Boycott Israel

[P F Tinmore]

More and more people embrace #BDS because it is the right choice for those who believe in justice.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I have no idea where you are going with this.

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 22916540, member: 21837"
Did they pave all of those roads too?
Nice deflection.

(COMMENT)

No city of antiquity sprouts up fully formed.

Jerusalem, which has paved, concrete and cobblestone roads, and dates back before to prehistoric times. There was no political subdivision known as Palestine. In fact, Judah and Sumeria (as most of the major cities in the region) predate Palestine as a territorial name.

So, which city is this?

v/r
R

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hollie]

More and more people embrace #BDS because it is the right choice for those who believe in justice.

With obvious connections to islamic terrorist franchises and islamic terrorist sympathizers, BDS is much more about insensate Jew hatreds and the Arab-Moslem revulsion for the State of Israel.

 

[Hollie]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

So, which city is this?

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

So, which city is this?

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Manchester #BoycottPuma

 

[Hollie]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

So, which city is this?

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

So, which city is this?

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

So, which city is this?

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

I can't link to what never existed.

If your claim is that the Arab-Moslem squatters held soverignty over a specific territory, prove your claim.

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

So, which city is this?

That city is Gaza.It was built by the people who have been living there for a long time. Who became Palestinians in 1924.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

I can't link to what never existed.

If your claim is that the Arab-Moslem squatters held soverignty over a specific territory, prove your claim.

Link?

You keep blowing that smoke but can't prove your point.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you are partly correct.

(COMMENT)

The people who lived in Gaza had always been citizens (of someplace). The Great War did NOT create any "stateless people" in that region of the world. It became a question of what sovereignty was going to grant citizenship. In the case of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, the British Empire granted citizenship through the Government of Palestine (GoP) devised under the Mandate in 1920 when the Civil Administration replaced the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). The various documents of authority in the Post-War era were merely means of formalization.

The City of Gaza itself has been around for more than four millennia. In that time, the region in which the City is located has changed in political control many, many times. But, in 1918, when the territory came under the control of the OETA, the City of Gaza transitioned from the Independent Sanjak (Jerusalem) to British Control (ie Ottoman Citizenship to GoP.

Most Respectfully
R

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

I can't link to what never existed.

If your claim is that the Arab-Moslem squatters held soverignty over a specific territory, prove your claim.

Link?

You keep blowing that smoke but can't prove your point.

Another of your juvenile tactics where your inability to support your statements resolves to hysterical demands that others prove a negative.

So, I did prove my point. Prove I didn't.

Thanks.

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

I can't link to what never existed.

If your claim is that the Arab-Moslem squatters held soverignty over a specific territory, prove your claim.

Link?

You keep blowing that smoke but can't prove your point.

Another of your juvenile tactics where your inability to support your statements resolves to hysterical demands that others prove a negative.

So, I did prove my point. Prove I didn't.

Thanks.

Link?

So, Israel has no land or borders.

 

[Hollie]

Irrelevant, indeed.

Indeed, the Arab-Moslem squatters never had sovereignty.

Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

I can't link to what never existed.

If your claim is that the Arab-Moslem squatters held soverignty over a specific territory, prove your claim.

Link?

You keep blowing that smoke but can't prove your point.

Another of your juvenile tactics where your inability to support your statements resolves to hysterical demands that others prove a negative.

So, I did prove my point. Prove I didn't.

Thanks.

Link?

So, Israel has no land or borders.

So, you're spamming the thread as a means to avoid your failure to address the issue of sovereignty never held by the Arabs-Moslems.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Here you are, playing the foolishness again. I did not even address sovereignty here. But if the Allied Powers had wanted to establish sovereignty, nothing prohibits that --- that is nothing they could not change.

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

But now that you mention it... What would sovereignty give the Mandatory that they did not already have? After all, the Mandatory had in the conduct of the administration of the territory of Palestine:

◈ Responsible for putting into effect the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people (JNH).

◈ The Mandatory undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions:

• Article 22 (paragraph 8) League of Nations Covenant: "The degree of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council."

• full powers of legislation and of administration.

• placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home

• development of self-governing institutions

• encourage local autonomy

• Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of:

✦ advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine

◇ economic,
◇ social
◇ other matters as may affect the establishment of the JNH
​

✦ assist and take part in the development of the country.

✦ secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
​

• Shall insure that the territory is protected against it being ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

• Ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced.

• Ensuring Immigration is effected under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency.

• Enacting a Nationality Law.

• Ensure Nationality Law is framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

• Responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine:

✦ Shall apply fairly to foreigners,

✦ Shall apply fairly to natives,​

• Extradition agreements relating to Palestine.

• Take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country.

• Full power to provide for public ownership or control of:

✦ The natural resources of the country.

✦ Public Services and Utilities​

• Shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country.

• Arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country.

• control of the foreign relations of Palestine:

✦ Issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers.

✦ Entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine.​

• Responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access.

✦ Holy Places, religious buildings and sites.

✦ Ensuring the free exercise of worship.

✦ Ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum.
​

Etc, etc, etc ...

NOTE: The pre-1948 documented decisions are historical in nature, and NOT effectively in play or relevant today, given that there are Peace Treaties that supercede those agreements.

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
​

(QUESTION)

What would sovereignty instill that the Mandatory did not already have?

(COMMENT)

Please don't bring up "sovereignty" unless it is an actual point of contention. Since the time of the execution of self-determination and its successful defense (Independence of the State of Israel), Israel has but a very few times extended its sovereignty.

Nothing the Israelis have done, interfered with a move for self-determination by the Arab Palestinians, as prior to November 1988, the Arab Palestinians had declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions. By 1988, the entirety of the West Bank was abandoned into the hands of the Israeli by the Hashemite Kingdom.

On your point of emphasis on the issue of "temporarily" assigned trustees:

Q: What is the limit of temporary?​

(OBSERVATION)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not established themselves under International Law: (Customary or Intern'l Humanitarian Law IHL)

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts
(Protocol I), 8 June 1977.

Basic rule
Article 48 [ Link ] -- Basic ruale

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.​

As we look at the various confrontations in the West Bank or the border clashes along the perimeter of the Gaza Strip, there is a "sovereignty" on one side, but an entity of an undetermined nature on the other side. The entity is identified as HAMAS (the Islamic Resistance Movement and associated insurgencies).

(QUESTIONs)

When we look at the rabble along the border, what are we looking at?

Is the entity in the West Bank, of Arab Palestinians, the same kind of entity as what is observed in the Gaza Strip?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is what we call the "Denial of Reality."

So, Israel has no land or borders.

(COMMENT)

You can claim this all you want. But every state operating in the Middle East Region knows where the demarcations lines, international boundaries, and the Aid Defesnse lines are.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Here you are, playing the foolishness again. I did not even address sovereignty here. But if the Allied Powers had wanted to establish sovereignty, nothing prohibits that --- that is nothing they could not change.

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

But now that you mention it... What would sovereignty give the Mandatory that they did not already have? After all, the Mandatory had in the conduct of the administration of the territory of Palestine:

◈ Responsible for putting into effect the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people (JNH).

◈ The Mandatory undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions:

• Article 22 (paragraph 8) League of Nations Covenant: "The degree of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council."

• full powers of legislation and of administration.

• placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home

• development of self-governing institutions

• encourage local autonomy

• Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of:

✦ advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine

◇ economic,
◇ social
◇ other matters as may affect the establishment of the JNH
​

✦ assist and take part in the development of the country.

✦ secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.​

• Shall insure that the territory is protected against it being ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

• Ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced.

• Ensuring Immigration is effected under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency.

• Enacting a Nationality Law.

• Ensure Nationality Law is framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

• Responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine:

✦ Shall apply fairly to foreigners,

✦ Shall apply fairly to natives,​

• Extradition agreements relating to Palestine.

• Take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country.

• Full power to provide for public ownership or control of:

✦ The natural resources of the country.

✦ Public Services and Utilities​

• Shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country.

• Arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country.

• control of the foreign relations of Palestine:

✦ Issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers.

✦ Entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine.​

• Responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access.

✦ Holy Places, religious buildings and sites.

✦ Ensuring the free exercise of worship.

✦ Ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum.​

Etc, etc, etc ...

NOTE: The pre-1948 documented decisions are historical in nature, and NOT effectively in play or relevant today, given that there are Peace Treaties that supercede those agreements.

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
​

(QUESTION)

What would sovereignty instill that the Mandatory did not already have?

(COMMENT)

Please don't bring up "sovereignty" unless it is an actual point of contention. Since the time of the execution of self-determination and its successful defense (Independence of the State of Israel), Israel has but a very few times extended its sovereignty.

Nothing the Israelis have done, interfered with a move for self-determination by the Arab Palestinians, as prior to November 1988, the Arab Palestinians had declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions. By 1988, the entirety of the West Bank was abandoned into the hands of the Israeli by the Hashemite Kingdom.

On your point of emphasis on the issue of "temporarily" assigned trustees:

Q: What is the limit of temporary?​

(OBSERVATION)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not established themselves under International Law: (Customary or Intern'l Humanitarian Law IHL)

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts
(Protocol I), 8 June 1977.

Basic rule
Article 48 [ Link ] -- Basic ruale

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.​

As we look at the various confrontations in the West Bank or the border clashes along the perimeter of the Gaza Strip, there is a "sovereignty" on one side, but an entity of an undetermined nature on the other side. The entity is identified as HAMAS (the Islamic Resistance Movement and associated insurgencies).

(QUESTIONs)

When we look at the rabble along the border, what are we looking at?

Is the entity in the West Bank, of Arab Palestinians, the same kind of entity as what is observed in the Gaza Strip?

Most Respectfully,
R

You keep saying that the Palestinians do not have sovereignty but have never proved that point.

You confuse military control with sovereignty.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is what we call the "Denial of Reality."

So, Israel has no land or borders.

(COMMENT)

You can claim this all you want. But every state operating in the Middle East Region knows where the demarcations lines, international boundaries, and the Aid Defesnse lines are.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice duck.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Here you are, playing the foolishness again. I did not even address sovereignty here. But if the Allied Powers had wanted to establish sovereignty, nothing prohibits that --- that is nothing they could not change.

Irrelevant.

Mandates were temporarily assigned trustees. They had no sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

But now that you mention it... What would sovereignty give the Mandatory that they did not already have? After all, the Mandatory had in the conduct of the administration of the territory of Palestine:

◈ Responsible for putting into effect the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people (JNH).

◈ The Mandatory undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions:

• Article 22 (paragraph 8) League of Nations Covenant: "The degree of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council."

• full powers of legislation and of administration.

• placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home

• development of self-governing institutions

• encourage local autonomy

• Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of:

✦ advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine

◇ economic,
◇ social
◇ other matters as may affect the establishment of the JNH
​

✦ assist and take part in the development of the country.

✦ secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.​

• Shall insure that the territory is protected against it being ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power.

• Ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced.

• Ensuring Immigration is effected under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency.

• Enacting a Nationality Law.

• Ensure Nationality Law is framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

• Responsible for seeing that the judicial system established in Palestine:

✦ Shall apply fairly to foreigners,

✦ Shall apply fairly to natives,​

• Extradition agreements relating to Palestine.

• Take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country.

• Full power to provide for public ownership or control of:

✦ The natural resources of the country.

✦ Public Services and Utilities​

• Shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country.

• Arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the natural resources of the country.

• control of the foreign relations of Palestine:

✦ Issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers.

✦ Entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine.​

• Responsibility in connection with the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing rights and of securing free access.

✦ Holy Places, religious buildings and sites.

✦ Ensuring the free exercise of worship.

✦ Ensuring the requirements of public order and decorum.​

Etc, etc, etc ...

NOTE: The pre-1948 documented decisions are historical in nature, and NOT effectively in play or relevant today, given that there are Peace Treaties that supercede those agreements.

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
​

(QUESTION)

What would sovereignty instill that the Mandatory did not already have?

(COMMENT)

Please don't bring up "sovereignty" unless it is an actual point of contention. Since the time of the execution of self-determination and its successful defense (Independence of the State of Israel), Israel has but a very few times extended its sovereignty.

Nothing the Israelis have done, interfered with a move for self-determination by the Arab Palestinians, as prior to November 1988, the Arab Palestinians had declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions. By 1988, the entirety of the West Bank was abandoned into the hands of the Israeli by the Hashemite Kingdom.

On your point of emphasis on the issue of "temporarily" assigned trustees:

Q: What is the limit of temporary?​

(OBSERVATION)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have not established themselves under International Law: (Customary or Intern'l Humanitarian Law IHL)

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts
(Protocol I), 8 June 1977.

Basic rule
Article 48 [ Link ] -- Basic ruale

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives.​

As we look at the various confrontations in the West Bank or the border clashes along the perimeter of the Gaza Strip, there is a "sovereignty" on one side, but an entity of an undetermined nature on the other side. The entity is identified as HAMAS (the Islamic Resistance Movement and associated insurgencies).

(QUESTIONs)

When we look at the rabble along the border, what are we looking at?

Is the entity in the West Bank, of Arab Palestinians, the same kind of entity as what is observed in the Gaza Strip?

Most Respectfully,
R

You keep saying that the Palestinians do not have sovereignty but have never proved that point.

You confuse military control with sovereignty.

What point regarding sovereignty are you confused about?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are so confused.

The military is NOT Sovereignty. You are correct on that point. BUT, military control by one nation can prevent any other entity from gaining sovereignty.

The West Bank, as an example, except for Area "A" is not sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory (State of Palestine). But Areas "B" and "C" are not sovereign to either. The State of Palestine does not have exclusive political control over either, yet Israel does not yet want to assume Sovereignty (except for what the Knesset has passed under the law).

As far as the Gaza Strip is concerned, the Israelis turned that ground over by unilateral withdrawal and abandonment. But the "State of Palestine" does NOT have exclusive control over the Gaza Strip, as having the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and a few other influences [Including Iran's Revolutionary Guards - Quds Force (IRGC-QF)] prevents exclusive controls by any other.

You keep saying that the Palestinians do not have sovereignty but have never proved that point.

You confuse military control with sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

In the period in which the "territorialization of power" was formulated (the idea of defined territory combined with a defined government) there developed a system of mutually recognized sovereign territorial states. We called this → "Territorial Sovereignty" (sovereignty in short form). This concept, while not entirely universal, has been accepted generally accepted even by the Arab-Muslim World.

Sovereignty in regard to a territory is known as territorial sovereignty. Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.[3] It has a positive and negative aspect.[4] The first aspect relates to the exclusivity of the right of the State with regard to its own territory, while the second aspect refers to the obligation to protect the rights of other States.

A State exercises its territorial sovereignty within its boundary. Boundary is an imaginary line that delineates the territorial limit of a State.[5] Boundaries are of three dimensions.[6] They include the State land and the maritime domain of its internal waters and territorial sea, the airspace and its subsoil. They are either natural topographical, having physical distinguishable features such as mountains, rivers or lakes, or imaginary and artificial such as lines of attitude and longitude, surveyor lines or posts. Both types have equal legal effects and usually based upon treaties or historical title.
SOURCE: • Private Site for Legal Research and Studies •

Footnotes;

[1] See L. Oppenheim, 1 International Law, p. 563, eds. R.J. Jennings and A.D. Watts, 9th ed. London (1992).

[2] See J.L. Brierly, Law of Nations, p. 142, 4th ed., Oxford (1949).

[3] See Shaw, pp. 411-12.

[4] Id. p. 412.

[5] Bledsoe & Boczek, p. 143.

[6] Id. pp. 143-4

Now is this "proof?" No!

This is only as good as the next war outcome. In fact, this concept is only been around since the time of the Treaties of Westphalia (o/a ≈ 1640s). But this series of political outcomes was really driven by the need for the European Monarchs, the Tsar, and the Sultan, in the time of the big empires to reach a common understanding that it was very legitimate and within the right of the Imperial Leaders to govern their peoples → free from outside interference (sound familiar?)... The next World War to end all World Wars might spring an entirely new concept.

BUT for now, the question to ask in Wesphaline fashion is: since 1918, when the Ottoman Empire surrendered aboard the HMS Agamemnon (surrender including the Sanjak now known as Israel and the disputed territories), did the Arab Palestinians exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State?

Remember, having the "right" to sovereignty IS NOT the same as exercising sovereignty. And this is the rather easiest question to answer. That comes before we explore the concept of competence and capacity to be a state that can stand alone.

Most Respectfully,
R