that the left is waging.

Claiming that an exemption from providing contraceptives - which violates the Catholic faith, is dependent on filling out a form that provides contraceptives, is the sort of head-spinning double-talk that one expects from Soviet Commissars or the Khmer Rouge.

This is Congress creating law which infringes the free exercise of religion. IF you don't agree with the Catholic views - don't fucking work for them. BUT you don't get to remove their civil rights - as Obama is attempting to do.

women who work for them but may not be Catholic.

A vegan who works at Lone Star Steak House has no right to demand a "meat free environment." No one forces a person to seek out and take a job with the Catholic Church. If they do, and they don't like the provisions of the religion - fuck them.

They are attempting to force women who work for them to adhere to a tenet of the Catholic religion and trying to manipulate the law to do so. It's absolutely shameful.

That's right - IT'S THE CATHOLIC CHURCH....

You of the left are at war against civil rights - pure and simple. This is a battle for the 1st Amendment. IF you win, civil liberty is a thing of the past.

You obviously haven't read the case.

The Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust - which is the ins. company these religious orgs use -- has no plans to offer Birth Control.

They are exempt.

Get it?

 

[paperview]

It has NOTHING to do with health care.

Pregnancy is a NORMAL state and is avoidable if the woman choses to.

It is a lifestyle option and as any other lifestyle options should be covered by the women themselves.

As it is done everywhere else - starting with the single payer systems

Being ALIVE is a normal state, yet people go to the doctor for check ups to make sure they are in good health. Cleaning your teeth is normal, but it is still a health care issue. A million things are normal and not illnesses, yet we still use health care to address them.

You live in the Stone Age.

Birth control is NOT a healthcare problem.

pregnancy IS a normal state and is avoidable by lifestyle options.
Government has no role in mandating the lifestyle choices.

Period.

If you want to live under gubmint total control - move to Cuba or North Korea and enjoy.

Birth Control is also used to treat medical problems, doof.

In this case, it still doesn't matter - as the org do not have to provide BC, nor does their insurance company - the Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust.

EXEMPT. Both.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.
...

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You obviously haven't read the case.

I obviously have.

The "exemption" is a farce. They are only exempt IF they fill out a form which provides contraceptive coverage to their employees.

The Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust - which is the ins. company these religious orgs use -- has no plans to offer Birth Control.

They are exempt.

Get it?

The form then provides Birth Control - get it? They are NOT exempt. This is a farce of Khmer Rouge proportions.

You want employee provided birth control? Don't work for the fucking Catholic Church.

Oh, and I STRONGLY support birth control.

However, this is a fight over civil rights - Obama is attempting to revoke the first amendment.

 

[paperview]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.
...

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

Not true. The insurance company is exempt as well. They provide

"a "church plan" under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act, meaning that it is exempt from regulation by the government."

Government: Little Sisters Have No Case | Religion Dispatches

There is nothing in the filings or in the case which would require them to pay for any second policy to provide coverage. Read the case.

I'll post the short form they have to fill out if you like.

 

[chikenwing]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.
...

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

 

[paperview]

The nuns and Christian Brothers Trust do not have to provide BC coverage, and the issue comes down to having to filing out the paperwork.

"Last month, U.S. District Judge William J. Martinez agreed with the nuns that they were a religious organization under the act even though they are not a church. Based on the group's history and mission, he said, all they had to do to avoid the substantial penalties the government levies against employers who violate the law was fill out and submit a form to the group administering their employee health care plan.

The form amounts to nothing more than a self-certification that "on account of religious objections, the organization opposes providing coverage for some or all of any contraceptive services that would otherwise be required to be covered; the organization is organized and operates as a nonprofit entity; and the organization holds itself out as a religious organization."


That, presumably, should not be offensive to the nuns' religious beliefs; rather, it affirms them.

What they seem to be objecting to is the fact that the form also includes instructions for how the health plan administrator should process claims for contraceptive services to ensure that the Little Sisters are not involved in either the paperwork or payment for them. Since the nuns' health plan administrator, Christian Brothers Services, another Catholic charitable group, says it has no intention of providing contraceptive coverage, that, too, would not seem to be a problem. As Judge Martinez put it, the nuns' continued objection "ignores the factual and legal realities of the case."


Read more: Catonsville nuns group not required to provide birth control under Obamacare, judge says - baltimoresun.com

 

[paperview]

This

is the form. The major problem they have is filling it out.


CERTIFICATION

(To be used for plan years beginning on or after January 1, 2014)
This form is to be used to certify that the health coverage established or maintained or arranged by the organization listed below qualifies for an accommodation with respect to the federal requirement to cover certain contraceptive services without cost sharing, pursuant to 26 CFR 54.9815-2713A, 29 CFR 2590.715-2713A, and 45 CFR 147.131.

Please fill out this form completely. This form must be completed by each eligible organization by the first day of the first plan year beginning on or after January 1, 2014, with respect to which the accommodation is to apply, and be made available for examination upon request. This form must be maintained on file for at least 6 years following the end of the last applicable plan year.


Name of the organization
Name and title of the individual who is authorized to make, and makes, this certification on behalf of the organization
Mailing and email addresses and phone number for the individual listed above
I certify that, on account of religious objections, the organization opposes providing coverage for some or all of any contraceptive services that would otherwise be required to be covered; the organization is organized and operates as a nonprofit entity; and the organization holds itself out as a religious organization.

Note: An organization that offers coverage through the same group health plan as a religious employer (as defined in 45 CFR 147.131(a)) and/or an eligible organization (as defined in 26 CFR 54.9815-2713A(a); 29 CFR 2590.715-2713A(a); 45 CFR 147.131(b)), and that is part of the same controlled group of corporations as, or under common control with, such employer and/or organization (each within the meaning of section 52(a) or (b) of the Internal Revenue Code), may certify that it holds itself out as a religious organization.

I declare that I have made this certification, and that, to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is true and correct. I also declare that this certification is complete.


______________________________________

Signature of the individual listed above


______________________________________

Date
The organization or its plan must provide a copy of this certification to the plan’s health insurance issuer(s) (for insured health plans) or third party administrator(s) (for self-insured health plans) in order for the plan to be accommodated with respect to the contraceptive coverage requirement.

Notice to Third Party Administrators of Self-Insured Health Plans

In the case of a group health plan that provides benefits on a self-insured basis, the provision of this certification to a plan’s third party administrator that will process claims for contraceptive coverage required under 26 CFR 54.9815-2713(a)(1)(iv) or 29 CFR 2590.715-2713(a)(1)(iv) constitutes notice to the third party administrator that:

(1) The eligible organization will not act as the plan administrator or claims administrator with respect to claims for contraceptive services, or contribute to the funding of contraceptive services; and

(2) Obligations of the third party administrator are set forth in 26 CFR 54.9815-2713A, 29 CFR 2510.3-16, and 29 CFR 2590.715-2713A.

This certification is an instrument under which the plan is operated. _____________________

http://cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Form...es/Downloads/cms-10459-certificationdocx.docx

 

[percysunshine]

You would think that Obama would get the hint from his own selected Supreme Court judge that he will loose this if it comes before SCOTUS.

If he wants to do it the hard way....

 

[paperview]

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

 

[paperview]

Here is the Order from the judge.

It states right there the government can't fine them.

"...Plaintiffs Little Sisters of the Poor, who provide health insurance for their employees through the Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust, may opt out from the Mandate by completing a self-certification form and providing it to the third-party administrator, Christian Brothers
Services, and (2) in addition, because the Trust is a self-insured “church plan” exempt from ERISA, the third-party administrator, Christian Brothers Services, would not be subject to fines or penalties. "

The Sisters use The Christian Brothers Services Ins trust -- and it's the other groups that use this trust that are included.

 

[chikenwing]

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

A from their legal council told them not to sign. This is not hard stuff