BREAKING: White House proposes path to citizenship for 1.8 million people

[toomuchtime_]

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Merit based immigration is simply a guise for reducing legal immigration. The vast number of people seeking to become Americans are described on the statue of liberty, the tired, the poor, the homeless, and those seeking to breath free air.

The Trump plan seeks to bring those to the US that have no desire to make America their home. It is unusually for anyone who are successful to give up their home, friends, family, to travel to a strange land and start over again. It is those that have suffered, fought for survival, and endured extreme hardships that want to become Americans today. These people and their descendants as in the past, are the ones that will build a 21st century America. Doctors, lawyers, and scientists in developed countries are not seeking American citizenship. They come for a jobs and return home.

Baseless nonsense. Merit based immigration was passed by the Democrats in the 1960's when the Democrats controlled the WH and both houses of Congress and the Democrats staunchly supported the law right up until Obama became president, hence their staunch defense of the border wall in 2005. All their rants today are strictly partisan politics.

That was 58 years ago. The immigration problem is far different today than then. In the 1960's Democrats were trying to hold on to the Solid South. When it came to immigration legislation they declared that Northern Europeans are a superior subspecies of the white race. The Nordics were superior to the Alpines, who in turn were superior to the Mediterraneans, and all of them were superior to the Jews and the Asians. Trump seems to be taking a similar course which is big mistake.

You're just flailing and posting nonsense. There is nothing racist about merit based immigration, you ignorant bigot. Just look at all the Asian and Indian doctors and engineers and scientists who came to America because of it. And if you weren't so ignorant, you would realize LBJ's merit based immigration overall was passed in 1965, a year after the Civil Rights bill and the same year as the voting rights bill, so your notion the Democrats were trying to hold on to the South when they passed it may have set a new record for ignorance and bigotry on this forum.

 

[JoeB131]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

I think it's more along the lines of "Only Nixon could go to China".

Obama couldn't get DACA through Congress. Trump might be able to, to finally get this issue off the table.

 

[JoeB131]

A give and take situation?

Is that still allowed?

You mean Trump gave in to political reality that 70% of Americans think DACA is fair?

Meh, no, really doesn't get credit for that.

 

[JoeB131]

This country doesn’t have “generations” left.

Now we officially have an expiration date.

again, some asshole like you said stuff like that about the Italians and Poles 50 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Irish 150 years ago.

And a funny thing happened. The country was just fine.

 

[JoeB131]

So long as we get better border security, I’m good with it.

Except you won't get that.

Again, there's a simple way to solve this problem. Go after the people who hire them.

But that won't be done.

 

[JoeB131]

Why the HELL should the children of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS enjoy the benefits of their parents crimes????

WHY EXACTLY DOES AMERICA NEED MILLIONS MORE POOR PEOPLE ON WELFARE?

Most of these folks have jobs... not on welfare. But never mind.

 

[JoeB131]

TWICE last year I was nearly hit by drunk illegals. TWICE.

Only my fast thinking and awareness saved me.

Send ALL those worthless pieces of shit back home. By ANY means necessary.

How do you know they were drunk or illegals or even Hispanic?

Tell you what, it isn't the drunk drivers that scare me, it's the people who text and drive or otherwise try to use their phones while driving.

 

[JoeB131]

From him wanting to give almost 2 million illegals amnesty.
That's where

Buddy, you got played. Too funny.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not "his" wall.....it's America's wall.....and it's desperately needed to stem the flow of tons of drugs and illegal immigrants DAILY that come into our country across unprotected borders.
Lied? wtf? Maybe he cares about the nation?

sheeeesh.

You see, here's the thing. We wouldn't have drugs or illegals coming over the border is someone on THIS side didn't want them.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't like it, but if we can get an end to chain migration, and much more border security, then we'll see.

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is proposing giving 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship in exchange for $25 billion for his long-promised wall and a host of other strict immigration cuts, according to a framework proposed Thursday.

The outlines of the deal were described by a White House official for staff on Capitol Hill that CNN was given access to on Thursday afternoon.

White House proposes path to citizenship for 1.8 million people - CNNPolitics

I'm sorry, but if you think this would put an end to "chain migration" or any other kind of illegal immigration, you're fooling yourself. Amnesty, which is essentially what this boils down to, hasn't put an end to it in the past, it's not going to do it now.

And for the record, it will be more than 1.8 million people...

Amensty only provides a vast new source of chain migration.

 

[bripat9643]

It's not "his" wall.....it's America's wall.....and it's desperately needed to stem the flow of tons of drugs and illegal immigrants DAILY that come into our country across unprotected borders.
Lied? wtf? Maybe he cares about the nation?

sheeeesh.

You see, here's the thing. We wouldn't have drugs or illegals coming over the border is someone on THIS side didn't want them.

Some people want money in the bank that doesn't belong to them. Apparently you believe we should let them have it.

 

[JoeB131]

Some people want money in the bank that doesn't belong to them. Apparently you believe we should let them have it.

Well, you see, not quite.

In the case of illegals- They want jobs and the people who hire them want to hire them.

In the case of drugs, the people who smuggle drugs want them and people on this side want to use them.

If the case of the bank to fit, the people outside the bank want the money, and the people inside the bank are willing to loan it to them at exorbitant interest rates.

 

[bripat9643]

Some people want money in the bank that doesn't belong to them. Apparently you believe we should let them have it.

Well, you see, not quite.

In the case of illegals- They want jobs and the people who hire them want to hire them.

In the case of drugs, the people who smuggle drugs want them and people on this side want to use them.

If the case of the bank to fit, the people outside the bank want the money, and the people inside the bank are willing to loan it to them at exorbitant interest rates.

Your argument was that you can stop people from getting stuff they want. Your argument failed.

 

[JoeB131]

Your argument was that you can stop people from getting stuff they want. Your argument failed.

No, my argument is that you can't stop people from getting things that people WANT TO GIVE THEM.

That's where you are a little confused, buddy.

You see, you could stem the flow of undocumented workers pretty easily.

Just crack down on the people who hire them. Hard.

And then be prepared to face empty produce shelves when farms go out of business because it's not economical to harvest crops paying Americans who don't want to do those jobs in the first place.

 

[bripat9643]

Your argument was that you can stop people from getting stuff they want. Your argument failed.

No, my argument is that you can't stop people from getting things that people WANT TO GIVE THEM.

Of course you can.

That's where you are a little confused, buddy.

You see, you could stem the flow of undocumented workers pretty easily.

Just crack down on the people who hire them. Hard.

You just said that doesn't work, moron.

And then be prepared to face empty produce shelves when farms go out of business because it's not economical to harvest crops paying Americans who don't want to do those jobs in the first place.

They'll just have to grow something that doesn't require a lot of manual labor, or switch to machines. Wine growers already have a machine that picks grapes, and they are working on machines to do virtually every type of manual labor required on the farm.

 

[JoeB131]

They'll just have to grow something that doesn't require a lot of manual labor, or switch to machines. Wine growers already have a machine that picks grapes, and they are working on machines to do virtually every type of manual labor required on the farm.

Or they can keep doing what they are doing now, which they will.

Buddy, you don't seem to get it. Trump wasn't serious about throwing them out. He never was. He was just sayign that to get bigots like you all worked up so you'd vote for tax cuts for rich people.

 

[SeaGal]

I don't like it, but if we can get an end to chain migration, and much more border security, then we'll see.

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is proposing giving 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship in exchange for $25 billion for his long-promised wall and a host of other strict immigration cuts, according to a framework proposed Thursday.

The outlines of the deal were described by a White House official for staff on Capitol Hill that CNN was given access to on Thursday afternoon.

White House proposes path to citizenship for 1.8 million people - CNNPolitics

Trump's proposal knocked the hot air right out of the Dems soap box.

a few excerpts from the article -

"This is legislation that really represents a bipartisan consensus point. It is extremely generous in terms of the DACA piece and then fulfills all four of the President's priorities," a senior White House official told reporters on Thursday. "This bill is right down the center in terms of public opinion."

"Those eligible will be able to become citizens in 10 to 12 years, Trump said on Wednesday, contingent on meeting work and education requirements the White House is leaving up to Congress to establish."

This is a good thing - so I don't expect the Dems will like it. They will be hard pressed to explain why they'd vote against 1.8 million people they claim to love so dearly. 'Course they could always accuse Trump of being a white supremacist - since Hispanics and Latinos are of the 'white race', after all. Oh, wait...

 

[Flopper]

Not for 25 billion dollars. Half the illegal immigrants in the country came by motor vehicles, plane, and boat. Haven't seen a wall yet that would stop, a plane, boat, or vehicle at a legal boarder crossing. Once illegal immigration adapts as it always has, the wall, will be a 25 billion dollar environmental and economic monument to Trump's stupidity. There are several places near major cities and towns where a wall would be effective. However, in most places a combination of 21 foot fencing or electronic fencing, and increased patrols would be far more effective.

Even without the wall, Trump's tough talk and tough actions have reduced illegal immigration from Mexico by about 2/3 over Obama's last year in office. The wall will reduce it even further, and then there will be a push to get every business to use E-verify for each hire, which will lower it even further. The key to this strategy, remarkably successful so far, is to make the US inhospitable to illegals and so difficult to get into that few will try.

The number of illegal immigrants in the country increased by 80% between 2000 and 2007 where it peaked at about 12 million. Since then it has been falling rather steadily. The source of illegal immigrants has been changing also. The number of illegal Mexican immigrants have fallen sharply and now are no longer the majority. The biggest increase in illegal immigrants since 2005 have come from Asia, Central and South America and these immigrants will not be stopped by a wall.

Back in 2005, it appeared that a wall would be a real solution to stop the hoard of illegals pouring across our southern boarder but not today because most illegal immigrants don't sneak into the US across our southern boarder. They enter through a legal boarder crossing or enter illegally by boat, planes, or across our northern boarder.

Yet the fact remains that during Trump's first year in office illegal immigration across the Mexican border declined by 2/3 over Obama's last year in office and the total was the lowest since 2000. This startling decrease over Obama's efforts was due entirely to the tough talk and tough actions by Trump that persuaded potential illegals that the US would be an inhospitable place for them.

Obama, with the full support of his Party, sent a consistent message to illegals that if they could manage to get across the border and away from it, he would do his best to prevent them from ever being deported unless they committed a serious crime, so no matter how many time they were caught near the border an deported, they had his word that if they made it a little further from the border the next time, he would protect them, in fact, he would encourage states to make them de facto citizens. President Trump, on the other hand sent the message that if they entered the US illegally or entered legally and remained illegally he would hunt them down and deport them so they would never be safe. That's why 2/3 fewer illegals attempted to cross the Mexican border during Trump's first year in office than in Obama's last year in office.

As you point out, not all illegals come across the Mexican border, but in 2016, an estimated 400,000 did successfully cross the border and evade detaction (a slightly larger number were stopped or caught and deported), and this was a 23% increase over 2015, so illegal immigration from Mexico is not an insignificant problem. A smart barrier, such as Israel built on its border with Sinai, will reduce the number of illegals from Mexico to near zero. Before Israel built that barrier, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from east Africa were flooding into Israel. Since the barrier went up, none have successfully crossed the border.

If you make America hospitable for illegals who are already here and you don't spend the money to prevent more from coming, as the Democrats propose, the numbers who come here illegally will increase, but if you make America inhospitable to illegals who are already here, the numbers who try to come illegally will decrease as President Trump has demonstrated. If addition you also build a barrier as effective as the one Israel built the number of illegals who successfully cross the border will be reduced to nearly zero.

There is no comparison between the wall that Trump has proposed and the Israel wall. The wall in Israel covers just over 400 miles compare to over 2000 miles of the US boarder and the Israel Wall is actually only 5% a concrete wall. The rest is fencing. Lastly the terrain is fairly uniform.

There are two big problems with a wall. First being, you can transverse a wall just as easily as a fence. The wall or fence is not what stops intruders. It's those that guard it that make it secure. Secondly, a wall is an ideological barrier as well as a physical one. Today many people see the need for a barrier between the two countries but is that going to be the case in 10, 50, or 100 years? There is also another problem. What happens to this wall when the democrats are in control of government as will happen again as it has in the past? The wall has never been popular with the people and democrats will not support it.

What is needed is intelligent boarder security which could well be a wall in some places, improved fencing in others places, new technology in others places, and increased boarder patrol where needed. As illegal immigration shifts to sea, air, and our northern boarder, so should our security. Building a massive wall on the southern boarder is a huge waste of money and an ideological statement that America seeks to isolate itself behind a wall.

During the Obama administration there was a record number of deportations. However, in the last 2 years, the huge number of children crossing the boarder became a factor. Also, the decrease in the number of arrests at the boarder due to enhanced security also reduced the number of deportations. If you look at Obama's first year compared to Trump, you'll see more deportation in Obama's first year than Trump.

You're just making things up now. No part of Israel's barrier with Sinai is concrete wall, all of it is fence, but it is smart fence that can alert guards if anyone approaches the fence and this is why this fence has prevented anyone to enter Israel from Sinai. While the US barrier will be much longer and parts of the terrain will be more difficult to work on, there is no rational basis for believing it will be any less successful in keeping illegal immigrants out that the Israeli fence. All the prototypes that have been built by companies eager for the contract to build the US barrier, including Israeli and Mexican companies, are very high smart fences with electronics that will instantly alert border guards if anyone approaches it, just as the Israeli barrier does.

A wall is completely ineffective against airplanes, boats, and crossings at boarder stations which is how most illegal immigrants entered the country.

 

[bripat9643]

Even without the wall, Trump's tough talk and tough actions have reduced illegal immigration from Mexico by about 2/3 over Obama's last year in office. The wall will reduce it even further, and then there will be a push to get every business to use E-verify for each hire, which will lower it even further. The key to this strategy, remarkably successful so far, is to make the US inhospitable to illegals and so difficult to get into that few will try.

The number of illegal immigrants in the country increased by 80% between 2000 and 2007 where it peaked at about 12 million. Since then it has been falling rather steadily. The source of illegal immigrants has been changing also. The number of illegal Mexican immigrants have fallen sharply and now are no longer the majority. The biggest increase in illegal immigrants since 2005 have come from Asia, Central and South America and these immigrants will not be stopped by a wall.

Back in 2005, it appeared that a wall would be a real solution to stop the hoard of illegals pouring across our southern boarder but not today because most illegal immigrants don't sneak into the US across our southern boarder. They enter through a legal boarder crossing or enter illegally by boat, planes, or across our northern boarder.

Yet the fact remains that during Trump's first year in office illegal immigration across the Mexican border declined by 2/3 over Obama's last year in office and the total was the lowest since 2000. This startling decrease over Obama's efforts was due entirely to the tough talk and tough actions by Trump that persuaded potential illegals that the US would be an inhospitable place for them.

Obama, with the full support of his Party, sent a consistent message to illegals that if they could manage to get across the border and away from it, he would do his best to prevent them from ever being deported unless they committed a serious crime, so no matter how many time they were caught near the border an deported, they had his word that if they made it a little further from the border the next time, he would protect them, in fact, he would encourage states to make them de facto citizens. President Trump, on the other hand sent the message that if they entered the US illegally or entered legally and remained illegally he would hunt them down and deport them so they would never be safe. That's why 2/3 fewer illegals attempted to cross the Mexican border during Trump's first year in office than in Obama's last year in office.

As you point out, not all illegals come across the Mexican border, but in 2016, an estimated 400,000 did successfully cross the border and evade detaction (a slightly larger number were stopped or caught and deported), and this was a 23% increase over 2015, so illegal immigration from Mexico is not an insignificant problem. A smart barrier, such as Israel built on its border with Sinai, will reduce the number of illegals from Mexico to near zero. Before Israel built that barrier, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from east Africa were flooding into Israel. Since the barrier went up, none have successfully crossed the border.

If you make America hospitable for illegals who are already here and you don't spend the money to prevent more from coming, as the Democrats propose, the numbers who come here illegally will increase, but if you make America inhospitable to illegals who are already here, the numbers who try to come illegally will decrease as President Trump has demonstrated. If addition you also build a barrier as effective as the one Israel built the number of illegals who successfully cross the border will be reduced to nearly zero.

There is no comparison between the wall that Trump has proposed and the Israel wall. The wall in Israel covers just over 400 miles compare to over 2000 miles of the US boarder and the Israel Wall is actually only 5% a concrete wall. The rest is fencing. Lastly the terrain is fairly uniform.

There are two big problems with a wall. First being, you can transverse a wall just as easily as a fence. The wall or fence is not what stops intruders. It's those that guard it that make it secure. Secondly, a wall is an ideological barrier as well as a physical one. Today many people see the need for a barrier between the two countries but is that going to be the case in 10, 50, or 100 years? There is also another problem. What happens to this wall when the democrats are in control of government as will happen again as it has in the past? The wall has never been popular with the people and democrats will not support it.

What is needed is intelligent boarder security which could well be a wall in some places, improved fencing in others places, new technology in others places, and increased boarder patrol where needed. As illegal immigration shifts to sea, air, and our northern boarder, so should our security. Building a massive wall on the southern boarder is a huge waste of money and an ideological statement that America seeks to isolate itself behind a wall.

During the Obama administration there was a record number of deportations. However, in the last 2 years, the huge number of children crossing the boarder became a factor. Also, the decrease in the number of arrests at the boarder due to enhanced security also reduced the number of deportations. If you look at Obama's first year compared to Trump, you'll see more deportation in Obama's first year than Trump.

You're just making things up now. No part of Israel's barrier with Sinai is concrete wall, all of it is fence, but it is smart fence that can alert guards if anyone approaches the fence and this is why this fence has prevented anyone to enter Israel from Sinai. While the US barrier will be much longer and parts of the terrain will be more difficult to work on, there is no rational basis for believing it will be any less successful in keeping illegal immigrants out that the Israeli fence. All the prototypes that have been built by companies eager for the contract to build the US barrier, including Israeli and Mexican companies, are very high smart fences with electronics that will instantly alert border guards if anyone approaches it, just as the Israeli barrier does.

A wall is completely ineffective against airplanes, boats, and crossings at boarder stations which is how most illegal immigrants entered the country.

Few Mexican peasants have a boat or an airplane, and you need a visa to cross at a border station.

 

[Flopper]

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Merit based immigration is simply a guise for reducing legal immigration. The vast number of people seeking to become Americans are described on the statue of liberty, the tired, the poor, the homeless, and those seeking to breath free air.

The Trump plan seeks to bring those to the US that have no desire to make America their home. It is unusually for anyone who are successful to give up their home, friends, family, to travel to a strange land and start over again. It is those that have suffered, fought for survival, and endured extreme hardships that want to become Americans today. These people and their descendants as in the past, are the ones that will build a 21st century America. Doctors, lawyers, and scientists in developed countries are not seeking American citizenship. They come for a jobs and return home.

Baseless nonsense. Merit based immigration was passed by the Democrats in the 1960's when the Democrats controlled the WH and both houses of Congress and the Democrats staunchly supported the law right up until Obama became president, hence their staunch defense of the border wall in 2005. All their rants today are strictly partisan politics.

That was 58 years ago. The immigration problem is far different today than then. In the 1960's Democrats were trying to hold on to the Solid South. When it came to immigration legislation they declared that Northern Europeans are a superior subspecies of the white race. The Nordics were superior to the Alpines, who in turn were superior to the Mediterraneans, and all of them were superior to the Jews and the Asians. Trump seems to be taking a similar course which is big mistake.

You're just flailing and posting nonsense. There is nothing racist about merit based immigration, you ignorant bigot. Just look at all the Asian and Indian doctors and engineers and scientists who came to America because of it. And if you weren't so ignorant, you would realize LBJ's merit based immigration overall was passed in 1965, a year after the Civil Rights bill and the same year as the voting rights bill, so your notion the Democrats were trying to hold on to the South when they passed it may have set a new record for ignorance and bigotry on this forum.

What immigration bill are you referring to? Certainly not the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. This Act repealed the national-origins quotas, in place since the 1920s, which had ensured that immigration to the United States was primarily reserved for European immigrants. The 1921 national-origins quota law was racist from start to finish. The formula in the 1921 act was designed to favor Western and Northern European countries and drastically limit admission of immigrants from Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and Southern and Eastern Europe.

The 1965 immigration bill ended an immigration-admissions policy based on race and ethnicity, and gave rise to large-scale immigration, both legal and unauthorized. This is certainly, not a merit based immigration bill. Both Kennedy and Johnson flirted with merit based immigration in hopes of appeasing the South but the bill that passed was the very opposite of merit based immigration.
Fifty Years On, the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act Continues to Reshape the United States