Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[Camp]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Why not keep the governemnt out of the business of forcing employers to pay employees a certain rate?

What business is it of the government what I pay my employees?

Because an overabundance of experience has proven beyond a doubt that at least some employers when given the opportunity will participate in abuses that society, the community and the tax payers end up paying for. That is why businesses, like people, have to follow standards and rules for the privilege of operating in a particular community.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Or we can just eliminate the unconstitutional federal minimum wage law, which has nothing to do with child labor laws, and let states decide whether to have them.

Oh, and we don't need to eliminate laws against murder in order to repeal the federal minimum wage either, in case you were about to ask.

Fixing Standards for the Union is a power delegated to our federal Congress.

We also have a Commerce Clause. We should be providing for the general welfare on a more market friendly basis than we are now.

We should eliminate public sector burdens on Commerce whenever there is recourse to any Thing more market friendly, especially under our current form of Capitalism.

There is no need to burden employers with minimum wage laws if the public sector can simply reserve labor from that market through unemployment compensation that clears our poverty guidelines.

Would the private sector be worse off, if only Persons who actually want to work, apply for a job, especially in Right to Work States, in that alternative.

The "commerce clause" is actually the Interstate Commerce Clause and doesn't give the federal government unlimited power to regulate every business and doesn't even remotely give it the power to set wages.

 

[Jarhead]

Nah, it's not anything like that. But anyway, stop abusing workers and things like this wouldn't even have to be discussed.

Offering a job at free market labor rates is only "abuse" in Moon Bat World.

I know an attorney who just lost a great assistant. She left for a much higher paying opportunity. Having been a recruiter for the bulk of my career, he called me to help him find a replacement. He asked how he can avoid losing such a great assistant.

I told him to pay a much higher salary....great assistants warrant higher salaries than what he was paying.

No one needs to be forced to pay anything. The market will force you in time.

 

[Flash]

[

Because an overabundance of experience has proven beyond a doubt that at least some employers when given the opportunity will participate in abuses that society, the community and the tax payers end up paying for. That is why businesses, like people, have to follow standards and rules for the privilege of operating in a particular community.

I am more concerned about government abuse like forcing to pay wages that more than the free labor market.

With a government you don't have a choice. You either do what the thugs tell you to do or they punish you.

What you call "rules and privileges" is what other people call government abuse.

If I have an abusive employer I always have the option of walking away.

 

[Mr Natural]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Why not keep the governemnt out of the business of forcing employers to pay employees a certain rate?

What business is it of the government what I pay my employees?

Because an overabundance of experience has proven beyond a doubt that at least some employers when given the opportunity will participate in abuses that society, the community and the tax payers end up paying for. That is why businesses, like people, have to follow standards and rules for the privilege of operating in a particular community.

Are you suggesting that maybe, just maybe, some business people might be somewhat less than Saintly?

 

[Jarhead]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Why not keep the governemnt out of the business of forcing employers to pay employees a certain rate?

What business is it of the government what I pay my employees?

Because an overabundance of experience has proven beyond a doubt that at least some employers when given the opportunity will participate in abuses that society, the community and the tax payers end up paying for. That is why businesses, like people, have to follow standards and rules for the privilege of operating in a particular community.

Wrong.

An overabundance of experience in an unskilled job does not require an over abundance of experience to be 100% efficient at that job.

When people take an unskilled labor job, they should realize that it will not be their job forever. They need to use it as a stepping stone.

Curious...if your landscaper told you he had to double his fee because the guy that mows your lawn has been on the job for 20 years and deserves a hearty raise.....

Would you be OK with it?

 

[kiwiman127]

[


"Hate is not a Christian value"-Redfish
Actually the Bible states that hate is equivalent to murder. John 1 3:15.
Reading most of the threads/posts/signatures on USMB, indicates we have very, very few true Christians on board here. but we do have a ton of fake Christians.

I don't think Jesus was guaranteed a minimum wage when He worked as a carpenter. Minimum wage is an invention of confused stupid ass bureaucrats.

Remember that greed and thievery are also sins and anybody that elects Liberal politicians to use the government to steal money on their behalf would not meet the definition of Christian values.

I am not liberal nor am I liberal conservative, what I am is Middle Class.
Regarding the minimum wage, I think it's a good idea as it sets a floor for wages.
In this country, we obviously have a greed issue.
The US for decades had the most prosperous Middle Class in the world, but the US middle class has lost ground to other developed nations. Canada now has the world's most prosperous middle class in the world and other nations are set to also pass the US's middle class. For example, since 2000, Canada's middle class saw a 19.7% increase in the median income, so did Britain's, while Ireland's saw 16.2%, the Netherlands 13.9%, the US saw 6.3%. Why?
Regarding upward mobility, America has fallen behind Europe.
"Economic mobility is becoming a more prominent issue in the 2012 Republican presidential race, and will likely be widely discussed in the general election. The GOP’s remaining top-tier candidates — Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich — have all sounded the alarm about American decline, promising to restore the “American Dream” and make the pursuit of happiness seem like more of a worthwhile endeavor (as Romney as consistently hammered on about recently). But what’s shocking is that rather than focusing on the American Dream these days, politicians and academics seem to be talking more about the European Dream."
The Loss of Upward Mobility in the U.S. TIME.com
Now back to the minimum wage, do you realize that raising the minimum wage helps the middle class, more so than those below the poverty line?
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
CNSNews.com) – Three times as many workers from middle-class families would benefit from President Obama's proposal to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10 an hour as those living in households below the federal poverty line, according to a new study.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor CNS News
If the conservative Cato Institute thinks this, why would any middle class conservative deny this?
Over three decades of flat wages (in Real Dollars/constant dollars), it's no wonder why the American Middle Class is in such trouble.
Having a steadily weakening middle class hurts the US economy. As the graph below shows, as the middle class has weakened, recession have taken longer to recover. Is it all just a coincidence? Now that's doubtful.

Someone is making a killing keeping wages flat as profits have hit record highs, yet wages remain flat. Why don't folks take off their ideological hats and stop to think for themselves and their own future is beyond me.

 

[Jarhead]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Why not keep the governemnt out of the business of forcing employers to pay employees a certain rate?

What business is it of the government what I pay my employees?

Because an overabundance of experience has proven beyond a doubt that at least some employers when given the opportunity will participate in abuses that society, the community and the tax payers end up paying for. That is why businesses, like people, have to follow standards and rules for the privilege of operating in a particular community.

Are you suggesting that maybe, just maybe, some business people might be somewhat less than Saintly?

In any given group of people you will have those that are ethical, those that are unethical, those that are racist, those that are not racist, those that look to capitalize on the naivety of people, those that would never do such a thing.....

So your post is not really relevant.

 

[Flash]

Nah, it's not anything like that. But anyway, stop abusing workers and things like this wouldn't even have to be discussed.

Offering a job at free market labor rates is only "abuse" in Moon Bat World.

I know an attorney who just lost a great assistant. She left for a much higher paying opportunity. Having been a recruiter for the bulk of my career, he called me to help him find a replacement. He asked how he can avoid losing such a great assistant.

I told him to pay a much higher salary....great assistants warrant higher salaries than what he was paying.

No one needs to be forced to pay anything. The market will force you in time.

I once had an employer that didn't pay me as much money I felt I was worth.

I quit and found other work. I didn't go crying to the frigging government to make the employer pay me more money.

It ain't rocket science.

 

[Flash]

[


"Hate is not a Christian value"-Redfish
Actually the Bible states that hate is equivalent to murder. John 1 3:15.
Reading most of the threads/posts/signatures on USMB, indicates we have very, very few true Christians on board here. but we do have a ton of fake Christians.

I don't think Jesus was guaranteed a minimum wage when He worked as a carpenter. Minimum wage is an invention of confused stupid ass bureaucrats.

Remember that greed and thievery are also sins and anybody that elects Liberal politicians to use the government to steal money on their behalf would not meet the definition of Christian values.

I am not liberal nor am I liberal conservative, what I am is Middle Class.
Regarding the minimum wage, I think it's a good idea as it sets a floor for wages.
In this country, we obviously have a greed issue.
The US for decades had the most prosperous Middle Class in the world, but the US middle class has lost ground to other developed nations. Canada now has the world's most prosperous middle class in the world and other nations are set to also pass the US's middle class. For example, since 2000, Canada's middle class saw a 19.7% increase in the median income, so did Britain's, while Ireland's saw 16.2%, the Netherlands 13.9%, the US saw 6.3%. Why?
Regarding upward mobility, America has fallen behind Europe.
"Economic mobility is becoming a more prominent issue in the 2012 Republican presidential race, and will likely be widely discussed in the general election. The GOP’s remaining top-tier candidates — Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich — have all sounded the alarm about American decline, promising to restore the “American Dream” and make the pursuit of happiness seem like more of a worthwhile endeavor (as Romney as consistently hammered on about recently). But what’s shocking is that rather than focusing on the American Dream these days, politicians and academics seem to be talking more about the European Dream."
The Loss of Upward Mobility in the U.S. TIME.com
Now back to the minimum wage, do you realize that raising the minimum wage helps the middle class, more so than those below the poverty line?
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
CNSNews.com) – Three times as many workers from middle-class families would benefit from President Obama's proposal to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10 an hour as those living in households below the federal poverty line, according to a new study.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor CNS News
If the conservative Cato Institute thinks this, why would any middle class conservative deny this?
Over three decades of flat wages (in Real Dollars/constant dollars), it's no wonder why the American Middle Class is in such trouble.
Having a steadily weakening middle class hurts the US economy. As the graph below shows, as the middle class has weakened, recession have taken longer to recover. Is it all just a coincidence? Now that's doubtful.View attachment 38017
Someone is making a killing keeping wages flat as profits have hit record highs, yet wages remain flat. Why don't folks take off their ideological hats and stop to think for themselves and their own future is beyond me.

What helps the middle class is a free market for labor and less government restrictions because then business can prosper and that will always drive wages up.

Because this country has been leaning more towards the Left the Middle Class has suffered. Since Obama has took over average family income has declined.

 

[Jarhead]

Kiwiman127 is correct...but forgets that the "greed issue" is a 2 way street....and the study he cites seems to neglect the same thing.

If you force a minimum wage...the costs of good to the consumer will increase...primarily in the smaller businesses....and the natural greed of Americans will have them purchasing from the larger "national" establishments where they can get lower prices...putting the smaller businesses out....and we all know they are the backbone of the middle class.

 

[danielpalos]

when I was 16 years old, I would walk into a McDonalds and every cashier was one of my friends. I would go to a local restaurant, and the bus boys were my friends. I would walk into the local deli and the serve staff were my friends. I would go to the local department store and the floor staff were my friends.

Those jobs were never meant for those that needed to earn a living wage. Those establishments were able to overcome the high cost of real estate, insurance and overall CoGS, yet still be able to sell a burger for less than a dollar, or a bagel for 25 cents BECAUSE it did not require skilled labor to present the product to the consumer.

The issue is not about how much an establishment should pay its unskilled labor.

The issue is why those with families are taking jobs that dont warrant a salary equal to a "living wage".

It is a social issue. Not an economic issue.

Why do you believe a Natural Rate of Unemployment is a social issue?

I don't.

Then, your entire premise is unsound if you don't solve for a natural rate of unemployment.

 

[Flash]

Kiwiman127 is correct...but forgets that the "greed issue" is a 2 way street....and the study he cites seems to neglect the same thing.

If you force a minimum wage...the costs of good to the consumer will increase...primarily in the smaller businesses....and the natural greed of Americans will have them purchasing from the larger "national" establishments where they can get lower prices...putting the smaller businesses out....and we all know they are the backbone of the middle class.

Correct. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

If the government artificially drives up the cost of labor then somebody has to pay for it.

Government interference like that will always result in unemployment like we see in Seattle or it will drive up the cost of the goods and services and be a tax on the consumers.

 

[danielpalos]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Or we can just eliminate the unconstitutional federal minimum wage law, which has nothing to do with child labor laws, and let states decide whether to have them.

Oh, and we don't need to eliminate laws against murder in order to repeal the federal minimum wage either, in case you were about to ask.

Fixing Standards for the Union is a power delegated to our federal Congress.

We also have a Commerce Clause. We should be providing for the general welfare on a more market friendly basis than we are now.

We should eliminate public sector burdens on Commerce whenever there is recourse to any Thing more market friendly, especially under our current form of Capitalism.

There is no need to burden employers with minimum wage laws if the public sector can simply reserve labor from that market through unemployment compensation that clears our poverty guidelines.

Would the private sector be worse off, if only Persons who actually want to work, apply for a job, especially in Right to Work States, in that alternative.

The "commerce clause" is actually the Interstate Commerce Clause and doesn't give the federal government unlimited power to regulate every business and doesn't even remotely give it the power to set wages.

The point is, that we have a Commerce Clause that implies market friendliness in public policies.

 

[Jarhead]

when I was 16 years old, I would walk into a McDonalds and every cashier was one of my friends. I would go to a local restaurant, and the bus boys were my friends. I would walk into the local deli and the serve staff were my friends. I would go to the local department store and the floor staff were my friends.

Those jobs were never meant for those that needed to earn a living wage. Those establishments were able to overcome the high cost of real estate, insurance and overall CoGS, yet still be able to sell a burger for less than a dollar, or a bagel for 25 cents BECAUSE it did not require skilled labor to present the product to the consumer.

The issue is not about how much an establishment should pay its unskilled labor.

The issue is why those with families are taking jobs that dont warrant a salary equal to a "living wage".

It is a social issue. Not an economic issue.

Why do you believe a Natural Rate of Unemployment is a social issue?

I don't.

Then, your entire premise is unsound if you don't solve for a natural rate of unemployment.

Why? at the end of 2014, there was an estimated 4 Million jobs available to Americans. That is not a sign of NRoU....so I do not understand why that is an issue as it pertains to my comments.

 

[Sonny Clark]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Why not keep the governemnt out of the business of forcing employers to pay employees a certain rate?

What business is it of the government what I pay my employees?

You can't keep government out of business.

 

[Jarhead]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Or we can just eliminate the unconstitutional federal minimum wage law, which has nothing to do with child labor laws, and let states decide whether to have them.

Oh, and we don't need to eliminate laws against murder in order to repeal the federal minimum wage either, in case you were about to ask.

Fixing Standards for the Union is a power delegated to our federal Congress.

We also have a Commerce Clause. We should be providing for the general welfare on a more market friendly basis than we are now.

We should eliminate public sector burdens on Commerce whenever there is recourse to any Thing more market friendly, especially under our current form of Capitalism.

There is no need to burden employers with minimum wage laws if the public sector can simply reserve labor from that market through unemployment compensation that clears our poverty guidelines.

Would the private sector be worse off, if only Persons who actually want to work, apply for a job, especially in Right to Work States, in that alternative.

The "commerce clause" is actually the Interstate Commerce Clause and doesn't give the federal government unlimited power to regulate every business and doesn't even remotely give it the power to set wages.

The point is, that we have a Commerce Clause that implies market friendliness in public policies.

You do not understand the commerce clause if you believe it gives the government reason to dictate salaries.

It has nothing to do with salaries. It has to do with conducting business with the public and its interface acorss state lines.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Or we can just eliminate the unconstitutional federal minimum wage law, which has nothing to do with child labor laws, and let states decide whether to have them.

Oh, and we don't need to eliminate laws against murder in order to repeal the federal minimum wage either, in case you were about to ask.

Fixing Standards for the Union is a power delegated to our federal Congress.

We also have a Commerce Clause. We should be providing for the general welfare on a more market friendly basis than we are now.

We should eliminate public sector burdens on Commerce whenever there is recourse to any Thing more market friendly, especially under our current form of Capitalism.

There is no need to burden employers with minimum wage laws if the public sector can simply reserve labor from that market through unemployment compensation that clears our poverty guidelines.

Would the private sector be worse off, if only Persons who actually want to work, apply for a job, especially in Right to Work States, in that alternative.

The "commerce clause" is actually the Interstate Commerce Clause and doesn't give the federal government unlimited power to regulate every business and doesn't even remotely give it the power to set wages.

The point is, that we have a Commerce Clause that implies market friendliness in public policies.

The Constitution doesn't imply anything. It assigns 18 very specific enumerated powers to the federal government and leaves all other powers to the states and the people respectively. Tyranny finds a foothold in what it argues the Constitution "implies".

 

[Jarhead]

As long as we're getting rid of the minimum wage, why not got all out and eliminate Child Labor Laws also?

KIds will work dirt cheap and be thankful for their daily bowl of gruel.

Why not keep the governemnt out of the business of forcing employers to pay employees a certain rate?

What business is it of the government what I pay my employees?

You can't keep government out of business.

No...not completely....but if government dictates your CoGS, should it be there to take on your losses if you fail?

Do you want the government to bail out every ma and pa company that fails due to government intervention?

 

[paulitician]

Stop being greedy wankers. If y'all weren't so damn greedy, we wouldn't need to be having this discussion. No matter how the greedy ones try to spin it, the bottom line is that they enjoy getting richer off shitting on lowly workers. It's unjust and immoral. And now they're just bitchin & moanin because times may be changing. Oh well, too bad. Life goes on.