Bradley Manning Sentenced To 35 Years:

[Billo_Really]

I thought we were talking about the laughing while they were shooting...

That 'Just pick it up' business is another matter...

But I'll consciously permit myself to be sidetracked for the moment, just to clear this off the plate, and to get back to the Gallows Humor bit...

DID the guy 'pick it up'?

If he did, it was probably a 'righteous shoot' after all...

To be accorded the protection of 'wounded' status, you must disarm, or otherwise not be responsible for the arms in your possession (unconscious, etc.)...

Consciously pick up a weapon, and you throw any such protection right out the window...

WANTING to shoot the guy and looking for and finding an excuse to do so, is a different matter than actually shooting the guy without an excuse.

Of course our people WANT to kill the enemy... it's what they're trained for... and the more they kill, each time an opportunity presents itself, the fewer will be alive to shoot at them on another day.

It's an understandable mentality.

Have you served in combat (or simply trained extensively in any of the combat arms) in the military?

Translation: Do you have any related credentials that might be of use to you in correctly interpreting what you are seeing and hearing, in-context?

Having such credentials is not necessary to understanding but it sure-as-hell helps.

So, DO you have such credentials?

Except wanting to kill the very people we are supposed to be liberating, is an entirely different matter.

Those people standing around outside of that house were not armed, were not making any hostile gestures, were not enemy belligerents and yet, they were still gunned down in cold blood.

 

[Billo_Really]

Show me where Manning went to the IG.

I ain't doing shit until you answer the questions I asked you, you fuckin' troll!

 

[Kondor3]

"...Have you served in combat (or simply trained extensively in any of the combat arms) in the military?...Translation: Do you have any related credentials that might be of use to you in correctly interpreting what you are seeing and hearing, in-context?..."

I'll take the absence of an answer as a Resounding 'No', as a placeholder.

"...Except wanting to kill the very people we are supposed to be liberating, is an entirely different matter..."

You are dealing with ground-support combat aviators tasked with protecting an oncoming American combat detachment, smack-dab in the middle of an insurgency; combat conditions, with the insurgents shooting at you. Such feelings are entirely natural.

"...Those people standing around outside of that house were not armed, were not making any hostile gestures, were not enemy belligerents and yet, they were still gunned down in cold blood..."

The aircrews openly declared that they had 4-5 people carrying AK-47s and at least one with an RPG; although it is extremely difficult to distinguish the swinging straps on cameras from the swinging straps on AK-47s in that gawdawful crappy video footage.

I'm inclined to take their word for it, although I'm also perfectly willing to concede that one or two of those persons probably were carrying cameras rather than weapons.

If true, then, we are talking about a mix of armed and unarmed people in that group, and, if that, in turn, is true, then, the entire group becomes a legitimate target.

One a group is considered a legitimate target, then mentality becomes: "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out."

A mentality that has existed in the militaries of most countries for a very long time, ours included.

No surprise there, at least.

 

[Kondor3]

I looked at the entire 17-minutes-long video sequence within the past hour, as a memory-refresher of an original viewing months ago, and I did not see a reason to fire upon the van that came-up after Shoot-Sequence No. 1...

It seems as though our fellas got carried away, in undertaking Shoot-Sequence No. 2...

But, if true, then this could have been handled through the IG's office, rather than trusting to Whats-His-Face from WikiLeaks...

 

[FA_Q2]

"...Now are you going to comment on the soldiers in the Apache joking around while they were pulling the trigger?"

Have you ever been tasked to kill a bunch of people?

I, for one, have not.

But I can understand the faux bravado and comedic chatter while that's underway.

Trying to share the experience and to shake-off the willies while you're in the middle of killing folk by remote control, from a distance.

It's called Gallows Humor, and it doesn't signify, insofar as I can discern, at first glance.

Troops do that all the time... helps 'em to hang onto their sanity, while they're doing it.

The only difference here is that the Gallows Humor was caught on tape, and then misused by people who don't understand what they were looking-at and listening-to, in that context.

Happens all the time... and always has... since time immemorial... and as far into the future as your imagination can carry you...

And it doesn't mean a damned thing...

Or so it seems to this US Army veteran, and observer here...

The fact that people do not seem to understand this basic fact makes me rather sick. None of the people trying to rail these soldiers are willing to look at the stress and insane things that they have to deal with DAILY. Instead, they sit on their fat ass with a bag of Cheetos railing against the jokes that solders use to not go absolutely insane. It looks uncouth and bad but no one has a right to demean them for it unless they are willing to go there themselves and actually understand what is going on.

We can judge the actions under international and military law, the decisions of those in command by the results and legality but you CANNOT judge the demeanor or survival methods of those in the shit until you are there and understand what it is they are going through.

 

[FA_Q2]

There are people here...Billo_Really most notably...who refuse to believe that the shoot was righteous. I've shown him several times that the "journalist" was carrying weapons.

He would rather believe the terrorists than his own eyes.

I am believing my own eyes. I'm saying what I'm seeing. You're the disgusting piece of shit trying to say something different.

If that "shoot" was so righteous, why were the soldiers in the Apache joking around while they were murdering these people in cold blood?

If that "shoot" was so righteous, why did they shoot people trying to help the wounded?

Answered several time in this thread.

 

[daveman]

Thanks for proving my point!

Just answer the fucking questions, you cock-sucking coward!

Ooooh. Am I supposed to be intimidated?

Because, you know -- I'm not.

You've made it quite clear that you hold the insurgents innocent in this matter, and the US military guilty -- even after having been shown the evidence that proves you wrong.

So who's the coward?

 

[daveman]

Show me where Manning went to the IG.

I ain't doing shit until you answer the questions I asked you, you fuckin' troll!

My goodness. Take your blood pressure medication...and whatever psychoactives you're on, too, for that matter.

 

[Pete7469]

There are people here...Billo_Really most notably...who refuse to believe that the shoot was righteous. I've shown him several times that the "journalist" was carrying weapons.

He would rather believe the terrorists than his own eyes.

I am believing my own eyes. I'm saying what I'm seeing. You're the disgusting piece of shit trying to say something different.

If that "shoot" was so righteous, why were the soldiers in the Apache joking around while they were murdering these people in cold blood?

If that "shoot" was so righteous, why did they shoot people trying to help the wounded?

Thanks for proving my point!

It's real easy for people to judge the actions of players in a game they've never played. On a field they've never stood on. In a land they've never been in. In a circumstance they wouldn't put themselves in.

Bed wetters love to judge people who do things they could never do, because they're too self absorbed to do anything that might benefit someone else if they risk injury to themselves, or even have to sweat a little.

Billobedwetter, you're use of Sam Kinison in your avatar is an insult to the man. If you had any character, you wouldn't use it. Your posts further prove it.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

BTW, you're welcome bed wetters. However quickly approaching is the time where people stop exerting themselves in your defense, and endeavor to exert themselves in their own defense.

Take that whatever way you like.

 

[Billo_Really]

Bed wetters love to judge people who do things they could never do, because they're too self absorbed to do anything that might benefit someone else if they risk injury to themselves, or even have to sweat a little.

I don't see how murdering innocent Iraqis in cold blood benefit anyone.

Billobedwetter, you're use of Sam Kinison in your avatar is an insult to the man. If you had any character, you wouldn't use it. Your posts further prove it.

I've forgotton more about Kinison, than you even know about the man!

 

[Billo_Really]

Ooooh. Am I supposed to be intimidated?

Because, you know -- I'm not.

You've made it quite clear that you hold the insurgents innocent in this matter, and the US military guilty -- even after having been shown the evidence that proves you wrong.

So who's the coward?

You are!

Because you don't have the balls to answer two simple little questions.

 

[Billo_Really]

Answered several time in this thread.

Name the posts they were specifically answered in, or shut your fuckin' mouth!

 

[daveman]

Ooooh. Am I supposed to be intimidated?

Because, you know -- I'm not.

You've made it quite clear that you hold the insurgents innocent in this matter, and the US military guilty -- even after having been shown the evidence that proves you wrong.

So who's the coward?

You are!

Because you don't have the balls to answer two simple little questions.

Coming from you, that's absolutely meaningless.

I've answered your silly questions. It's really no concern of mine that you don't like the answers.

Now, do me a favor -- don't screech "Nuh UH!! You haven't answered my questions! Link it!" -- because we both know that I and others have.

 

[FA_Q2]

Answered several time in this thread.

Name the posts they were specifically answered in, or shut your fuckin' mouth!

No.

Now that was fun

Would you like to spew a few more obscenities while spittle is flying from your mouth? I don’t really know how you operate while filled with so much hate. Perhaps not having to be rational helps…

 

[daveman]

Answered several time in this thread.

Name the posts they were specifically answered in, or shut your fuckin' mouth!

Make him.



Dood. Chill out. I know you hate anyone speaking ill of your beloved terrorists, but it's over. They're dead. Their days of shooting at US troops are over.

Have a good cry and get over it.

 

[daveman]

Answered several time in this thread.

Name the posts they were specifically answered in, or shut your fuckin' mouth!

No.

Now that was fun

Would you like to spew a few more obscenities while spittle is flying from your mouth? I don’t really know how you operate while filled with so much hate. Perhaps not having to be rational helps…

 

[Kondor3]

"...The fact that people do not seem to understand this basic fact makes me rather sick. None of the people trying to rail these soldiers are willing to look at the stress and insane things that they have to deal with DAILY. Instead, they sit on their fat ass with a bag of Cheetos railing against the jokes that solders use to not go absolutely insane. It looks uncouth and bad but no one has a right to demean them for it unless they are willing to go there themselves and actually understand what is going on.

We can judge the actions under international and military law, the decisions of those in command by the results and legality but you CANNOT judge the demeanor or survival methods of those in the shit until you are there and understand what it is they are going through."

Jackpot...

Unless they've worn the uniform and served or trained in one of the Combat Arms specialties, and have a clue, and have earned the right to speak-out on such, their observations in this narrow context (passing judgment on Gallows Humor at such times) are little more than com-chatter and static...

 

[Pete7469]

Answered several time in this thread.

Name the posts they were specifically answered in, or shut your fuckin' mouth!

No.

Now that was fun

Would you like to spew a few more obscenities while spittle is flying from your mouth? I don’t really know how you operate while filled with so much hate. Perhaps not having to be rational helps…

I can't rep you anymore but that cock sucker can kiss my ass for you.

 

[Vox]

I've heard that "journalists" embedded with the insurgents would take pictures of Coalition troops and then show them to the insurgents so they could better target them.

Collateral Murder - The WikiLeaks Deception | Telling the Whole Story

I just showed my husband this footage. He was there and had a role in reviewing the investigation on this case. His response below might clarify some things.

This footage shows the final engagement of the Reuters field reporters in New Baghdad. Missing is the overwatch video and earlier AH64 footage showing the development of the situation where the two reporters and armed men supported by a van and cars were shadowing a Coalition patrol. These reporters accompanied the armed men who were tracking a Coalition patrol about a city block away. The camera man would peek around corners to shoot a few digital frames of the patrol and then show the pictures to the armed men. If you have all the video footage, you will see this activity happened repeatedly. The operational suspicion was that this was enemy TTP (tactic, technic, or procedure) to help prepare for an attack; the digital photos would be used to quickly evaluate the target — to judge what it looked like, its shape, distance, terrain in between, where to aim, etc. This way, the RPG operator would select the right warhead, he’d preset the mechanical sights (elevation), and fix in his mind a visual picture of the target so he would limit his exposure time when stepping out in the street to fire. The recovered camera showed how the cameral man was aiding the enemy.​

yep. that is EXACTLY what was revealed after the initial material release by Wikileaks - not only was the video doctored ( cut off the crucial parts) but the journalists were involved in the incident actively taking the part of the insurgents which were firing the RPGs at the helicopter.

There are people here...Billo_Really most notably...who refuse to believe that the shoot was righteous. I've shown him several times that the "journalist" was carrying weapons.

He would rather believe the terrorists than his own eyes.

that's a worshiper mentality. he was TOLD by his "side" it's a "war crime", therefore it HAS TO be a war crime.

 

[Vox]

There are people here...Billo_Really most notably...who refuse to believe that the shoot was righteous. I've shown him several times that the "journalist" was carrying weapons.

He would rather believe the terrorists than his own eyes.

I am believing my own eyes. I'm saying what I'm seeing. You're the disgusting piece of shit trying to say something different.

If that "shoot" was so righteous, why were the soldiers in the Apache joking around while they were murdering these people in cold blood?

If that "shoot" was so righteous, why did they shoot people trying to help the wounded?

would you be equally appalled knowing what kind of jokes go around during the surgery?