BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Cong

[depotoo]

oh i see.
i've never denied seeing the queen of england's underwear, so i must have seen it.

Immature attempt at a response.

If you were in the public eye and people were saying that you saw the queens underwear and, through your attorney who has been responding to allegations against you, you did not deny it...

It would be proper to assume you saw the queens underwear.

what's immature is believing that because someone hasn't denied something it means they've done it.

who has asked lerner if she was given camp's letter?

We do know this:
June 3rd letter is written by Camp to Irs regarding the tax exempt organization.
Irs receives letter after that date.
June 29 date Ways and Means mentions in their letter to then Irs head Miller, dated in May, 2013 they have been informed Lerner knew about Camp letter by at least that date, re inquiry about targeting.
July 20 Lerner and Milner discuss in email how her hard drive, after multiple attempts to recover data, is indeed dead and will be sent to cemetery.

coincidence? Highly unlikely.

 

[The Rabbi]

what's immature is believing that because someone hasn't denied something it means they've done it.

who has asked lerner if she was given camp's letter?

She took the 5th! How do you ask someone questions, who has invoked their 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves? All you CAN do is assume that she was aware of Camp's letter and that she was concerned about it. You can easily glean that from simply reading the timeline I provided.

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Idiot. Lerner IS the government. SHe is/was a bureaucrat in the IRS. She was not under criminal investigation but a Congressional inquiry. If what you said were true no one would ever testify in a COngressional investigation. But of all the people to testify, only Lerner has taken the 5th. Hmm, wonder why? What is she hiding? What crimes did she commit?

 

[BlindBoo]

Since the letter was public (Camp published it on his website) it's hard to imagine she didnt see it.
In any case, it is a distinction without a difference. She at least knew about it and likely saw it. And mysteriously within 10 days of the letter going out her hard drive crashes and everything is lost. Wow, coincidence!

and then she entered into a conspiracy with the IRS's IT department to make sure that nothing could be recovered from that hard drive, right?

You know for a fact that didnt happen? No telling what transpired there. But the fact is the emails are missing and the IRS claims they can't recover it and every person here who has worked in IT, along with a bunch of experts, maintains that is bogus

I don't believe they are unrecoverable. Lost maybe. I also believe a deliberate attempt to delete them could also be traced. I think they will eventually surface and like all the other scandals Faux and teh echo-chamber have whined about, will not lead back to the President.

 

[Oldstyle]

for starters?

Camp's letter
Camp Gift Tax Letter

what is purported by your website and what is in the letter do not match.

In what way don't they "match"? Let me guess...you're not STILL trying to maintain that because Camp didn't use the term conservative when he inquired about the 5 conservative donors that had been targeted that it wasn't a letter questioning the IRS about targeting of conservative groups? What would make ANYONE believe for a second that the Republican Head of the Ways & Means was NOT asking about the targeting of conservatives?

for one - the letter wasn't about auditing conservative groups at all. second, unless 5 is an unusually high number of investigations for the IRS I don't see how it can be claimed that the IRS was conducting an usually high number of audits.

OMG...you really are clueless as to what took place. The reason that Camp wrote the letter to the IRS about those 5 is because for the first time the IRS had determined that contributions to non-profit groups could be considered "gifts" and taxed. Camp wanted to know why this had only been applied to conservative donors and demanded to know who was behind it and what their rationale was in making that determination. In doing so he requested all pertinent information from the IRS about how Lois Lerner's Department was targeting who would be audited. The letter is ALL about auditing conservative groups.

 

[The Rabbi]

and then she entered into a conspiracy with the IRS's IT department to make sure that nothing could be recovered from that hard drive, right?

You know for a fact that didnt happen? No telling what transpired there. But the fact is the emails are missing and the IRS claims they can't recover it and every person here who has worked in IT, along with a bunch of experts, maintains that is bogus

I don't believe they are unrecoverable. Lost maybe. I also believe a deliberate attempt to delete them could also be traced. I think they will eventually surface and like all the other scandals Faux and teh echo-chamber have whined about, will not lead back to the President.

You think maybe they're under a file folder somewhere, like Hillary's billing records?

Again, what do you think Lerner was under tremendous pressure to do?

 

[Oldstyle]

what's immature is believing that because someone hasn't denied something it means they've done it.

who has asked lerner if she was given camp's letter?

She took the 5th! How do you ask someone questions, who has invoked their 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves? All you CAN do is assume that she was aware of Camp's letter and that she was concerned about it. You can easily glean that from simply reading the timeline I provided.

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Only one problem with your little scenario, Boo...but it's a HUGE one! Why would Lois Lerner fear "the government" when the people who control the government are progressive Democrats that were thrilled about her targeting conservatives in the first place? Did she REALLY have to fear that Barack Obama, Eric Holder and Harry Reid would go along with an attempt to "railroad" her? That's an amusing concept...

 

[BlindBoo]

When she said she was under pressure, what do you suppose she was under pressure to do?

"assist in the criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active nonprofits"

She never stated that she was under pressure to "do something" about conservative groups.

Where are you getting this from? Because her unit was supposed to approve applications. Are you suggesting she was under tremendous pressure to do her assigned job?

From the link provided. The real question is where did you get your facts about what she said?

 

[BlindBoo]

She took the 5th! How do you ask someone questions, who has invoked their 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves? All you CAN do is assume that she was aware of Camp's letter and that she was concerned about it. You can easily glean that from simply reading the timeline I provided.

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Only one problem with your little scenario, Boo...but it's a HUGE one! Why would Lois Lerner fear "the government" when the people who control the government are progressive Democrats that were thrilled about her targeting conservatives in the first place? Did she REALLY have to fear that Barack Obama, Eric Holder and Harry Reid would go along with an attempt to "railroad" her? That's an amusing concept...

Did you really just ask that?

There are three branches of the government. Neither the Executive or the Senate, which are controlled by the Democrats, are questioning her or citing her for contempt. The House is controlled by Republicans, who apparently whenever they are in power seem to engage in endless investigations and witch hunts rather than pass bills and do other legislative duty things. So I'm pretty sure Ken nailed it.

 

[The Rabbi]

"assist in the criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active nonprofits"

She never stated that she was under pressure to "do something" about conservative groups.

Where are you getting this from? Because her unit was supposed to approve applications. Are you suggesting she was under tremendous pressure to do her assigned job?

From the link provided. The real question is where did you get your facts about what she said?

You provided no link.
I posted the video of her making thoe exact statements.
So, what was she under tremendous pressure to do in the wake of the CU decision?

 

[The Rabbi]

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Only one problem with your little scenario, Boo...but it's a HUGE one! Why would Lois Lerner fear "the government" when the people who control the government are progressive Democrats that were thrilled about her targeting conservatives in the first place? Did she REALLY have to fear that Barack Obama, Eric Holder and Harry Reid would go along with an attempt to "railroad" her? That's an amusing concept...

Did you really just ask that?

There are three branches of the government. Neither the Executive or the Senate, which are controlled by the Democrats, are questioning her or citing her for contempt. The House is controlled by Republicans, who apparently whenever they are in power seem to engage in endless investigations and witch hunts rather than pass bills and do other legislative duty things. So I'm pretty sure Ken nailed it.

Does the House presently have the power to prosecute and jail her? No. So your explanation is bunk.

 

[westwall]

informed is not the same as seeing.

second, if i were Mr. Shulman Lerner would have received communication from me requesting the information requested in the original letter. the original letter would not have been forwarded to her.

but that's just me. generally speaking i don't assume everyone was in on a great big conspiracy and that they met, huddled around a table, with a copy of the letter in the middle and giant magnets off in the corner ready to destroy hard drives with

Since the letter was public (Camp published it on his website) it's hard to imagine she didnt see it.
In any case, it is a distinction without a difference. She at least knew about it and likely saw it. And mysteriously within 10 days of the letter going out her hard drive crashes and everything is lost. Wow, coincidence!

and then she entered into a conspiracy with the IRS's IT department to make sure that nothing could be recovered from that hard drive, right?

Well, the only way you CAN eliminate records from a hard drive is to physically destroy it, so yeah, IT definitely had a hand in it...probably unknowingly though. She wouldn't trust an IT wonk with information so she no doubt had a peon deliver it to IT with instructions to destroy it.

 

[Oldstyle]

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Only one problem with your little scenario, Boo...but it's a HUGE one! Why would Lois Lerner fear "the government" when the people who control the government are progressive Democrats that were thrilled about her targeting conservatives in the first place? Did she REALLY have to fear that Barack Obama, Eric Holder and Harry Reid would go along with an attempt to "railroad" her? That's an amusing concept...

Did you really just ask that?

There are three branches of the government. Neither the Executive or the Senate, which are controlled by the Democrats, are questioning her or citing her for contempt. The House is controlled by Republicans, who apparently whenever they are in power seem to engage in endless investigations and witch hunts rather than pass bills and do other legislative duty things. So I'm pretty sure Ken nailed it.

So what exactly is it that Lerner has to fear from the House if she has the protection of the President, the Attorney General and the Senate Majority Leader? How exactly is it that she needs to fear being railroaded?

Lois Lerner took the 5th not because she was fearful of being railroaded but because she was fearful of having to testify under oath about what she did...and who knew about it.

 

[ogibillm]

Since the letter was public (Camp published it on his website) it's hard to imagine she didnt see it.
In any case, it is a distinction without a difference. She at least knew about it and likely saw it. And mysteriously within 10 days of the letter going out her hard drive crashes and everything is lost. Wow, coincidence!

and then she entered into a conspiracy with the IRS's IT department to make sure that nothing could be recovered from that hard drive, right?

Well, the only way you CAN eliminate records from a hard drive is to physically destroy it, so yeah, IT definitely had a hand in it...probably unknowingly though. She wouldn't trust an IT wonk with information so she no doubt had a peon deliver it to IT with instructions to destroy it.

except we know that's not what happened.

 

[BlindBoo]

She took the 5th! How do you ask someone questions, who has invoked their 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves? All you CAN do is assume that she was aware of Camp's letter and that she was concerned about it. You can easily glean that from simply reading the timeline I provided.

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Idiot. Lerner IS the government. SHe is/was a bureaucrat in the IRS. She was not under criminal investigation but a Congressional inquiry. If what you said were true no one would ever testify in a COngressional investigation. But of all the people to testify, only Lerner has taken the 5th. Hmm, wonder why? What is she hiding? What crimes did she commit?

Sorry champ, Mrs. Lerner is not the Government. "You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you."

Describes Issa to a tee.

 

[The Rabbi]

Only one problem with your little scenario, Boo...but it's a HUGE one! Why would Lois Lerner fear "the government" when the people who control the government are progressive Democrats that were thrilled about her targeting conservatives in the first place? Did she REALLY have to fear that Barack Obama, Eric Holder and Harry Reid would go along with an attempt to "railroad" her? That's an amusing concept...

Did you really just ask that?

There are three branches of the government. Neither the Executive or the Senate, which are controlled by the Democrats, are questioning her or citing her for contempt. The House is controlled by Republicans, who apparently whenever they are in power seem to engage in endless investigations and witch hunts rather than pass bills and do other legislative duty things. So I'm pretty sure Ken nailed it.

So what exactly is it that Lerner has to fear from the House if she has the protection of the President, the Attorney General and the Senate Majority Leader? How exactly is it that she needs to fear being railroaded?

Lois Lerner took the 5th not because she was fearful of being railroaded but because she was fearful of having to testify under oath about what she did...and who knew about it.

Because without any evidence whatsoever he believes that Lerner was in fear of a trumped up investigation by the House Republicans, even though we have plenty of evidence she is in fact guilty.
Amazing that when it comes to supporting Lerner he will offer up opinions with virtually no basis in fact but in discussing opposition to Lerner he insists on carefully verifying every single word.
Hmm, wonder why?

 

[The Rabbi]

You take the Fifth because the government can't be trusted. You take the Fifth because what the truth is, and what the government thinks the truth is, are two very different things. You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you. You take the Fifth because if you answer questions truthfully the government may still decide you are lying and prosecute you for lying.

Pardon me: if you accept the proposition that the government targets organizations for IRS scrutiny because of their political views, and you still say things like "why take the Fifth if you have nothing to hide", then you're either an idiot or a dishonest partisan hack.

A Few Notes On Lois Lerner And The Fifth Amendment | Popehat

Idiot. Lerner IS the government. SHe is/was a bureaucrat in the IRS. She was not under criminal investigation but a Congressional inquiry. If what you said were true no one would ever testify in a COngressional investigation. But of all the people to testify, only Lerner has taken the 5th. Hmm, wonder why? What is she hiding? What crimes did she commit?

Sorry champ, Mrs. Lerner is not the Government. "You take the Fifth because even if you didn't do anything wrong your statements can be used as building blocks in dishonest, or malicious, or politically motivated prosecutions against you."

Describes Issa to a tee.

Please post evidence of any such dishonest malicious or politically motivated prosecution, which the House is unable to do.

 

[ogibillm]

Did you really just ask that?

There are three branches of the government. Neither the Executive or the Senate, which are controlled by the Democrats, are questioning her or citing her for contempt. The House is controlled by Republicans, who apparently whenever they are in power seem to engage in endless investigations and witch hunts rather than pass bills and do other legislative duty things. So I'm pretty sure Ken nailed it.

So what exactly is it that Lerner has to fear from the House if she has the protection of the President, the Attorney General and the Senate Majority Leader? How exactly is it that she needs to fear being railroaded?

Lois Lerner took the 5th not because she was fearful of being railroaded but because she was fearful of having to testify under oath about what she did...and who knew about it.

Because without any evidence whatsoever he believes that Lerner was in fear of a trumped up investigation by the House Republicans, even though we have plenty of evidence she is in fact guilty.
Amazing that when it comes to supporting Lerner he will offer up opinions with virtually no basis in fact but in discussing opposition to Lerner he insists on carefully verifying every single word.
Hmm, wonder why?

that's your problem. you believe your assumptions are evidence.

 

[The Rabbi]

So what exactly is it that Lerner has to fear from the House if she has the protection of the President, the Attorney General and the Senate Majority Leader? How exactly is it that she needs to fear being railroaded?

Lois Lerner took the 5th not because she was fearful of being railroaded but because she was fearful of having to testify under oath about what she did...and who knew about it.

Because without any evidence whatsoever he believes that Lerner was in fear of a trumped up investigation by the House Republicans, even though we have plenty of evidence she is in fact guilty.
Amazing that when it comes to supporting Lerner he will offer up opinions with virtually no basis in fact but in discussing opposition to Lerner he insists on carefully verifying every single word.
Hmm, wonder why?

that's your problem. you believe your assumptions are evidence.

You believe evidence is whatever you say it is. You have zero credibility and are obvioously a shill. Go away.

 

[BlindBoo]

Only one problem with your little scenario, Boo...but it's a HUGE one! Why would Lois Lerner fear "the government" when the people who control the government are progressive Democrats that were thrilled about her targeting conservatives in the first place? Did she REALLY have to fear that Barack Obama, Eric Holder and Harry Reid would go along with an attempt to "railroad" her? That's an amusing concept...

Did you really just ask that?

There are three branches of the government. Neither the Executive or the Senate, which are controlled by the Democrats, are questioning her or citing her for contempt. The House is controlled by Republicans, who apparently whenever they are in power seem to engage in endless investigations and witch hunts rather than pass bills and do other legislative duty things. So I'm pretty sure Ken nailed it.

So what exactly is it that Lerner has to fear from the House if she has the protection of the President, the Attorney General and the Senate Majority Leader? How exactly is it that she needs to fear being railroaded?

Lois Lerner took the 5th not because she was fearful of being railroaded but because she was fearful of having to testify under oath about what she did...and who knew about it.

That is your opinion. What protection from President Obama does she have again, I must have missed that, or the AG or the Senate Majority leader for that matter?

 

[westwall]

and then she entered into a conspiracy with the IRS's IT department to make sure that nothing could be recovered from that hard drive, right?

Well, the only way you CAN eliminate records from a hard drive is to physically destroy it, so yeah, IT definitely had a hand in it...probably unknowingly though. She wouldn't trust an IT wonk with information so she no doubt had a peon deliver it to IT with instructions to destroy it.

except we know that's not what happened.

Actually, as regards ANY actions the IRS has made we really don't know what has happened.